Hi there.
We've been discussing the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro related modifications since January over here.
There have been a lot of valuable contributions.
To me this new thread is the continuation of that old thread under a new name - the next stage.
Basically many HW and SW related subjects and modifications have been discussed over there and will be copied over here.
My final conclusion with the HifiBerry DAC was that even the heavily modified HifiBerry DAC+ Pro can't compete with my newest - by now already slightly modified - toy the Mamboberry LS dac.
And I can tell you, we tried a lot. Calling that DAC a HifiBerry DAC after all the modifications was all but OK. The stock HB DAC comes with serious space for improvement if best soundquality is the target.
We still made it quite far with the modified DAC. Just to put it into perspective. My modified Hifiberry DAC+ Pro easily outclassed my Fireface UCX interface in terms of soundquality. And another inmate was reporting that e.g the early stock version of Soekris DAC didn't sound any better then his version of HB DAC+ Pro at all.
To cope with the entire subject of getting the best out of this new project, which should be the target of this thread, several areas need to be discussed and addressed at the same time.
1. RPI HW
2. DAC HW
3. RPI SW
4. DAC SW
5. Power supplies
6. Peripherals
The HifiBerry discussion had shown, that you can't really split HW and SW talk if you talk about solutions.
Just to explain where I am at already now:
1. I'm using a Raspberry PI2
The RPI3 I consider a step back. And wouldn't go for it for several reasons.
Pi Zero lacks muscles.
All other ARM boards are no option due to rather poor software/firmware/community support.
2. As DAC, obviously, the MamboBerry LS is my current DAC of choice
3. As OS I use piCoreplayer 3.0, based on TinyCore Linux.
I'm just looking for a lean headless squeezelite streamer.
My server is a powerful Intel Broadwell NUC btw.
I would not run server tasks on a RPI or attach HDDs to it.
People looking for a standalone solution, should go for Volumio, Moode, Archphile, Rune
Many standard RPI SW modifications are applied.
4. The Sabre 9023 DAC does not offer software controls.
However, what needs to be looked at are the DAC and I2S specific kernel drivers.
Inmate CliveM has put together some valuable kernel updates.
But these require a custom kernel for pCp. That's no problem for me.
I have that skill to do that. The question is how to make it available to other people.
5. Currently I use an iFi iPower 5V as power supply.
It's sufficiently powerful to feed both devices. At $50 it puts many linears I have at hand to shame. I also added a real fad cap 47000uf at the end of the cable.
I do have plans to build a 2nd supply. The parts for it I already have on my desk.
6. A lot can be done here.
There are several isolator/reclocker HAT projects ongoing...
The network needs to be isolated...
I might also want to try a GBIT USB dongle on the USB port...
Bottom line. Still a lot to do and discuss.
Looking forward to another hopefully entertaining and successful RPI HAT DAC project.
Cheers
We've been discussing the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro related modifications since January over here.
There have been a lot of valuable contributions.
To me this new thread is the continuation of that old thread under a new name - the next stage.
Basically many HW and SW related subjects and modifications have been discussed over there and will be copied over here.
My final conclusion with the HifiBerry DAC was that even the heavily modified HifiBerry DAC+ Pro can't compete with my newest - by now already slightly modified - toy the Mamboberry LS dac.
And I can tell you, we tried a lot. Calling that DAC a HifiBerry DAC after all the modifications was all but OK. The stock HB DAC comes with serious space for improvement if best soundquality is the target.
We still made it quite far with the modified DAC. Just to put it into perspective. My modified Hifiberry DAC+ Pro easily outclassed my Fireface UCX interface in terms of soundquality. And another inmate was reporting that e.g the early stock version of Soekris DAC didn't sound any better then his version of HB DAC+ Pro at all.
To cope with the entire subject of getting the best out of this new project, which should be the target of this thread, several areas need to be discussed and addressed at the same time.
1. RPI HW
2. DAC HW
3. RPI SW
4. DAC SW
5. Power supplies
6. Peripherals
The HifiBerry discussion had shown, that you can't really split HW and SW talk if you talk about solutions.
Just to explain where I am at already now:
1. I'm using a Raspberry PI2
The RPI3 I consider a step back. And wouldn't go for it for several reasons.
Pi Zero lacks muscles.
All other ARM boards are no option due to rather poor software/firmware/community support.
2. As DAC, obviously, the MamboBerry LS is my current DAC of choice
3. As OS I use piCoreplayer 3.0, based on TinyCore Linux.
I'm just looking for a lean headless squeezelite streamer.
My server is a powerful Intel Broadwell NUC btw.
I would not run server tasks on a RPI or attach HDDs to it.
