Hi,
I just got my active 3 way system built. I'm using a Fountek NeoCD 3.0 tweeter, an Eminence alphalite 6A mid and 4 8 in woofers from the NHT surplus. It's my first attempt at an active system, and is relatively 'budged' as far as driver selection, to get a feel of an active system, and learn along the way.
I'm using a CX3400 for crossover duties right now, frequencies are approximately 350Hz and 3500 Hz, still listening and dialing them in.
My question is regarding amplifier choice. I have an option between the Elan M660 and the Rotel RMB1066, both are available used for the same price, so it is not really a question of cost. I have the ELAN M660 hooked up currently, and i'm wondering if i should swap it for the RMB1066.
Is there any recommendations between the 2, sound quality or performance wise? One is digital class T, one is class AB.
I also have a separate NAD 2600, that i've been thinking about hooking it up for the bass channels, if that may be a better improvement for the bass, and also take the load of the amp power supply to clean up the mid and highs.
Thanks for the suggestions!
The specs are as follows.
ELAN M660
Audio Section
Power Rating - RMS
Output Power (6 CH Stereo) . . . . . . . 75WRMS @ 4 Ohms/Ch
Output Power (6 CH Stereo) . . . . . . . 60WRMS @ 8 Ohms/Ch
Frequency Response . 20Hz to 20kHz, +/-0.3dB into 8 Ohms
Full Power Bandwidth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10Hz to 50kHz
Signal-To-Noise . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 102dB (A-weighted)
Channel Separation . . . . .>70dB (channel to channel @1kHz)
Total Harmonic Distortion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < .04%
Intermodulation Distortion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < 0.1%
Voltage Gain (AV) . . . . . . . . Continuously Variable from 0 - 24
Slew Rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 20V/microsecond
Input Impedance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49k Ohms
Input Sensitivity . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.790VRMS (45W @8 Ohms)
Connectors
Input/Loop Outputs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Gold RCA Phono
Speaker Output . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Five-Way Binding Posts
Power
AC Power Requirements . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 VAC, 600 Watts
Current Draw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5A@120 VAC
Power Supply . . . . Ultra-High Efficiency Toroidal Transformer
Triggers
Remote Trigger Inputs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 to 24 Volts AC/DC
Trigger Loop Output . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +12VDC @0.1A
Dimensions/Weight
Dimensions (Shelf-Mount) . . . . . . . . . 17”(W) x 1¾”(H) x 15”(D)
43.18cm(W) x 4.46cm(H) x 38.10cm(D)
Rack Face . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .19”(W) X 1¾”(H)
48.26cm(W) x 4.46cm(H)
Weight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22lbs/48kg
Rotel RMB1066
Continuous Power Output Stereo Mode 60 watts/ch into 8 ohms
(20-20 kHz, < 0.03% THD)
Continuous Power Output Bridged Mono Mode 150 watts/ch into 8 ohms
(20-20 kHz, < 0.1% THD)
Total Harmonic Distortion < 0.03%
(20Hz-20kHz, 8 ohms)
Intermodulation Distortion < 0.03%
(60 Hz : 7 kHz, 4:1)
Frequency Response (± 1 dB) 15Hz–100kHz
Damping Factor (20-20,000 Hz, 8 ohms) 150
Speaker Impedance (combined load)
Stereo mode: 4 ohms minimum
Bridged Mono mode: 8 ohms minimum
Signal to Noise Ratio (IHF A network) 116 dB
Input Impedance 22 k ohms
Input Sensitivity 1.5 volt
Auto Turn On Threshold Level (if activated) 10 mV input signal
Auto Turn Off Delay Time (if activated) 5 minutes with no signal
Power Requirements
USA: 115 Volts, 60 Hz
Europe: 230 Volts, 50 Hz
Power Consumption 700 Watts
Dimensions (W x H x D) 430 x 121 x 435 mm
1615/16 x 43/4 x 171/8 in
Weight (net) 13.5 kg, 29.75 lb.
I just got my active 3 way system built. I'm using a Fountek NeoCD 3.0 tweeter, an Eminence alphalite 6A mid and 4 8 in woofers from the NHT surplus. It's my first attempt at an active system, and is relatively 'budged' as far as driver selection, to get a feel of an active system, and learn along the way.
I'm using a CX3400 for crossover duties right now, frequencies are approximately 350Hz and 3500 Hz, still listening and dialing them in.
