Now that most of you have had a chance to disassemble, figure out, and modify the Sonic Impact T-amp, what are your long-term thoughts and assesments?
Does it live up to its initial promise? Are you as happy with it today as when you first listened to it? Do you use it as your main amp?
For those who replaced another amp with the T-amp, is the T-amp still doing the honors, or have you switched back? Inquiring minds want to know!
Best,
KT
Does it live up to its initial promise? Are you as happy with it today as when you first listened to it? Do you use it as your main amp?
For those who replaced another amp with the T-amp, is the T-amp still doing the honors, or have you switched back? Inquiring minds want to know!
Best,
KT
KT:
I modded several T-Amps (to varying degrees), built a 41hz Amp 3 and Autocostruire 2020 and bought one of Yeo's (diyparadise.com) 2020 amps. I've also heard a number of Vinnie's modded T-Amps and have modded a Teac.
Of them all, Yeo's is the clear winner and is my main amp, driven by a Transcendent Grounded Grid pre. The "Charlize", as he's named it, has tremendous bass extension and dynamics, although it's taken a long time to burn in (Rubycon caps). The other ones I built or modded were all in my system for many hours as main amps with identical speaks, IC's, speak cable, pre as my 300B, which is now gathering dust.
Regards,
Larry Welsh
I modded several T-Amps (to varying degrees), built a 41hz Amp 3 and Autocostruire 2020 and bought one of Yeo's (diyparadise.com) 2020 amps. I've also heard a number of Vinnie's modded T-Amps and have modded a Teac.
Of them all, Yeo's is the clear winner and is my main amp, driven by a Transcendent Grounded Grid pre. The "Charlize", as he's named it, has tremendous bass extension and dynamics, although it's taken a long time to burn in (Rubycon caps). The other ones I built or modded were all in my system for many hours as main amps with identical speaks, IC's, speak cable, pre as my 300B, which is now gathering dust.
Regards,
Larry Welsh
I am very happy with my AMP1B, although it suffered from whistles and tones now it sounds ok. You cannot compare it to the UCD's, which I don't , but the very open sound from low to medium levels and for the price you pay, well, it is absolutely worth the money. Will try an Amp2 next.😀
tianguis said:
Larry,
do you have the version with the air core inductors ?
How better it is when compared to the autocostruire 2020 ?
Thanks !
Daniel
Daniel:
Both the Autocostruire and the "Charlize" I've used have air-core inductors. I spent some time after I built the Autocostruire listening and changing rail caps and input caps. It got much better. When I first installed the "Charlize" I was stunned by the bass response (I had to adjust the Behringer EQ on my VMPS sub). I've made no changes to Yeo's amp.
The "Charlize" is much, much, much quieter than the AC (due to proper design and SMC's), has better resolution and sounds warmer without losing detail. It's not as sterile as any of the Tripath amps I've heard or built. After 200 hours, I think it's a "keeper".
Regards,
Larry Welsh
Both the Autocostruire and the "Charlize" I've used have air-core inductors. I spent some time after I built the Autocostruire listening and changing rail caps and input caps. It got much better. When I first installed the "Charlize" I was stunned by the bass response (I had to adjust the Behringer EQ on my VMPS sub). I've made no changes to Yeo's amp.
The "Charlize" is much, much, much quieter than the AC (due to proper design and SMC's), has better resolution and sounds warmer without losing detail. It's not as sterile as any of the Tripath amps I've heard or built. After 200 hours, I think it's a "keeper".
Regards,
Larry Welsh
Nuuk:
Nope, i ran it with sdtandard gain. That may account for some of the noise, but I doubt it had much of an impact.
LW
Nope, i ran it with sdtandard gain. That may account for some of the noise, but I doubt it had much of an impact.
LW
I ran the AC with half the gain (ie 34K8 feedback). I don't know how much this changes things but I don't hear quite so much difference between it and the Charlize as you do! 😉
Nuuk:
I was running both of them "naked" with no chassis or shielding. With Lowthers, the AC picked up lots of RFI and EMI. Even "naked", the Charlize is extremely quiet. SMD's, I guess. Also, the Charlize requires much more break-in. The AC didn't change much after the first few hours until the 200 hour mark. The Charlize has gone through four distinct "voices" in 200 hours. Rubycons, I guess.
LW
I was running both of them "naked" with no chassis or shielding. With Lowthers, the AC picked up lots of RFI and EMI. Even "naked", the Charlize is extremely quiet. SMD's, I guess. Also, the Charlize requires much more break-in. The AC didn't change much after the first few hours until the 200 hour mark. The Charlize has gone through four distinct "voices" in 200 hours. Rubycons, I guess.