People looking for a standalone solution, should go for Volumio, Moode, Archphile, Rune
Many standard RPI SW modifications are applied.
4. The Sabre 9023 DAC does not offer software controls.
However, what needs to be looked at are the DAC and I2S specific kernel drivers.
Inmate CliveM has put together some valuable kernel updates.
But these require a custom kernel for pCp. That's no problem for me.
I have that skill to do that. The question is how to make it available to other people.
5. Currently I use an iFi iPower 5V as power supply.
It's sufficiently powerful to feed both devices. At $50 it puts many linears I have at hand to shame. I also added a real fad cap 47000uf at the end of the cable.
I do have plans to build a 2nd supply. The parts for it I already have on my desk.
6. A lot can be done here.
There are several isolator/reclocker HAT projects ongoing...
The network needs to be isolated...
I might also want to try a GBIT USB dongle on the USB port...
Bottom line. Still a lot to do and discuss.
Looking forward to another hopefully entertaining and successful RPI HAT DAC project.
Cheers
Last edited:
I can't tell if John's approach is preferable.
All I can say is that one of my linear supplies, a "Sbooster" with LT1083 and
heavy filtering, settles dust since I have the iFi iPower.
Plug'n play 5V with 1uV noise @50€ is IMO quite competitive.
I'm all ears if somebody can show me a better option.
I btw also have the inductors and some other parts as recommended by John in the workshop. I never used them.
All I can say is that one of my linear supplies, a "Sbooster" with LT1083 and
heavy filtering, settles dust since I have the iFi iPower.
Plug'n play 5V with 1uV noise @50€ is IMO quite competitive.
I'm all ears if somebody can show me a better option.
I btw also have the inductors and some other parts as recommended by John in the workshop. I never used them.
I just hooked up inmates mravlca TPS7A4700 regulator and that connected to 2*LiFePo4 (6,7V) .
The reg can handle both, PI and DAC.
Let see how that develops
.
The reg can handle both, PI and DAC.
Let see how that develops
.First impression.
Linear vs Lipofe4/TPSA4700 each firing everything.
Slight advantage for the battery/reg. I expected a bit more of a difference.
Of course the reg is brand new. Just received it yesterday. It might need some time.
The setup "PI powered with linear" plus the "DAC powered separately with LiFePo4/reg combo"
wins hands down for the time being.
All the differences are not night and day though. (I'm still on my desktop speaker system: Adam A5s )
Cheers
Linear vs Lipofe4/TPSA4700 each firing everything.
Slight advantage for the battery/reg. I expected a bit more of a difference.
Of course the reg is brand new. Just received it yesterday. It might need some time.
The setup "PI powered with linear" plus the "DAC powered separately with LiFePo4/reg combo"
wins hands down for the time being.
All the differences are not night and day though. (I'm still on my desktop speaker system: Adam A5s )
Cheers
Last edited:
A brief update.
I've been working a little on the power supply section.
I added inmates mravlca (what an alias - I don't manage to memorize it ) PI supply.
He makes use of a Meanwell 5 V switcher and cleans it up later on with a TPS7A8300 reg .
He also applies extensive filtering. The Pana FC buffer looks a bit flimsy on the first glance.
That PI supply basically replaced the Sbooster that I've been using during the test.
The MamboBerry DAC I still feed with mravlca's TPS/A4700 reg and the Lifepos.
So far so good.
Turned the stuff on and....
....folks -- it almost knocked me off my chair.
Brutal speed and dynamics and beside that everthing sounded crystal clear. No wonder low level details
get carved out much better.
Great stuff. Didn't expect such a firework.
Let see how things develop.
Enclosed my test-setup.
I'm wondering if the iFi iPower can beat that. I'll let you know.
Ah. And I meanwhile also bypassed the power jack of the MamboBerry DAC. I recommend to put that mod on your to-do list.
Cheers
I've been working a little on the power supply section.
I added inmates mravlca (what an alias - I don't manage to memorize it
) PI supply. He makes use of a Meanwell 5 V switcher and cleans it up later on with a TPS7A8300 reg .
He also applies extensive filtering. The Pana FC buffer looks a bit flimsy on the first glance.
That PI supply basically replaced the Sbooster that I've been using during the test.
The MamboBerry DAC I still feed with mravlca's TPS/A4700 reg and the Lifepos.
So far so good.
Turned the stuff on and....
....folks -- it almost knocked me off my chair.
Brutal speed and dynamics and beside that everthing sounded crystal clear. No wonder low level details
get carved out much better.
Great stuff. Didn't expect such a firework.
Let see how things develop.
Enclosed my test-setup.
I'm wondering if the iFi iPower can beat that. I'll let you know.