My question is regarding amplifier choice. I have an option between the Elan M660 and the Rotel RMB1066, both are available used for the same price, so it is not really a question of cost. I have the ELAN M660 hooked up currently, and i'm wondering if i should swap it for the RMB1066.
Is there any recommendations between the 2, sound quality or performance wise? One is digital class T, one is class AB.
I also have a separate NAD 2600, that i've been thinking about hooking it up for the bass channels, if that may be a better improvement for the bass, and also take the load of the amp power supply to clean up the mid and highs.
Thanks for the suggestions!
The specs are as follows.
ELAN M660
Audio Section
Power Rating - RMS
Output Power (6 CH Stereo) . . . . . . . 75WRMS @ 4 Ohms/Ch
Output Power (6 CH Stereo) . . . . . . . 60WRMS @ 8 Ohms/Ch
Frequency Response . 20Hz to 20kHz, +/-0.3dB into 8 Ohms
Full Power Bandwidth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10Hz to 50kHz
Signal-To-Noise . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 102dB (A-weighted)
Channel Separation . . . . .>70dB (channel to channel @1kHz)
Total Harmonic Distortion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < .04%
Intermodulation Distortion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < 0.1%
Voltage Gain (AV) . . . . . . . . Continuously Variable from 0 - 24
Slew Rate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 20V/microsecond
Input Impedance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49k Ohms
Input Sensitivity . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.790VRMS (45W @8 Ohms)
Connectors
Input/Loop Outputs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Gold RCA Phono
Speaker Output . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Five-Way Binding Posts
Power
AC Power Requirements . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 VAC, 600 Watts
Current Draw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5A@120 VAC
Power Supply . . . . Ultra-High Efficiency Toroidal Transformer
Triggers
Remote Trigger Inputs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 to 24 Volts AC/DC
Trigger Loop Output . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +12VDC @0.1A
Dimensions/Weight
Dimensions (Shelf-Mount) . . . . . . . . . 17”(W) x 1¾”(H) x 15”(D)
43.18cm(W) x 4.46cm(H) x 38.10cm(D)
Rack Face . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .19”(W) X 1¾”(H)
48.26cm(W) x 4.46cm(H)
Weight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22lbs/48kg
Rotel RMB1066
Continuous Power Output Stereo Mode 60 watts/ch into 8 ohms
(20-20 kHz, < 0.03% THD)
Continuous Power Output Bridged Mono Mode 150 watts/ch into 8 ohms
(20-20 kHz, < 0.1% THD)
Total Harmonic Distortion < 0.03%
(20Hz-20kHz, 8 ohms)
Intermodulation Distortion < 0.03%
(60 Hz : 7 kHz, 4:1)
Frequency Response (± 1 dB) 15Hz–100kHz
Damping Factor (20-20,000 Hz, 8 ohms) 150
Speaker Impedance (combined load)
Stereo mode: 4 ohms minimum
Bridged Mono mode: 8 ohms minimum
Signal to Noise Ratio (IHF A network) 116 dB
Input Impedance 22 k ohms
Input Sensitivity 1.5 volt
Auto Turn On Threshold Level (if activated) 10 mV input signal
Auto Turn Off Delay Time (if activated) 5 minutes with no signal
Power Requirements
USA: 115 Volts, 60 Hz
Europe: 230 Volts, 50 Hz
Power Consumption 700 Watts
Dimensions (W x H x D) 430 x 121 x 435 mm
1615/16 x 43/4 x 171/8 in
Weight (net) 13.5 kg, 29.75 lb.
I would go with the Rotel. The Elan is for a less discriminating audience (home automation), and the increase of only 25% power from 8 to 4 ohms is indicative of a pretty small power supply - not a good sign.
cheers,
Tal
cheers,
Tal
I can't comment on the Rotel, but you could get another Elan for cheap and bridge each channel for double the watts. I get better punch with mine bridged. (I'm about to upgrade to 3-way active as well). I rather like the Elan sound. Not quite the warmth or depth as my tube integrated, but these are cheap clean watts.
Thanks for the emotiva suggestion, i would love to try them, but unfortunately they are not currently available to me 'used' currently.
I also noted the Elan specs for 4 to 8 ohm, and am a bit concerned with the power supply. Can the M660 be bridged? I have not found any instructions, it is not stated as bridgable in the manual. Also, bridging increases the amp voltage gain, but not the current capability, and tends to increase the distortion of the output.
I have Rotel power amps before, and noted them for their accurate sound and tight bass.