LW
Let me add my opinion. I have an SI and the AC 2020. I find the latter distinctly better. That does not mean that the SI is bad. It is a very well sounding amp, particularly for the money. It has nevertheless some problems, e.g. the limited bass, which can only be improved by strong modifications. The possible modifications, however, are limited by the board layout and size. The eventual sound qualitiy, of course, is determined by the rather low quality of those parts which are not exchanged.
The AC starts from a much higher sound-quality level. It has all the positive characteristics of the SI (these are probably inherent to the class of low-power Tripath chips) but generally delivers more detail, more frequency range, more soundstage, etc.
Mick
The AC starts from a much higher sound-quality level. It has all the positive characteristics of the SI (these are probably inherent to the class of low-power Tripath chips) but generally delivers more detail, more frequency range, more soundstage, etc.
Mick
Member
Joined 2004
I bought three SI amps. All three worked fine. After I took a peek inside the first, it stopped working. After I replaced the second´s input caps with tiny wires it didn´t make a sound. The third one escaped from the garbage can. It´s still playing fine.
At first, because the lousy binding posts prevented from using "proper" speaker wires, I used four cat5 wires twisted as single runs. The amp sounded clean and controled but not as dynamic as my EL34 valve amp. Bass response was also shy.
I thought the low sensitivity of my Wharfedale compact monitors and the low value input caps were the reason, from what I read around.
However, after I made an HD-10 speaker cable I decided to reterminate one end with small spades to fit inside the SI´s connectors.
The low capacitance and large gauge wire makes this unmodded amp truly shine. I don´t feel any lack of dynamics and the bass is truly awsome. Plus, compared to the valve amp, the background is dead quiet.
This may seem to sail against the tide, but I would advise anyone to start experimenting with the right ancillaries before any modding.
Right now, I don´t feel the need to upgrade the SI to anything, except a second one for byamping.
At first, because the lousy binding posts prevented from using "proper" speaker wires, I used four cat5 wires twisted as single runs. The amp sounded clean and controled but not as dynamic as my EL34 valve amp. Bass response was also shy.
I thought the low sensitivity of my Wharfedale compact monitors and the low value input caps were the reason, from what I read around.
However, after I made an HD-10 speaker cable I decided to reterminate one end with small spades to fit inside the SI´s connectors.
The low capacitance and large gauge wire makes this unmodded amp truly shine. I don´t feel any lack of dynamics and the bass is truly awsome. Plus, compared to the valve amp, the background is dead quiet.
This may seem to sail against the tide, but I would advise anyone to start experimenting with the right ancillaries before any modding.
Right now, I don´t feel the need to upgrade the SI to anything, except a second one for byamping.
Hi,
I'd just like to point out that the SI is 20$ commercial "alarm clock" amp.
I trust the mods were in order for it, just wondering aside from 24K gold plated volume knobs, roughly how much you guys spent modding them to get them up to par? I'm sure it was fun but when you add it all up is it still worth the effort? Or would you perhaps recommend people just go for the kits, because in the end the projects ran about the same total and you get better quality? That's what I'd really like to know.
PauSim
"This may seem to navigate against the tide, but I would advise anyone to start experimenting with the right ancillaries before any modding."
Makes good sense to me.
Thanks,
Chris
I'd just like to point out that the SI is 20$ commercial "alarm clock" amp.
I trust the mods were in order for it, just wondering aside from 24K gold plated volume knobs, roughly how much you guys spent modding them to get them up to par? I'm sure it was fun but when you add it all up is it still worth the effort? Or would you perhaps recommend people just go for the kits, because in the end the projects ran about the same total and you get better quality? That's what I'd really like to know.
PauSim
"This may seem to navigate against the tide, but I would advise anyone to start experimenting with the right ancillaries before any modding."
Makes good sense to me.
Thanks,
Chris
tianguis said:
Larry,
thanks for your comments !
