Those are some interesting looking drivers.
What will be blocked is minimal, I agree it will be tricky to come up with way to mount the drivers and have the mounting not make be larger than the driver. 3" is the max. I have been looking around for a 2.5 or a 2 inch driver but I have not found one yet that would fit the budget. Any suggestions on one that could play from 100 on up and is kind to the budget? The drivers I selected are 8 bucks for quantities of 4 or more and that is still a little more than I want to spend. I could always use more drivers to make up the difference in driver size.
What were your impressions when you had the array installed? The drivers you used how was the quality? I will probably try to find someone who can CNC the front mount for the drivers and fiberglass the rest.
My plan to deal with the defroster is to place a some material over the defroster vent and against the windshield and then glass the enclosure then when finished I can pull out the material and the vent will blow into the relief behind the enclosure and across the dash up the windshield.
I am so intrigued with this idea I want to try it out. I just need to find someone to help with the baffle, learn how to fiberglass and pull the trigger on some drivers.
I guess go big or go home.
I will be using hollow bolts to mount it to the dash. and will use that to run the wires into the array.
What will be blocked is minimal, I agree it will be tricky to come up with way to mount the drivers and have the mounting not make be larger than the driver. 3" is the max. I have been looking around for a 2.5 or a 2 inch driver but I have not found one yet that would fit the budget. Any suggestions on one that could play from 100 on up and is kind to the budget? The drivers I selected are 8 bucks for quantities of 4 or more and that is still a little more than I want to spend. I could always use more drivers to make up the difference in driver size.
What were your impressions when you had the array installed? The drivers you used how was the quality? I will probably try to find someone who can CNC the front mount for the drivers and fiberglass the rest.
My plan to deal with the defroster is to place a some material over the defroster vent and against the windshield and then glass the enclosure then when finished I can pull out the material and the vent will blow into the relief behind the enclosure and across the dash up the windshield.
I am so intrigued with this idea I want to try it out. I just need to find someone to help with the baffle, learn how to fiberglass and pull the trigger on some drivers.
I guess go big or go home.
I will be using hollow bolts to mount it to the dash. and will use that to run the wires into the array.
Well I pulled the trigger and ordered 12 Tang Band W3-881SI 3" Speaker, and 2 Vifa BC25SC06-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter. It will look like the following on the dash.MMMTMMM---------MMMTMMM
I am not sure that in the close quarters of the car if this is the best configuration or if the Tweeter should be more to the outside or inside of the array or if it even matters.
I realize not this is not going to be a Bessel Array so when I get a build log going I will be sure to post a link. I have no idea how I am going to cross this thing at all. I have been toying with this idea long enough so I will build it and once I do I guess figure it out. I wonder if porting would be possible.
I don't think the midrange is really as sensitive as the specs make it out to be. I think that is a measured peak, even winisd calculates the sensitivity lower. Other then that, no real beef. I have the midrange @ 180Hz-2Khz 12dB, the tweeter @ 2kHz 12dB and I can draw an eq curve with my DSP to compensate so it was rather easy.
The original cheap drivers were ok for the concept, the tymphany ones were better-bigger coil, lower fs, better ventilation, better VC centering, neo magnets, etc.
Mine was attached to the sides of the car at the A-pillar. Some people might not recommend putting any type of hole in the pillar metal as it could compromise safety. I figured that if I am worried about a-pillar strength, I am probably dead anyway.
It could be two bessels, that is a 7 bessel arrangement. One driver is canceled out and omitted, the tweeter fills that space.
I had the same issue about the defroster, still needed it to function. You also have to think about how it would attach so it does not become a projectile.
3" seemed too big for me even though my raised hood created a dead zone. Making an enclosure that is no bigger then the driver is difficult. Maybe your dash sits lower. Before going all out, maybe test with a temporary baffle wedged between the dash and the window in your driveway. Then if you like it, build the real deal.
Here is a 2.5" compared to a 3" vifa TG9
The new drivers are 5" coaxial/concentric BMS 5CN140
I really need to hear your car. My "one tweeter" thread on Diyma led me to a set up that looks quite similar to yours.
