Hello All, Hope I'm not asking too many previously answered questions. I did see a similar thread but had many different questions and didn't want to hijack it!
In brief, I am planning on building an ammo can boom box using a .50Cal box I have laying around.
I was considering using a pair of FaitalPRO 4FE35's in an M2A1 can (the 11 x 5.5 x 7" unit) But I am noticing that you can get a pair of car audio 4" units WITH integrated coax tweeter, presumably more Xmax, higher power handling, and decent sensitivity for ~$5 less than one 4FE35.
These guys for example:
Autotek ATS4CX 200W 4" 2-Way ATS Series Coaxial Car Speakers
The can has a volume of 6.93L which will drop of course when an SLA battery is added. For example, this 12V 12Ah unit
Sealed Lead Acid: Universal UB-12120F2 12V 12Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery: BatteryClerk.com
will take up 1.4 Liters off the bat. Using an amp board will be the most space efficient and once wires are added, the best possible net volume is around 5.5 Liters.
A few Questions:
1) The Thodio A-box seems to use a similar pair of 4" car audio coax drivers (no such thing as TS specs in that world apparently)
Thodio A-BOX Heavy Edition Thodio freedom Hifi, Best Portable Bluetooth speaker | The Best Bluetooth Speakers Available
with a small central port. Is the port even doing anything?
After running the 4FE35 through WinISD I found better performance with a sealed box.
2) What negative impact does too small of a box have for speakers?
I was considering using these 5.25" drivers instead, solely because they would fit:
Autotek ATS525CX 250W 5-1/4" 2-Way ATS Series Coaxial Car Speaker
will a ~5.5L box be much too small for these and am I better with the 4's?
Sorry for all the questions in a row! Thanks everyone!
In brief, I am planning on building an ammo can boom box using a .50Cal box I have laying around.
I was considering using a pair of FaitalPRO 4FE35's in an M2A1 can (the 11 x 5.5 x 7" unit) But I am noticing that you can get a pair of car audio 4" units WITH integrated coax tweeter, presumably more Xmax, higher power handling, and decent sensitivity for ~$5 less than one 4FE35.
These guys for example:
Autotek ATS4CX 200W 4" 2-Way ATS Series Coaxial Car Speakers
The can has a volume of 6.93L which will drop of course when an SLA battery is added. For example, this 12V 12Ah unit
Sealed Lead Acid: Universal UB-12120F2 12V 12Ah Sealed Lead Acid Battery: BatteryClerk.com
will take up 1.4 Liters off the bat. Using an amp board will be the most space efficient and once wires are added, the best possible net volume is around 5.5 Liters.
A few Questions:
1) The Thodio A-box seems to use a similar pair of 4" car audio coax drivers (no such thing as TS specs in that world apparently)
Thodio A-BOX Heavy Edition Thodio freedom Hifi, Best Portable Bluetooth speaker | The Best Bluetooth Speakers Available
with a small central port. Is the port even doing anything?
After running the 4FE35 through WinISD I found better performance with a sealed box.
2) What negative impact does too small of a box have for speakers?
I was considering using these 5.25" drivers instead, solely because they would fit:
Autotek ATS525CX 250W 5-1/4" 2-Way ATS Series Coaxial Car Speaker
will a ~5.5L box be much too small for these and am I better with the 4's?
Sorry for all the questions in a row! Thanks everyone!
Hi,
I'm having the same questions as you for a very similar project.
Just replying to show interest in this subject, first DIY audio project so I'm still in the process of learning.
Let's see if any expert around here can spare some minutes to "catch" this Thread.
Thanks
I'm having the same questions as you for a very similar project.
Just replying to show interest in this subject, first DIY audio project so I'm still in the process of learning.
Let's see if any expert around here can spare some minutes to "catch" this Thread.
Thanks
In-door drivers tend to have a tiny Vas and around a 0.7 Qts, but try the manufacturer's:
Technical Support
Phone: 847.540.7700
Faxx: 847.540.9776
Email: support@maxxsonics.com
Venting high Qts speakers is good for extending the bass line below Fs, then damping it similar to a sealed alignment to get a TL-like response or in the case of a boombox, give it a prominent bass 'boom' [peak] directly below Fs, hence how it rightly 'earned' its moniker back in the '70s😉.
GM
Technical Support
Phone: 847.540.7700
Faxx: 847.540.9776
Email: support@maxxsonics.com
Venting high Qts speakers is good for extending the bass line below Fs, then damping it similar to a sealed alignment to get a TL-like response or in the case of a boombox, give it a prominent bass 'boom' [peak] directly below Fs, hence how it rightly 'earned' its moniker back in the '70s😉.
