I am planning a 3 way speaker with: Purifi 10 inch aluminium bass with 2 passive radiators, the Bliesma M142 giant dome tweeter
and a Bliesma T34A/B in the tweeter. Has anyone already realised a similar project and would like to exchange ideas?
and a Bliesma T34A/B in the tweeter. Has anyone already realised a similar project and would like to exchange ideas?
Hi paco, this sounds like an ambitious project with SOTA divers hard to beat, I'm sure the result will sound great if implemented well!
But I would also mention that M142 + T34 is much overdimensioned for "just" one Purify 10". Or the single 10" is undersized, dependent on the viewpoint...
Even with a M74 + T25 the single 10" woofer will be the limiting SPL factor. M74 can throw out 115dB peak SPL and can keep up with 2x12" good longstrokers easily as some projects here have show. I see no advantage of M142+T34 against M74+T25 other than SPL headroom, and maybe 1 octave lower xover frequency to the woofer if relevant.
I've just decided against to take a M74A as mid between 2x10" in CB and T25A tweeter I already own because I realized that I have no use of the available headroom and better save the money; bought a MR13TX now instead for half the price.
P.S.: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...th-a-modern-3-midrange-3way-prototype.408882/
But I would also mention that M142 + T34 is much overdimensioned for "just" one Purify 10". Or the single 10" is undersized, dependent on the viewpoint...
Even with a M74 + T25 the single 10" woofer will be the limiting SPL factor. M74 can throw out 115dB peak SPL and can keep up with 2x12" good longstrokers easily as some projects here have show. I see no advantage of M142+T34 against M74+T25 other than SPL headroom, and maybe 1 octave lower xover frequency to the woofer if relevant.
I've just decided against to take a M74A as mid between 2x10" in CB and T25A tweeter I already own because I realized that I have no use of the available headroom and better save the money; bought a MR13TX now instead for half the price.
P.S.: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...th-a-modern-3-midrange-3way-prototype.408882/
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Hello Kwesi, If I were to go for the M74, the T25 would also be a choice. I realise that a normal 10 cm woofer can be a bit small for the M142, but after hearing it loud at a friend's house in combination with 2 passive cones, it sounds more like a well-made 12 cm woofer to me. I would prefer to use 2 basses or a 15/18 woofer, but the speakers are in the living room and can't be very big. my choice for the M142 is because it goes down to 200 Hz. And because its efficiency, large cone area and high QMS promise great liveliness and dynamics. I don't like many 3-way speakers because the mid-range driver only starts from 400-600 hz, and the important range of fundamental tone/lower mid-range is then carried by a heavy and usually slow bass. If I hear voices/instruments that then sound in the transition range of both drivers, this is not ideal for my ears.
Mmh understand; if you like dynamic headroom in the lower mids and upper bass I would think of two Purify 10" in CB instead of one with 2x passive driver. The latter only work in the low bass, two 10" in parallel give good punch by double cone area than can keep better up with the M174 when it takes over. Group delay is also lower, by scarifying a bit SPL capability in the low bass. Well, everything is a tradeoff...
Hello Kwesi, you think that 2x10er in 2x30 Liter would be better than 1x10er + 2PR or 1x10er BR in 1x 60 Liter?
If the volume of the enclosure doesn´t matter, 2x10er + 4xPR would be delicious.
A friend of me heard this combination, the bass performance must be outstanding:
https://audioxpress.com/article/pure-acourate-sound-project-greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts
If the volume of the enclosure doesn´t matter, 2x10er + 4xPR would be delicious.
A friend of me heard this combination, the bass performance must be outstanding:
https://audioxpress.com/article/pure-acourate-sound-project-greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts
I just built a speaker with MW16TX and T25B for a customer. These Textreme membranes are great and "get out of the way" - but you don't get the sound of a 3" hard membrane midrange.
@paco de colonia I did an (active) crossover 2nd order at 2,5kHz with the T25B in this project - and got a perfect acoustical 4th order crossover point at about 1,8kHz! THD at 90dBSpl is in the 0,1-0,2% range in the crossover zone.
As you are SPL limited with your 10" anyways the T25B will have the best resolution and off axis behaviour and is probably to prefer over the T34B - until you really need a lower crossover frequency.
