Hi to All and good morning
If I understand well a good home theater system should provide high SPLs with very low distortion
The natural answer to me should be a pa system
Anyone doing this?
Moreover if you happen to play classical music on it are you pleased enough?
Thanks a lot for any kind and welcomed advice
Kind regards Gino
If I understand well a good home theater system should provide high SPLs with very low distortion
The natural answer to me should be a pa system
Anyone doing this?
Moreover if you happen to play classical music on it are you pleased enough?
Thanks a lot for any kind and welcomed advice
Kind regards Gino
There are three problems with that:
- The PA subwoofers usually don't get that low.
- Many PA speakers are optimized for greater listening distances and are a lot bigger than HT ones.
- Most PA amps have (more or less) noisy fans.
PA speakers optimized for natively (ie, not DSP corrected) response as flat as a serious hi-fi listening system cost BIG BUCKS. Start looking around 2 grand a cabinet. $399 specials just have too much wrong with them, and even doubling that will get you something “a little rough” for hi-fi but fine for a band. The lows can be covered as 25Hz subs do exist. They’re HUGE and pricey, and will need DSP for proper in-room use.
Fanless hi-fi amps can be used, as the SPLs necessary with that type of speaker can be obtained in the home with 200 watts per channel. No real need to add a zero, and if you DO you can’t hear the fan. Fan on demand like the older Yamaha P series can be a viable option. Ive only kicked it on a couple times, and thats at unsustainable SPLs with 91dB/W speakers.
Fanless hi-fi amps can be used, as the SPLs necessary with that type of speaker can be obtained in the home with 200 watts per channel. No real need to add a zero, and if you DO you can’t hear the fan. Fan on demand like the older Yamaha P series can be a viable option. Ive only kicked it on a couple times, and thats at unsustainable SPLs with 91dB/W speakers.
You can build flat response PA tops for a lot less with real HiFi qualities.
Well, usually you need a lot less power for HT with PA speakers (except the sub(s)). And you can build amps yourself or buy amp boards from eBay, Ali etc, but decoding the audio is an issue though, it may be you need a HT receiver anyway.
Hi ! thank you very much for your kind and very helpful reply 3 good reasons to abandon the idea
I had to ask because there is a guy on Youtube using an EV PA system for home hifi
I love low THD and noise And also i understand that these systems have controlled emission I have problems to treat acoustically the room
The systems more interesting to me are those with a line array above a bass cabinet
Like this one i listened in a dance room I was shocked by the power and cleaness of sound
Hi ! thanks a lot for the very valuable advice and kind support
I did not know about the response issue at all I read that Klipsch speakers were born for PA duties
And maybe someone took them home
I wonder if some PA concepts like the line array could be used as a based for a DIY home speaker
I like the idea of a slim column above the bass box I am thinking to scale everything down taking a commercial speaker as a reference
I already have a bass box I just need some little wideband drivers for the column
i understand that when little power is used fans can be slowed down with a dc to dc step down converter
The fan speed depends on the supply voltage i guess Someone has already done that
i think that the main issue could be the bass range
Maybe a solution like a powered sub working up to 200 plus a PA line array ?
You don't have to abandon your idea but you have to do something for it, you mainly have to build your own speakers to get what you want. If you have problems with room treatment, PA speakers usually perform better in such enviroments because they have a much better controlled dispersion.
It's also possible to build these but it's much more difficult. They have specialized drivers and enclosure with angles and small dimensions which need to be precise and you need a DSP. If you haven't developed speakers yet, that's a really big task.
These speakers can sound very good but their dispersion is usually very wide and don't have a well controlled dispersion, so room treatment will be important for these too.
Why don't you rent such a system for a weekend and try if you like it? That costs something but after that you can definitely say if it's worth for you to build or to buy it.
PA type line arrays are really too BIG, even for a large home. No, those little Bose things don’t count as they are not actually real line sources. You get wonky low midrange thats hard to correct, too, because the mains just can’t get low enough. A line of 8”/1” that’s 12 or 16 feet tall is probably TOO MUCH, unless you are talking about hotel ballroom size. Then it would be damn nice. Won’t work well in a 20x30x9 space, and anything even bigger even less so. Those work well in art houses, although I have heard them hit their limits with Tori Amos performing through them. She was able to make poor 1” CDs scream in pain, but only on one song. Unmistakeable sound of diaphragms hitting the phase plug. HT use doesn’t have that much midrange.