GM
Good to know! And good call on the manufacturer, left them a message asking for TS specs, hope I didn't earn myself a spot on the blocked number list!
If I can't find the specs, could I use a suitably close performing home audio driver for simulation purposes?
I'm not expecting 40Hz performance at volume with this setup but I think 70 would be amazing! The question is, will a pair of smaller drivers who are operating closer to an ideal enclosure volume make that easier? Or should I use the 1.25" bigger ones for greater volume displacement?
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If I can't find the specs, could I use a suitably close performing home audio driver for simulation purposes?
I'm not expecting 40Hz performance at volume with this setup but I think 70 would be amazing! The question is, will a pair of smaller drivers who are operating closer to an ideal enclosure volume make that easier? Or should I use the 1.25" bigger ones for greater volume displacement?
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're welcome!
???? How do you propose to find a suitably close performing home audio driver for simulation purposes when we don't have a clue how the Autoteks perform?
Since the driver is rated down to 64-65 Hz depending on which website you look at, I'm assuming that this is the practical limit since its Fs is typically somewhat higher with mobile audio drivers.
I'm guessing that a larger driver can work, but will probably require a ~aperiodic vent, which will negate much of its extra LF output, though should play louder higher up in the mid-bass, lower mids, so might be worth it overall, especially since the vent normally will take up less room.
GM
???? How do you propose to find a suitably close performing home audio driver for simulation purposes when we don't have a clue how the Autoteks perform?
Since the driver is rated down to 64-65 Hz depending on which website you look at, I'm assuming that this is the practical limit since its Fs is typically somewhat higher with mobile audio drivers.
I'm guessing that a larger driver can work, but will probably require a ~aperiodic vent, which will negate much of its extra LF output, though should play louder higher up in the mid-bass, lower mids, so might be worth it overall, especially since the vent normally will take up less room.
GM
Hey everyone, So another quick question hopefully.
I think it's only right that this ammo can boombox is powered by a miniature tube amp! I have plenty of reading to do on tubes still but how feasible is it to construct a small vacuum tube amplifier to power these speakers? Are tube amps efficient enough for this?
I think it's only right that this ammo can boombox is powered by a miniature tube amp! I have plenty of reading to do on tubes still but how feasible is it to construct a small vacuum tube amplifier to power these speakers? Are tube amps efficient enough for this?
Tubes need high voltage ( about 3-400 V )
And the heaters are VERY inefficient
Those would suck at least 1 A ( at low voltage...6.3 or 12 V ) permanently
so no good for battery supply without an auxiliary generator ( like in car, with the motor running )
The best way to use batteries is to use class D amplifiers which are very efficient, up to 90%. D means Digital.
And the heaters are VERY inefficient
Those would suck at least 1 A ( at low voltage...6.3 or 12 V ) permanently
so no good for battery supply without an auxiliary generator ( like in car, with the motor running )
The best way to use batteries is to use class D amplifiers which are very efficient, up to 90%. D means Digital.
Wow, that was a fear of mine. I think a wall outlet powered edition of this project might be in development separately from the battery powered one in that case. Thanks!
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So, I have been looking for a 12VDC tube preamp that I could run in front of a class-D amp with no luck (do they exist?)
For sticking with a battery powered setup, I have been looking at chip amp boards rather than a full amp in an effort to save on box volume for the drivers. The TA2024 boards are popular and cheap but can anyone see a reason not to use this amp?
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-20w-stereo-audio-amplifier-class-d-max9744/overview
Based on the data sheet it seems more efficient and can play another 3 watts than the 2024 before it hits 1%THD
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For sticking with a battery powered setup, I have been looking at chip amp boards rather than a full amp in an effort to save on box volume for the drivers. The TA2024 boards are popular and cheap but can anyone see a reason not to use this amp?
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-20w-stereo-audio-amplifier-class-d-max9744/overview
Based on the data sheet it seems more efficient and can play another 3 watts than the 2024 before it hits 1%THD
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey Guys, in the process of sourcing speakers for this project. I was previously decided on a pair of FaitalPRO 4FE35's; the looks super strong out to 15kHz and highly efficient too (91dB)
FaitalPRO 4FE35 4" Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 Ohm
BUT, I think this may be too good to be true. I found these Cerwin Vega H440's for $40 a pair.
Cerwin-Vega H440 200W 4" HED Series Coaxial Car Speakers
They quote 92 dB sensitivity, they're cheaper by $10 for the pair, have a coaxial tweeter and say they're good to 18kHz. Could that sensitivity be based solely on the tweeter? I requested TS params from CV but no reply on those yet...