I have a lot of experience with these Blisma drivers and I'm located in Austria - write a message if you want discuss more details.
p.s.: If you have the chance to EQ or use an active DSP crossover - I would for sure recommend 2 closed 10"! How big is your listening room? Can you freely position your speakers? And yes, the Purify 10" should give the power of a good 12". That's why I use 12" for half the price ;-) but the smaller footprint of 10" has it's benefits.
Btw - these speakers go loud, the tweeter had no sweat to achieve these levels with music at 1,5m distance. It's crossed over at 2,5kHz electrically, no overload.
Since you are SPL-limited with your 10’ speaker anyway, the T25B will have the best resolution and off-axis behaviour and is probably preferable to the T34B - until you really need a lower Hi lamJF, I had already used the Bliesma T34A in a 2-way speaker with a Purifi 6.5 ptt and passive cone. That sounded really good. I think the T34 sounds more ‘grown-up’ to my ears and, in the right combination, reproduces the bass and extension of a concert hall better. Only in the super high frequency range does the T25 sound wider. I see this as the only (minor) disadvantage. Purifi announced a new tweeter a year ago, which supposedly can be cut off very early (1-1.2khz). I wonder whether it can even be ‘married’ to the Purifi Alu 10 in a 2-way speaker with a very low crossover frequency, as Karl Heinz Fink did in his ‘Borg’ with a modified AMT. What do you think? We can also write to each other in German per PN if you like...
I heard the T34A compared to T25B and for sure prefered the T25B - in the right system.
But a 6,5" can already benefit from the low cross over frequency of the T34 which could be a bigger benefit to the over all system. T34A is an unreal experience - the off axis sound compared to the membrane size ... but top end of the T25B is more natural and better.
You describe 2 complete different systems here - both can be great.
A 2-way with 10" + tweeter should get the tweeter in a waveguide and have some directivity. I use such a system (8"+1"+Horn) in my living room cinema - long sitting distance and sub optimal acoustics.
3-way with small midrange and no waveguide can have a very even off axis performance - but it's wide radiation. I use this in my listening room - close distance and very strong dampened.
The 2nd system gives more details and precision - especially in the right room.
The 1st system gives the most you can have in a "normal" room.
But a 6,5" can already benefit from the low cross over frequency of the T34 which could be a bigger benefit to the over all system. T34A is an unreal experience - the off axis sound compared to the membrane size ... but top end of the T25B is more natural and better.
You describe 2 complete different systems here - both can be great.
A 2-way with 10" + tweeter should get the tweeter in a waveguide and have some directivity. I use such a system (8"+1"+Horn) in my living room cinema - long sitting distance and sub optimal acoustics.
3-way with small midrange and no waveguide can have a very even off axis performance - but it's wide radiation. I use this in my listening room - close distance and very strong dampened.
The 2nd system gives more details and precision - especially in the right room.
The 1st system gives the most you can have in a "normal" room.
I am enjoying following this discussion and the ideas being shared as I am now feeling the pressure to buy my next drivers during the time before the prices potentially go up to get them into the US...
I know that @profiguy likes to cross the T34s up higher for the ultimate in power handling, in which case the M74 makes sense, but I continue to wonder about the M142A crossing to the T34 lower (I have T34Bs) rather than the M74 series. I wonder if anyone has strong feelings about these options (I know they aren't necessarily options presented by the OP, but are perhaps somewhat in context in the sense of an ultimate/expensive build using Bliesma and Purifi). Feel free to ignore if too far OT. And wow does that Pure Accurate Sound project look fantastic. Form factor is wide baffle with generous roundovers (a la Grimm LS1).
I know that @profiguy likes to cross the T34s up higher for the ultimate in power handling, in which case the M74 makes sense, but I continue to wonder about the M142A crossing to the T34 lower (I have T34Bs) rather than the M74 series. I wonder if anyone has strong feelings about these options (I know they aren't necessarily options presented by the OP, but are perhaps somewhat in context in the sense of an ultimate/expensive build using Bliesma and Purifi). Feel free to ignore if too far OT. And wow does that Pure Accurate Sound project look fantastic. Form factor is wide baffle with generous roundovers (a la Grimm LS1).