Thanks again Yes absolutely I was experimenting putting felts around mid and tweeter to narrow the H and V emission of my speakers
Reflections are a nightmare I always listen in the sweet spot of course
So now you gave me a very good reason
Yes the renting idea is very sane I have been impressed by a RCF system A line array of wideband drivers above a sub
I see in their catalogue some cheaper scaled down models that keeps the same concept
There are also some hifi pasive speakers very similar Like the Infinity Prelude MTS
There are plenty of home audio enthusiasts that are fans of high efficiency PA speakers components and speaker systems, in many cases they use the raw driver components in custom enclosures and add high quality home audio electronics, these things can get quite loud with just a few watts in a typical home listening environment so for most there is no need to PA levels of amplification. There are exceptions of course.
There are also plenty of quite good sounding self powered PA speaker systems on the market these days, even some cheap models sound fairly impressive at first but the more you analyze them the more you begin to realize they are like an old school sonic maximizer and everything sounds the same. These stick speakers systems have been around for a while now, they do sound pretty good but they're aren't better... just differennt. If you like a system that produces good imaging then this is the wrong choice to make, all those drivers covering the same spectrum produces more SPL but the resulting comb filtering smears everything in time, so again potentially impressive at first blush but you may start to miss the clean accuracy of a simple point source system.
There are also plenty of quite good sounding self powered PA speaker systems on the market these days, even some cheap models sound fairly impressive at first but the more you analyze them the more you begin to realize they are like an old school sonic maximizer and everything sounds the same. These stick speakers systems have been around for a while now, they do sound pretty good but they're aren't better... just differennt. If you like a system that produces good imaging then this is the wrong choice to make, all those drivers covering the same spectrum produces more SPL but the resulting comb filtering smears everything in time, so again potentially impressive at first blush but you may start to miss the clean accuracy of a simple point source system.
I have started a journey of using home built Danley SH50s (voiced for hifi) as left and right channel.
I have 2 Tapped horn subs (also originally a Danley idea). These can shake the room do explosions etc.
I am really enjoying the sound these Multi Entry Horns give for music reproduction.
The tricky part is intergrating with a cinema setup and retaining the hi fi set up. DSP PEQs and timings too give that nice freq resp and coherent phase.
Buying a Trinnov at $$$$$ is currently off the table.
I read somewhere that both Bill Gates and George Lucas use(d) Danley Sound Labs horns in their home cinemas - hehe.
If you have a big enough room and can build, full on MEH surround system with multiple subs placed would be great.
I have 2 Tapped horn subs (also originally a Danley idea). These can shake the room do explosions etc.
I am really enjoying the sound these Multi Entry Horns give for music reproduction.
The tricky part is intergrating with a cinema setup and retaining the hi fi set up. DSP PEQs and timings too give that nice freq resp and coherent phase.
Buying a Trinnov at $$$$$ is currently off the table.
I read somewhere that both Bill Gates and George Lucas use(d) Danley Sound Labs horns in their home cinemas - hehe.
If you have a big enough room and can build, full on MEH surround system with multiple subs placed would be great.
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Hi ! thanks a lot for the very kind and helpful advice It is my indeed my case
I love the idea of driving a large-engined sedan with the accelerator at minimum in complete relaxation
That means extremely low THD in this case
Thanka a lot again But analyzing how these systems are made consisting of a column of wide-band speakers above a box with a woofer, the temptation of the DIY route is very strong
Then I feel that amplified systems can have noise problems while passive ones much less
Not only that I believe that if a concept is healthy it can also be scalable And in fact I see in the various catalogs models that follow the same concept but with different components and different levels of performance and obviously price
I'm thinking for example of a column of 3" Chinese drivers above a decent 10 or 12" woofer
Then I add an inductor on the woofer and a capacitor on the column and off i go
Ok maybe something more elaborate but i guess you get the idea
Monoamping passive two ways
Hi ! thank you very much for your kind and very interesting reply
i should have said at the beginning that my room is not that big And the PA systems i have in mind are those consisting of a bass cabinet with a line array of small full-range speakers on top.
I heard one live and was impressed by the power and cleanliness of the sound.
