Greetings to you all.
This is my first thread so please be gentle and kind.lol
Im fed up of lifting my 4 x 18" mini scoops around and I want to down size my van to a estate car.The other problem is relying on friends to help load up. The idea is to build 4 x 12" subs that can play close to full or mini scoops as possible also a one man lift.
The drivers I have in mind are the Ciare 12 sw.1000w and driving them is not an issue. I play mostly Reggae roots music, so they need to play quite low with good spl. is there such a cab?
Regards
This is my first thread so please be gentle and kind.lol
Im fed up of lifting my 4 x 18" mini scoops around and I want to down size my van to a estate car.The other problem is relying on friends to help load up. The idea is to build 4 x 12" subs that can play close to full or mini scoops as possible also a one man lift.
The drivers I have in mind are the Ciare 12 sw.1000w and driving them is not an issue. I play mostly Reggae roots music, so they need to play quite low with good spl. is there such a cab?
Regards
Ahh.. the holy trinity of subs.. loud, low, and small. Unfortunately unless you have access to some divine intervention you can only get 2 of the those 3 qualities in any 1 design.. .
That said I suspect you may have been carrying around extra size for no good reason because below 100hz only a super scooper is louder than a plain old reflex box. So the obvious solution would be to simply build reflex boxes for the drivers, boxes could be half the size of the scoops or less. Those Ciare drivers will definitely go low but you're gonna have to load them in a horn of some type to get any SPL out of them, in a reflex design you would need a wall of them to get the same SPL as your scoops.
P.S. Exactly what design are those mini scoops.. .just so we have a reference.
That said I suspect you may have been carrying around extra size for no good reason because below 100hz only a super scooper is louder than a plain old reflex box. So the obvious solution would be to simply build reflex boxes for the drivers, boxes could be half the size of the scoops or less. Those Ciare drivers will definitely go low but you're gonna have to load them in a horn of some type to get any SPL out of them, in a reflex design you would need a wall of them to get the same SPL as your scoops.
P.S. Exactly what design are those mini scoops.. .just so we have a reference.
Last edited:
Thanks
@Conanski
Thanks for your input. The holy trinity of all subs? that would be something.
I most certainly need them to play lower then 100hz specially if I'm playing Reggae music.
My mini scoops are my own design and build, Soon as I get some free time, I shall be testing my new hybrid scoop.In the mean time someone somewhere must have a good design that can deliver using a 12" driver?
@Conanski
Thanks for your input. The holy trinity of all subs? that would be something.
I most certainly need them to play lower then 100hz specially if I'm playing Reggae music.
My mini scoops are my own design and build, Soon as I get some free time, I shall be testing my new hybrid scoop.In the mean time someone somewhere must have a good design that can deliver using a 12" driver?
Why would you imagine that?, as conanski said you can 'pick any two of three', but can't get all three.
Aha. in that case I will have to go with low and spl.. flat around the 40-60 is good foe reggae music i think?
You guys know the Startec SBH? cab? awesome cab,probably the best I heard.
I wanted to scale it down to use a 12" but my computer skills is total rubbish.i just wouldn't know where to start. any help on that would be greatly appreciated. I think 4 of those mouth 2 mouth would do the job.
You guys know the Startec SBH? cab? awesome cab,probably the best I heard.
I wanted to scale it down to use a 12" but my computer skills is total rubbish.i just wouldn't know where to start. any help on that would be greatly appreciated. I think 4 of those mouth 2 mouth would do the job.
Well just how big are your "mini" scoops? Overall dimensions and weight? Are they the size of a Yorkville LS800? There are lots of designs around that use smaller drivers so it's entirely possible you can end up with something that will be a lot lighter and easier to move, just got to know what to aim for.
Karlson K15 (loaded w 12") comes to mind, though just barely a one man lift.
Really, these do work great, but the lifting is going to want handles for sure.
Not so absurdly huge you can't get hands around it, but lots of wood inside.
I think you can get even smaller if you are willing to sacrifice the entire upper
end bandwidth to gain sub efficiency. The trinity gets you, but bandwidth is a
4th player we sometimes forget. Perhaps a tapped horn or keystone sub?
Really, these do work great, but the lifting is going to want handles for sure.
Not so absurdly huge you can't get hands around it, but lots of wood inside.
I think you can get even smaller if you are willing to sacrifice the entire upper
end bandwidth to gain sub efficiency. The trinity gets you, but bandwidth is a
4th player we sometimes forget. Perhaps a tapped horn or keystone sub?
Attachments
Last edited:
That's the worst approach you can take and probably the reason you're looking for new subs again. Horns don't scale down, they are designed around a certain driver and a certain response goal, and if you make the horn smaller it won't deliver the same response anymore.. meaning it won't go as deep or as loud. I see a lot of people asking about scaling down one design or another and scoops in particular and I don't think they realize you can't get the same results from a smaller box.