When I finished screwing around with it, I was processing my tracks with ambiophonics, then saving them to an iPod. I know that you are doing your processing in-car, but I'm too lazy to install a PC in my car. In-car processing is certainly superior.
At home I've shuttled back and forth between a conventional setup, and an ambio setup. At the moment, I'm going back to ambio, mostly for cosmetics. (It aint easy hiding two Summas, a 350lb subwoofer and a 40hz tapped horn. And my system is in my bedroom now!)
Anytime you are planning to be in the Chicago area get in touch with me ahead of time. We also had a conversation once about the one tweeter thing on EMSQ before the DIYMA thread.
If you have an iphone or android...there is an APP for that. There is also the black box version called the ambio4you dsp.
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I've done both, I could give you my advice but I'd rather see someone determine it for themselves otherwise what do you learn? Nothing better then learning first hand. Build a temporary setup in the home that is a mockup of the car. Sit offset and move the tweeters around to the two positions and compare.
Popular Electronics' "Sweet Sixteen", 1961, an early variation on this concept?
My Experience with Column Systems (this is the Roger Russell who worked for McIntosh)
A "super" version of the above - gotta love that tan grill cloth!:
21 5" drivers (includes a video of them playing music - they still work after all these years)
My Experience with Column Systems (this is the Roger Russell who worked for McIntosh)
A "super" version of the above - gotta love that tan grill cloth!:
21 5" drivers (includes a video of them playing music - they still work after all these years)
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I started playing with the L-XR circuit back in the 1970's, using four opamps. If you just add an L+R center speaker to a conventional stereo setup, you get very little separation (allegedly 3dB worth). If you add in a stereo L-XR circuit to the two side channels, you increase the separation by probably another 6dB, at which point it's an effective 3 channel reproduction IMO. I'm building up a fancy version of this right now for use in my five channel surround sound system. The front pair of signals will be differentiated from the side speaker signals by an external digital delay/reverb (Lexicon MX400). Each will have independent fully adjustable L-XR circuits. My center speaker signal will also have the option of limited dynamic range expansion (3dB p-p) and an option of center return to side speakers, which can be used with a stereo synthesizing reverb. That way the center signal doesn't have to be so dry of reverb in comparison to the side speakers. With relatively dry source material, I believe that this could be an issue.
An all in one speaker cabinet using this technique should be a great idea for those who have a crowded room or just prefer that all the sound comes out of one location. My four opamps are all buffers or mixers. There's no active steering of any kind anywhere, except as an option on my center speaker signal. I don't necessarily recommend the center steering. It's more of a research experiment. It's hard to do dynamic range expansion without audible artifacts, hence the very limited range, and I'm doing a few other tricks on that. The L-XR topology is very similar to the Carver Holographic Generator without the 125uS delay sections. I make the crosscoupled inverted signal continuously variable so I can fully optimize it for the given physical setup and room acoustic interaction.
An all in one speaker cabinet using this technique should be a great idea for those who have a crowded room or just prefer that all the sound comes out of one location. My four opamps are all buffers or mixers. There's no active steering of any kind anywhere, except as an option on my center speaker signal. I don't necessarily recommend the center steering. It's more of a research experiment. It's hard to do dynamic range expansion without audible artifacts, hence the very limited range, and I'm doing a few other tricks on that. The L-XR topology is very similar to the Carver Holographic Generator without the 125uS delay sections. I make the crosscoupled inverted signal continuously variable so I can fully optimize it for the given physical setup and room acoustic interaction.
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Check out some of the info on Unity horns and Quad ESLs... Although they don't look like it, they're both arrays. If you get things set up right, you have high frequencies at the center, ringed by midrange, then ringed by woofers.
Also, David Smith from Snell is on this forum, and he did some similar stuff with his expanding array.
I think it's kind of interesting how all these guys attacked the same problem from a different angle, but converged on a solution that was quite similar.
You mean something like this?:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/200040-stereophonic-sound-single-loudspeaker.html
I noticed that when a signal consisting a portion of L - R, or the 'ambiance' signal, is fired sideways and let to propagate in lateral direction to the listening position, it generates a spaciousness in such amount itself that extra surround speakers may not be needed.
Basically what I'm doing at the moment is a 2 channel vector steering integrated in one box. It works very well considering it's simplicity !
- Elias
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