I have the AC 2020 and the bass is strong and well define. I should ad some .33uf to the output cap as my speakers are 4 ohm, but I don't feel the need to do it. If Charlize is better then the AC2020, it is surely a keeper as I personnaly think that the AC is a great amp. My Rogue Tempest Magnum (KT-88 tubes amp.) have better mid, but the HF of the AC sound as good to me and the bass of the AC is better. I would not say that the AC is sterile, but it surely mist a little bit of the "natural" that I get with my tube amp. That say, the Rogue worth 10x the $$ of what my 2020 project will cost me. I have to mention that I'm using some Solen film and foil cap in // with the input cap and this give more weight to the bass and a warmer sound....without loosing datails. I used some paper in oil for a few days. The level of detail was improoved + the amp was more dynamic....but the piano was just not natural 🙁
Best regards,
Daniel
classd4sure said:
A two cheap film caps, two cheap resistors, and one large, inexpensive electrolytic cap will get you 95% there, when it comes to modding the T-Amp. About $5-10, unless you want to get fancy with your caps. You could spend more to extract the last bits of performance out of it, but the bang to buck ratio declines rapidly if you spend more than a few dollars on it. You're just giving it a bigger power cap and eliminating bass roll off on the input. I did mine up with a couple 3.3uf Solen film caps, some blue resistors I don't even remember the value of and a 2200uf Panasonic film cap. If you don't include shipping, this only ran me about $4. Made a huge difference.
I guess you'd also want better connectors and a better potentiometer. Eh... Considering the measly amount of power the 2020 and 2024 amps produce, there's no benefit to using larger gauge wire and the potentiometer works just fine. It may be worthwhile if you're going to install it in a new case, but new connectors and a new potentiometer are way down on the list of things that make any audible difference, if at all.
It's worth it in my opinion to mod the T-Amp. While the Charlize and other kits look nice, they won't sound multiple times better than a modded T-Amp, despite the fact that you'll have to spend multiple times more for them. They're marginally better. You'll likely not be able to tell unless you A-B test them. It's up to you to decided if you'd rather have 2-3 modded T-Amps or one 'audiophile' grade kit. Or maybe spend the money saved on better things.
Well, I'm glad Larry likes the Charlize 'cause I purchased one a couple of months ago without the benefit of any reviews or comparisons. It was more for the fact that it was assembled, and I would have procrastinated big time on an SMD project like the Amp 3. I haven't put it together yet, but I will after I fix my tube pre. I expect the combo will sound very good together.
I did mod my SI T-amp and so far I'm disappointed. I'm hoping that it has something to do with burn-in because the stock unit sounded quite good for the few hours I used that way.
I did a reasonably complete mod, I think, changing out the PS cap to a 1500uF Panasonic FC, the feedback resistors to 20k ohm units, using some 3.0uF Hovland Musicaps I had lying around and some 22k Rikens at the input. I also routed the power so it comes in very close to the chip. I put a heatsink on the chip and used one of those little green 50k Alpha pots.
So far the sound is wirey and small. The highs sound artificial and not terribly involving and the bass isn't as tight as I expected. This is odd to me because the stock unit I built it from sounded fast, bouncy, warm, musical, and involving. I'd say that the stock unit with 3 hours on it wasn't 100% as refined as I expect it would have turned out to have been, but I'm surpised the modded unit sounds a lot less musical than even that. Again, I'm hoping that this just a burn-in issue, but maybe I just hit upon a bad synergy of parts.
Has anyone tried those 2.2uF Blackgate C coupling caps? The cost under $2 each, are very small, and I've read some good comments on them. Maybe they'd work better than the Hovlands?
Well, I'm going to burn it in for maybe another week or so. After that I think I'll lose patience and go back to my Sharp EX-111 until I get my Charlize up and running.
Any other success or failure stories on modded SI T-amps?
Best,
KT
I did mod my SI T-amp and so far I'm disappointed. I'm hoping that it has something to do with burn-in because the stock unit sounded quite good for the few hours I used that way.
I did a reasonably complete mod, I think, changing out the PS cap to a 1500uF Panasonic FC, the feedback resistors to 20k ohm units, using some 3.0uF Hovland Musicaps I had lying around and some 22k Rikens at the input. I also routed the power so it comes in very close to the chip. I put a heatsink on the chip and used one of those little green 50k Alpha pots.
So far the sound is wirey and small. The highs sound artificial and not terribly involving and the bass isn't as tight as I expected. This is odd to me because the stock unit I built it from sounded fast, bouncy, warm, musical, and involving. I'd say that the stock unit with 3 hours on it wasn't 100% as refined as I expect it would have turned out to have been, but I'm surpised the modded unit sounds a lot less musical than even that. Again, I'm hoping that this just a burn-in issue, but maybe I just hit upon a bad synergy of parts.
Has anyone tried those 2.2uF Blackgate C coupling caps? The cost under $2 each, are very small, and I've read some good comments on them. Maybe they'd work better than the Hovlands?