One option available with the 1066 is to run the tweeters with a pair of 60w channels, bridge the remaining 4 channels into 2 channels for 150wpc for each mid. The THD does increase from 0.03% to 0.1% by bridging. And then run the bass from the 150wpc NAD 2600.
Also the 1066 doesn't publish output for 4 ohm, but inferring from the 150wpc bridged, it is equivalent 75wpc into 4 ohms, similar to the ELAN.
To be honest, 60wpc is plenty for an active system, especially with 94db/w drivers, so i may just use 4 channels from the Rotel for mid and tweeter (less THD without bridging), and leave the bass for the separate NAD 2600?
It seems like both Rotel and ELAN have similar watts and power supply, it is down to the subjective quality of the sound quality and performance of each amp. The person who sold me the ELAN claims that the ELAN sounds much better than the Rotel.
What do you guys think? Anyone compared both directly?
I also noted the Elan specs for 4 to 8 ohm, and am a bit concerned with the power supply. Can the M660 be bridged? I have not found any instructions, it is not stated as bridgable in the manual. Also, bridging increases the amp voltage gain, but not the current capability, and tends to increase the distortion of the output.
I have Rotel power amps before, and noted them for their accurate sound and tight bass.
One option available with the 1066 is to run the tweeters with a pair of 60w channels, bridge the remaining 4 channels into 2 channels for 150wpc for each mid. The THD does increase from 0.03% to 0.1% by bridging. And then run the bass from the 150wpc NAD 2600.
Also the 1066 doesn't publish output for 4 ohm, but inferring from the 150wpc bridged, it is equivalent 75wpc into 4 ohms, similar to the ELAN.
To be honest, 60wpc is plenty for an active system, especially with 94db/w drivers, so i may just use 4 channels from the Rotel for mid and tweeter (less THD without bridging), and leave the bass for the separate NAD 2600?
It seems like both Rotel and ELAN have similar watts and power supply, it is down to the subjective quality of the sound quality and performance of each amp. The person who sold me the ELAN claims that the ELAN sounds much better than the Rotel.
What do you guys think? Anyone compared both directly?
Erm Are those multi channel amps Monoblock designs?
Or just a bunch of discrete amp cards (hopefully 🙂 sucking from the Same inadequate to needs PS puddle.. .. My first guess 🙂
Thereby eliminating a serious chunk of the benefits of the Active setup.
Or just a bunch of discrete amp cards (hopefully 🙂 sucking from the Same inadequate to needs PS puddle.. .. My first guess 🙂
Thereby eliminating a serious chunk of the benefits of the Active setup.
The z660 allows you to bridge channels. There are some small push buttons on the back (covered by a sticker) The manual is available here: http://rickgratz.com/examples/z-im-z660.pdf
The toroid on the z660 is pretty massive, so I'm not sure about the "inadequate" part. That's all relative, I suppose. The benefit is surely that you can get 6 independent channels for about $100 on the used market. We can't all afford six tube monoblocks😉
The toroid on the z660 is pretty massive, so I'm not sure about the "inadequate" part. That's all relative, I suppose. The benefit is surely that you can get 6 independent channels for about $100 on the used market. We can't all afford six tube monoblocks😉
I just looked up the ELAN Z660. It says 120V 440W max, while the one i have, the ELAN M660 is 120V 600W max, while the Rotel 1066 is 120V 700W. I guess this suggests the Rotel has the best power supply, all else being equal?
Is the Class T amp topology on the ELAN able to squeeze more out of its 600W, being over 85% efficient, ie 0.85*600= 510 actual watts to the speakers, while the class AB Rotel maxing out at 50% efficiency, ie only 0.5*700 = 350 actual watts to the speakers. Is that how it works? That means the ELAN still has more raw horsepower.
Is the Class T amp topology on the ELAN able to squeeze more out of its 600W, being over 85% efficient, ie 0.85*600= 510 actual watts to the speakers, while the class AB Rotel maxing out at 50% efficiency, ie only 0.5*700 = 350 actual watts to the speakers. Is that how it works? That means the ELAN still has more raw horsepower.
I can't comment on the ELAN, but I've now got 3 Rmb1066's and I'm very pleased with their performance.
I use one to run my sb acoustics satori drivers active, with 4 channels bridged for the mid bass and 2 channels for the tweeters.
I've also in the same configuration used one to power the mid and treble of my active 3 way pa speakers. After a night of abuse at a wedding I DJ'd it was bairly even warm. By comparison 2 similarly powerful (125w) Cambridge audio power amps I have also used were too hot to touch!
I use one to run my sb acoustics satori drivers active, with 4 channels bridged for the mid bass and 2 channels for the tweeters.