Ah. And I meanwhile also bypassed the power jack of the MamboBerry DAC. I recommend to put that mod on your to-do list.
Cheers
Attachments
Last edited:
The little Meanwell RS15-5 SMPS is quite a nice one. There's also a big brother a RS25-5.
Spec says 80mV P2P ripple. That'll be eliminated later on.
The interesting thing is that it is not actually 5V only. The output voltage can be
a little adjusted (5.5-5.6V).
That makes it viable companion for low dropout regs. As a nice side effect much less heat needs to be burnt by the reg.
I'll order me two more for testing.
Spec says 80mV P2P ripple. That'll be eliminated later on.
The interesting thing is that it is not actually 5V only. The output voltage can be
a little adjusted (5.5-5.6V).
That makes it viable companion for low dropout regs. As a nice side effect much less heat needs to be burnt by the reg.
I'll order me two more for testing.
Update.
I've been setting up a new ARCH UX from scratch and added all my mods and squeezelite binary.
The last two days I finally was fiddling around with clivem's kernel with all the bells and whistles required to get the MamboBerry (and other HAT DACs) playing at its best.
With this kernel you basically won't need the HifiBerry driver for the Mamboberry anymore.
Output will look like this:
The configuration in /boot/config.txt will look like this:
Clive hinted me into the right direction to get the kernel going under ARCH. I had to change
one stupid parameter to get going. To get that under control took me two days.
Kudos to Clive for his great contributions and support.
I then applied my stripped down and optimized kernel config.
The result is awesome. Smooth,Smooth,Smooth.
I need to do some more testing regarding higher samplerate support and this clock rate integer division on 48/96khz material.
Keep you posted.
I've been setting up a new ARCH UX from scratch and added all my mods and squeezelite binary.
The last two days I finally was fiddling around with clivem's kernel with all the bells and whistles required to get the MamboBerry (and other HAT DACs) playing at its best.
With this kernel you basically won't need the HifiBerry driver for the Mamboberry anymore.
Output will look like this:
Code:
root@alpha ~ # aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: Mamboberry [Mamboberry], device 0: Mamboberry DAC HiFi es9023-hifi-0 []
Subdevices: 0/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0The configuration in /boot/config.txt will look like this:
Code:
### MamboBerry soundcardsetting 4.4.19-simple kernel provided by Clive Messer
dtoverlay=mamboberry-dacplus-es9023-audio,bclk_ratio_int_div,384kClive hinted me into the right direction to get the kernel going under ARCH. I had to change
one stupid parameter to get going. To get that under control took me two days.
Kudos to Clive for his great contributions and support.
I then applied my stripped down and optimized kernel config.
The result is awesome. Smooth,Smooth,Smooth.
I need to do some more testing regarding higher samplerate support and this clock rate integer division on 48/96khz material.
Keep you posted.
Let me buy a knock-off analyzer quickly. If you have any suggestions please let me know.
For sure I'll PM U the plots.
I never said anything like that.
That's your own interpretation of what have been said.All I'm saying is that I'm more then happy with what I'm achieved so far. And that I consider it a progress from where I've been with the HifiBerry DAC.
It's all relative.
I do not claim anything. I do not sell anything.
I'm talking about the progress on a project I'm running. I share my findings.
I'm more then happy if people share their findings too or contribute with valuable advise.
People who ask for serious measurements plots on 10$ SMPS, 50$ DAC, 40$ computers in a DIY forum havn't understood a thing about serious measurements.
Sorry man. You're living on the wrong planet.
Enjoy.
In the spirit of sharing my findings, rather than get involved in an argument, I can report that I too have a Mamboberry LS and that the sound is for me as good as I've yet heard form a RPi. However, for good sound on the cheap (albeit not quite as cheap as the Rpi) I get significantly better results from a low-cost Android tablet running USB Player Pro.
So it's all about the price and "cheap" stuff isn't worth to get measured/characterized? Okay, your opinion.
Well then, enjoy.
Look.
If we talk "serious" measurements, 99,9% or more of all DIYA inmates won't comply to your expectations.
Estimated 99.9% of all tweaks and projects discussed over here in the last 10 years are based on listening experience.
Standard measurements many times failed to show what was heard.
And even top level audio manufacturers tune by ear.
You just don't spent 10k or more for rather serious equipment to measure a 50$DAC.
Many small manufacturers won't even do that.
All what goes above my 100Mhz scope will be done by ears, common sense or mouth to mouth propaganda.
###
I'd appreciate stop hijacking this thread. If you want to have a general discussion about the deeper sense of serious measurements, I'd like to refer you to the "general" topics section.
If you have "ANYTHING" valuable to contribute - I'm all ears.
Thx.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.