Well, I'm going to burn it in for maybe another week or so. After that I think I'll lose patience and go back to my Sharp EX-111 until I get my Charlize up and running.
Any other success or failure stories on modded SI T-amps?
Best,
KT
Something is definitely wrong. You're sure everything is wired correctly? Mine sounded immediately obviously better after modding it. You won't hear much difference in the mids and highs, but the low frequency stuff is now there (as opposed to rolling off at 70hz previously) and with the addition of the PS cap, the bass is audibly cleaner.
The Amp3 was a PITA for me too, as I don't have special SMD equipment. I know there are special soldering stations for this, or you could use epoxy and put it in the oven. Too much work for me. The Charlize should sound as good as a modded T-Amp. I'd be surprised if it sounded much different though. You should definitely take a look at your T-Amp. There's no reason for the sound to change that much, especially the high frequency sound.
The Amp3 was a PITA for me too, as I don't have special SMD equipment. I know there are special soldering stations for this, or you could use epoxy and put it in the oven. Too much work for me. The Charlize should sound as good as a modded T-Amp. I'd be surprised if it sounded much different though. You should definitely take a look at your T-Amp. There's no reason for the sound to change that much, especially the high frequency sound.
hi!
i don't think so. we tried a few tripath chips before deciding on ta2020.
the internal circuitry and lack of feedback are among the reasons why the 2020 sounds better.
then we went full swing on the pcb design. note that surface mount chip components are placed as close to the 2020 chip as possible.
all this is required as 800khz switching frequency is not something trivial.
is it possible that all amps built with bc559 and bc560 transistors should sound the same after modding?
donjuan
i don't think so. we tried a few tripath chips before deciding on ta2020.
the internal circuitry and lack of feedback are among the reasons why the 2020 sounds better.
then we went full swing on the pcb design. note that surface mount chip components are placed as close to the 2020 chip as possible.
all this is required as 800khz switching frequency is not something trivial.
is it possible that all amps built with bc559 and bc560 transistors should sound the same after modding?
donjuan
DonJuan (CK?):
I agree with you, totally. There is a small but obvious difference between the 2024 and 2020 chips, although they share the Tripath sound. The 2020 has greater frequency extension on both ends (when done right). I don't care what the measurements say, as I only use my ears. I also have posted about the "self noise" of some of the other Tripath amps. Without very efficient speakers, those differences may not be heard by lots of the posters. But they are important when talking about "resolution" or "detail". Think of the job a good driver has to do when given a signal which also includes a lot of "trash", no matter how good the primary signal is. SMD's work, and the Charlize proved it to me.
Regards,
Larry Welsh
I agree with you, totally. There is a small but obvious difference between the 2024 and 2020 chips, although they share the Tripath sound. The 2020 has greater frequency extension on both ends (when done right). I don't care what the measurements say, as I only use my ears. I also have posted about the "self noise" of some of the other Tripath amps. Without very efficient speakers, those differences may not be heard by lots of the posters. But they are important when talking about "resolution" or "detail". Think of the job a good driver has to do when given a signal which also includes a lot of "trash", no matter how good the primary signal is. SMD's work, and the Charlize proved it to me.
Regards,
Larry Welsh
I love my SI Amps..the sound and simplicity...and I have really enjoyed trying different mods and cases , (except changing the feedback caps,) Not sure it made any difference. anyway. (won't try that again, once was enough)..
A point to make is to remove the LED, this was my last mod and I think I should have done it first ( seemed to make a big difference, or has it all sent me mad?). If you want to use an LED, connect it before the board.. I also connected the speaker wires directly to the inductors feet, power supply and Cap direct to chip.
I have no worries of it breaking down, just put another £20 SI board in.
I use mine with inefficient (87db) speakers, plenty of volume and not yet heard any clippiing. All in all, a very possitive experience.
Time to start on the source....
Thanks for all the information...
Regards Barry..
A point to make is to remove the LED, this was my last mod and I think I should have done it first ( seemed to make a big difference, or has it all sent me mad?). If you want to use an LED, connect it before the board.. I also connected the speaker wires directly to the inductors feet, power supply and Cap direct to chip.
I have no worries of it breaking down, just put another £20 SI board in.
I use mine with inefficient (87db) speakers, plenty of volume and not yet heard any clippiing. All in all, a very possitive experience.
Time to start on the source....
Thanks for all the information...
Regards Barry..
- Status
- Not open for further replies.