- T34B in waveguide with PTT8, XO ~1.3khz or adjacent (where directivities match). The next option certainly has more bass dynamics, but I also have a multisub setup., so the next may be overkill, though the siren song of the M142A is hard to ignore.
- T34B, I presume not in waveguide, M142A, 12" or 15", XO ~ 250Hz, ~ 1.3Khz
‘T34B, I assume not in waveguide, M142A, 12‘ or 15’, XO ~ 250Hz, ~ 1.3Khz . ‘ That sounds like a good plan, but in our living room=listening room the bass cabinet should not be more than 50-60 litres in size. I had to promise my wife that ;-) A suitable 12‘ or 15’ bass driver is then difficult to find...
Bliesmas will benefit from waveguide. WG does not have to be the same size as midrange, it is good if it is actually smaller. I will promote @HiFiCompass 104mm waveguides he did for t34 and t25 tweeters, it is excellent work.
Yes, excellent point. One of the discouraging things about pairing the Bliesma's with other companies woofers/midranges is the decreased sensitivity of everything else. This is where 2x10" Purifis feels a little better (or 2x 10'' or 12" of a different brand, e.g. 2xSBA SB34s). The only other option re. the sensitivity aspect seems to be a large ported box with a professional woofer (could be great, but in my case have decided to only do sealed).
In @HiFiCompass review of the PTT10 he modeled a closed box (though with gain at the low end) as:
In my (rudimentary) modeling, it seemed (without low frequency boost) that 24L sealed gave a Qt of 0.5. My thinking was that I could boost from there (or not in the context of multiple subs):
So perhaps you could meet your volume goals.
Bill
In @HiFiCompass review of the PTT10 he modeled a closed box (though with gain at the low end) as:
In my (rudimentary) modeling, it seemed (without low frequency boost) that 24L sealed gave a Qt of 0.5. My thinking was that I could boost from there (or not in the context of multiple subs):
So perhaps you could meet your volume goals.
Bill
You could build the big brother of this:
MW19TX and T25B in Waveguide here. Both should be able to do about the same SPL level (used in home cinema with subwoofer) and waveguide should fit off axis sound together. Now go WO24TX and T34B.
WO24TX has half the membrane weight as Purify 10". THD is really low but still 6dB higher as Purifi.
8R Version needs 36L closed with Qtc of 0,7- you should be able to put 2 of the WO24TX-4 in 60L closed.
FA253 with the 100W for the tweeter (has a little less noise) and one amp per WO24 in a 2.5 way system.
THIS would be a really cool speaker - 2(.5)way to the max. 😎 And more living room friendly as the purify 10" ...
p.s.: Is a 60L tower speaker ok or must it be bookshelf size?
MW19TX and T25B in Waveguide here. Both should be able to do about the same SPL level (used in home cinema with subwoofer) and waveguide should fit off axis sound together. Now go WO24TX and T34B.
WO24TX has half the membrane weight as Purify 10". THD is really low but still 6dB higher as Purifi.
8R Version needs 36L closed with Qtc of 0,7- you should be able to put 2 of the WO24TX-4 in 60L closed.
FA253 with the 100W for the tweeter (has a little less noise) and one amp per WO24 in a 2.5 way system.
THIS would be a really cool speaker - 2(.5)way to the max. 😎 And more living room friendly as the purify 10" ...
p.s.: Is a 60L tower speaker ok or must it be bookshelf size?
Wow. 2.5 way to the max indeed.
So pair T25B in WG with ~7 1/2" driver, T34B in WG with 9 1/2" driver. Very nice.
I note that you cut out the WG to allow closer C-C spacing. Could you tell us the XO frequency and C-C distance?
So pair T25B in WG with ~7 1/2" driver, T34B in WG with 9 1/2" driver. Very nice.
I note that you cut out the WG to allow closer C-C spacing. Could you tell us the XO frequency and C-C distance?
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Hello Bill,
Xo should be around 1200hz, C-C is the distance would be variable with the combination Purifi 10s + Bliesma T34 ruch putting back the tweeter in the seperate cabinet.
Xo should be around 1200hz, C-C is the distance would be variable with the combination Purifi 10s + Bliesma T34 ruch putting back the tweeter in the seperate cabinet.