I've also in the same configuration used one to power the mid and treble of my active 3 way pa speakers. After a night of abuse at a wedding I DJ'd it was bairly even warm. By comparison 2 similarly powerful (125w) Cambridge audio power amps I have also used were too hot to touch!
I recently took delivery of a Holton Precision Audio 6 channel amp, custom built by Holton himself. His separate components and fully built amps are getting good reveiws.
My rig is Azura 340hz horn with JBL 2445, mid bass is Eminence Kappalite 12 inch, bass is EV 18 inch. I use two units of MiniDSP.
Andrew.
High End Audio MOSFET Amplifiers Amplifier Modules DIY Amp Modules DIY Audio Amp Kit Audio Modules
My rig is Azura 340hz horn with JBL 2445, mid bass is Eminence Kappalite 12 inch, bass is EV 18 inch. I use two units of MiniDSP.
Andrew.
High End Audio MOSFET Amplifiers Amplifier Modules DIY Amp Modules DIY Audio Amp Kit Audio Modules
Attachments
looking to save a few dollars I have a Rotel RB-976MKII using it on midrange and works really well
Parts Express sells a four channel tripath amp for something like $40. That's what I'm using for my next project, along with a miniDSP. You'll need to add a case and a power supply, getting the total cost for four channels up to about $120 or so.
There are other "whole house" amps to look at.
The Elan one (which, BTW, could be thought of as a "Gainclone" because it uses the chip amp 47 Labs made famous) is an option, though I've not used it. Xantech also has one that looks like a bloated old-school car amp. IIRC 40Wx6/8Ω. That's what I use as my bench amp.
For a more expensive alternative - $2000 MSRP I think - Sonance has an amp with four Icepower 125ASX2 modules that would be ideal for a 3 way system (though mine IS noisier than my reference ATI AT2007 or my old Sherwood A-965). They also had an older version that was not load invariant (it used Tripath modules I think) that might be available cheap and for a multiway active system (though not a system with passive crossovers, because not load invariant) no worse than the newer version.
And then there's the option of an old 7-channel AVR with multichannel analog inputs. Those are often quite cheap used, and the amps more than adequate for a multiway system.
The Elan one (which, BTW, could be thought of as a "Gainclone" because it uses the chip amp 47 Labs made famous) is an option, though I've not used it. Xantech also has one that looks like a bloated old-school car amp. IIRC 40Wx6/8Ω. That's what I use as my bench amp.
For a more expensive alternative - $2000 MSRP I think - Sonance has an amp with four Icepower 125ASX2 modules that would be ideal for a 3 way system (though mine IS noisier than my reference ATI AT2007 or my old Sherwood A-965). They also had an older version that was not load invariant (it used Tripath modules I think) that might be available cheap and for a multiway active system (though not a system with passive crossovers, because not load invariant) no worse than the newer version.
And then there's the option of an old 7-channel AVR with multichannel analog inputs. Those are often quite cheap used, and the amps more than adequate for a multiway system.
UCD3xMP modules
Hi,
Has anyone used or heard those UCD3xMP modules ?
https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=4930
Hi,
Has anyone used or heard those UCD3xMP modules ?
https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=4930
I have a Savant 8125. It is the same as the Lexicon DD8, which is the same as the Crown CT8150. I picked mine up used for under $400 on ebay. There are many of all the aforementioned models available all the time. It offers 8 channels of 125W @8Ohms per channel of class-D power. It's small, light, and apparently bullet proof. I use it in a 3 way active system (I have dual woofers that each get one channel). I find no fault at all to its sound.
In as much as I believe that a good 1985 amp is a perfect match in quality to the world's greatest speaker today.....*
Very convenient to find an old A/V amp that supports 4-channel DVD output. If needing 6 amps and the woofers need more power, then add a stereo amp.
BTW, sometimes a riddle how to control volume in hybrid system with DSP. I made a volume control n a little box using ganged Bourne pots (in my case, just 4 in the gang) to control the inputs to the amps. Works great.
B.
* I really believe 1970 but that would seem exaggerated to some people
Very convenient to find an old A/V amp that supports 4-channel DVD output. If needing 6 amps and the woofers need more power, then add a stereo amp.
BTW, sometimes a riddle how to control volume in hybrid system with DSP. I made a volume control n a little box using ganged Bourne pots (in my case, just 4 in the gang) to control the inputs to the amps. Works great.
B.
* I really believe 1970 but that would seem exaggerated to some people
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