As i am a little mad i am thinking to cannibalize speakers like these one
https://www.edifier.com/us/p/computer-speakers/r12u
the drivers should cost about 10 USD a piece
I am using them for my pc and they sound good
I did not measure them I know nothing about their fs for instance
Maybe they can work from 400Hz up
These should be 3" Maybe 4" is the optimum size ?
I think a PA system is primarily designed for live /recorded music which means fairly high SPLs, speakers designed for (more or less) stereo operation and a fairly wide spread sound field in the venue (club, theaters, auditoriums). For home theater use, the objective is several individual channels and speaker drivers in the room creating more localized audio point sources within the sound stage . Have a look at a Dolby Atmos system for example. Dolby Atmos guide
So a basic system mght have 5.1 (5 speaker channels + 1 sub), but more recent systems will have 9.1.
Are you looking to build out a pro grade ''sound stage '' ? Here`s a look art one of my friends studios who mixes post production audio
King Soundworks Stage 3
So generally you are looking more at good quality studio monitors, at least a six channel decoder, and the required individual amplifiers for each channel , or go with powered monitors. An AV receiver amplifier with decoding for 5.1 or better is probably the most straight forward way of doing this. Cheers
So a basic system mght have 5.1 (5 speaker channels + 1 sub), but more recent systems will have 9.1.
Are you looking to build out a pro grade ''sound stage '' ? Here`s a look art one of my friends studios who mixes post production audio
King Soundworks Stage 3
So generally you are looking more at good quality studio monitors, at least a six channel decoder, and the required individual amplifiers for each channel , or go with powered monitors. An AV receiver amplifier with decoding for 5.1 or better is probably the most straight forward way of doing this. Cheers
Hi thank you for the very kind and valuable reply
When you say
We have all one goal in life
Keep thd and noise down and frequency response flat
I would have not the least problem to use a digital eq to flatten a little bumpy freq response
The sistems i have seen in movie theaters are PA
it's just a matter of scaling them down
The worst nightmare of an audiophile is a pa system that sounds better than his very expensive High end system
He could get mad
When you say
You mean that this kind of systems will sound bad at lower SPLs ?
We have all one goal in life
Keep thd and noise down and frequency response flat
I would have not the least problem to use a digital eq to flatten a little bumpy freq response
The sistems i have seen in movie theaters are PA
it's just a matter of scaling them down
The worst nightmare of an audiophile is a pa system that sounds better than his very expensive High end system
He could get mad
Some audiophiles build speakers with pro-sound drivers.
Not necessarily, some yes and some no. My old band's PA system was built up for outdoor events and small auditoriums, and we did need to send the main audio through an electronic crossover to split mid/highs and bass/sub. Ran two 18 inch subwoofers (Huge) on 3000W Peavey rack mount amp, plus two Crest Audio 900W amps for mid/highs through 6 trapezoid cabinets. It sounded great outdoors out to the next village over! But in a small room, like driving a race car in a parking lot. Way too much SPL potential for what is really needed.
Home theater you can use good quality studio speakers for the left and right (which will be the main ones for listening to music), and smaller but still good quality for the middle, and rear channels, plus the sub. Yes scaling down but keeping the quality of the sound is important. Cheers
Hi ! thank you very much for your very interesting information
the fateful question is Are they right to do so?
I would say yes based on what I'm reading lately
In the sense that certain PA drivers have excellent performance when used in their optimal range and absolutely accessible prices
I'm looking at the Faital Pro catalog for example
Moreover when a concept is sound it could also provide excellent result when scaled down
I think that the main requirements could be freq response and SPL at a certain distance with a specified distortion
I see that this is mentioned only for PA and never for high end hifi
A friend of mine was watching a movie on his stereo system At the first heavy bass the coil came out of the air gap
110mm woofers cant provide great pressure
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I built my speakers with older JBL drivers and I'm very happy with the sound. I like a system that sounds like I'm there.
To me, I don't really care about imaging. What I want are dynamics, and pro-sound speakers can do that without huge amplifiers in the home environment. It's the dynamics which make me feel like I'm there in the music venue.
Also, with my setup, I don't have to sit in a certain spot to enjoy the music. The music fills the room and I can be anywhere, like in real life.
To me, I don't really care about imaging. What I want are dynamics, and pro-sound speakers can do that without huge amplifiers in the home environment. It's the dynamics which make me feel like I'm there in the music venue.
Also, with my setup, I don't have to sit in a certain spot to enjoy the music. The music fills the room and I can be anywhere, like in real life.