Thanks guys.
firstly.. my mini scoops are 1000mm x 850mm x 565mm loaded with RCF drivers.
it's not so much that it's heavy, it's the bulk and I can only get 4 of these in my van. As I said before, the van needs to go and I'm moving over to an estate car.
On the Ciare website. they have a small 12" reflex cab as follows
Sensitivity 1W/1m : 90 dB
Net volume Vb : 40 dmc
Tuning Frequency Fb : 37 Hz
Frequency range : 20 ÷ 500 Hz
what can I expect with 4 of these stacked together? I will also look into those cabs you guys mentioned. I just have a cue how to use any of those computer programs to sim or calculate. I don't even know how to read the graphs you guys put up.lol.
here's a design I came up with for an 18". I call it a scoop hybrid. what do you guys think? This has been built and ready for testing. im just having problems with tunning the ports at the front.
any help is much appreciated.
firstly.. my mini scoops are 1000mm x 850mm x 565mm loaded with RCF drivers.
it's not so much that it's heavy, it's the bulk and I can only get 4 of these in my van. As I said before, the van needs to go and I'm moving over to an estate car.
On the Ciare website. they have a small 12" reflex cab as follows
Sensitivity 1W/1m : 90 dB
Net volume Vb : 40 dmc
Tuning Frequency Fb : 37 Hz
Frequency range : 20 ÷ 500 Hz
what can I expect with 4 of these stacked together? I will also look into those cabs you guys mentioned. I just have a cue how to use any of those computer programs to sim or calculate. I don't even know how to read the graphs you guys put up.lol.
here's a design I came up with for an 18". I call it a scoop hybrid. what do you guys think? This has been built and ready for testing. im just having problems with tunning the ports at the front.
any help is much appreciated.
What model RCF?
They probably won't even get as loud as 1 of your scoops.
A couple of SS15s loaded with some 4015lfs is good for a lot of noise. Even better would be a quad of THAM 12s. All would fit in an estate car. Both are efficient (sensitive/loud) and flat to 50hz. For your needs, I think flat to 50 should be plenty of extension.
Do you have a special reason to go with the Ciare driver? Picking a driver and then designing a box is fine if you're doing something simple like sealed or ported. For front loaded, tapped horns, and scoops, you really want to start with a finished box design and then load it with a driver that meets the needs of the horn. As mentioned, horns and scoops (which are a kind of horn) don't scale. You'll have to decide what size you're looking at and find an appropriate design. For a one man lift, I'm thinking SS15 and THAM 15 territory is where you should be looking. How important is budget in this?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170771-single-sheet-th-challenge.html
Martinsson's Blog -
Do you have a special reason to go with the Ciare driver? Picking a driver and then designing a box is fine if you're doing something simple like sealed or ported. For front loaded, tapped horns, and scoops, you really want to start with a finished box design and then load it with a driver that meets the needs of the horn. As mentioned, horns and scoops (which are a kind of horn) don't scale. You'll have to decide what size you're looking at and find an appropriate design. For a one man lift, I'm thinking SS15 and THAM 15 territory is where you should be looking. How important is budget in this?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170771-single-sheet-th-challenge.html
Martinsson's Blog -
Last edited:
@ zettairyouiki
Thanks for your inputs.. I'm in the process of building the THAM 12. I will just build one and check how it sounds before going forward to building more if any.
I'm not familiar with the SS15. I will have to look into that.
the plan is to build 4 x small as possible bass cabs that can bang, really bang.
playing low is very important due to me playing mostly Reggae dub music. I certainly don't want to sacrifice the lows for spl..
I can get good deals on the Ciare drivers, nothing more.im open to all other drivers.
Thanks for your inputs.. I'm in the process of building the THAM 12. I will just build one and check how it sounds before going forward to building more if any.
I'm not familiar with the SS15. I will have to look into that.
the plan is to build 4 x small as possible bass cabs that can bang, really bang.
playing low is very important due to me playing mostly Reggae dub music. I certainly don't want to sacrifice the lows for spl..
I can get good deals on the Ciare drivers, nothing more.im open to all other drivers.
The "holy trinity" subwoofer can be achieved only with boundary loading. With 1/8 space loading I have 2 Kappalite 3012lf reflex boxes predicted 135dB 1m to 35Hz.
I have heard there is a subwoofer called the punisher subwoofer that uses that Ciare driver (it's not a good driver for PA bass reflex as it's too 'heavy cone' and power hungry, so some sort of compact horn is much better if you have 4).
Or if I was on the BFM forum I'd say "Just build a titan 39!" (or Tuba 30/45 for more lows but bigger). I have no experience with the above cabs.
I have heard there is a subwoofer called the punisher subwoofer that uses that Ciare driver (it's not a good driver for PA bass reflex as it's too 'heavy cone' and power hungry, so some sort of compact horn is much better if you have 4).
Or if I was on the BFM forum I'd say "Just build a titan 39!" (or Tuba 30/45 for more lows but bigger). I have no experience with the above cabs.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.