Any Reason to go with these rather than the 4FE35's? will that extra 3K of HF be appreciably better than the 4FE's? Do car coaxial car drivers usually perform better than full range FaitalPRO's in small boxes?
Sorry for the question barrage, thanks!
FaitalPRO 4FE35 4" Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 Ohm
BUT, I think this may be too good to be true. I found these Cerwin Vega H440's for $40 a pair.
Cerwin-Vega H440 200W 4" HED Series Coaxial Car Speakers
They quote 92 dB sensitivity, they're cheaper by $10 for the pair, have a coaxial tweeter and say they're good to 18kHz. Could that sensitivity be based solely on the tweeter? I requested TS params from CV but no reply on those yet...
Any Reason to go with these rather than the 4FE35's? will that extra 3K of HF be appreciably better than the 4FE's? Do car coaxial car drivers usually perform better than full range FaitalPRO's in small boxes?
Sorry for the question barrage, thanks!
That adafruit amp is better than a TA2024, but the 3W isn't something to be excited about. That's not even an audible difference.
Those CV's are **** compared to the Faital's. The Faitals aren't that great in the high frequency region, certainly off axis. A tweeter will add quite a bit, but they can manage without if you want. They need at least 14 liter when you're porting. When you're sealing, bass performance will be lacking.
Those CV's are **** compared to the Faital's. The Faitals aren't that great in the high frequency region, certainly off axis. A tweeter will add quite a bit, but they can manage without if you want. They need at least 14 liter when you're porting. When you're sealing, bass performance will be lacking.
I will definitively be running sealed, Hornresp showed that even a modest sized port would lead to a HUGE peak in response with these 4FE35s in such a small box (around 6 liters for 2 drivers). Just a boombox! haha
I guess people have been very happy with Paul Carmody's Sprite boombox which has some decent bass for its size but the Dayton ND90's/Aura NS3's are 10dB down and have about 5kHz less high end so I guess this box should be an improvement in volume and HF.
Would you recommend the Faital quality over the CV's? It seems like all they have going for them is the tweeter now
I guess people have been very happy with Paul Carmody's Sprite boombox which has some decent bass for its size but the Dayton ND90's/Aura NS3's are 10dB down and have about 5kHz less high end so I guess this box should be an improvement in volume and HF.
Would you recommend the Faital quality over the CV's? It seems like all they have going for them is the tweeter now
Definitely not for 6 liter. I would look for high quality car speakers (Hertz, Pioneer, JBL); most 5 inchers are comfortable in 6 liter sealed.
OK, I could picture your pair of ammo-cans, each has an SLA battery & a "high-power" chipset amp in each.
I ran a Visaton 5" (cheap driver)in WinISD beta for 5.5L worth of enclosure, (sealed) & got just -3.1 Db@80.42 Hz.
Not fair it seems, trying to get some bass performance out of such small drivers! That said let's look at just what kind of head we'll be running it with..
I'd guess we might have the likes of a laptop or tablet with a plain-ol' earphone jack to make it go...
What we may be overlooking is, on our devices, we have full equalization settings pre-loaded & we can tweak that poor bottom-end....ramp it up some 12Db or so...where the drivers seem to fall flat (roll-off).
So we're out in the local park jamming out with a laptop & two "Audiocans"...
________________________________________________Rick........
I ran a Visaton 5" (cheap driver)in WinISD beta for 5.5L worth of enclosure, (sealed) & got just -3.1 Db@80.42 Hz.
Not fair it seems, trying to get some bass performance out of such small drivers! That said let's look at just what kind of head we'll be running it with..
I'd guess we might have the likes of a laptop or tablet with a plain-ol' earphone jack to make it go...
What we may be overlooking is, on our devices, we have full equalization settings pre-loaded & we can tweak that poor bottom-end....ramp it up some 12Db or so...where the drivers seem to fall flat (roll-off).
So we're out in the local park jamming out with a laptop & two "Audiocans"...
________________________________________________Rick........
actually, I should have been more specific. This is one ammo can (11x5.5x7) so about 6 liters total internal volume for two 4 inch drivers (3 liters each) Not a whole lot.
Running Hornresp, the 4FE35 seems to be -3dB at 100Hz in a 3 liter enclosure while the Dayton ND105-4 (super high excursion full range) is -3dB at 80Hz. HOWEVER, the Dayton struggles to get above 10kHz and seems to be at least 3-5dB less output than the Faital.
My problem with these car audio drivers is that TS specs seem to be nonexistent. looking at the Thodio A-Box (original ammo can boombox) a single port is used. unless that driver's specs make that usable, I don't see any helpfulness of porting such a small enclosure.
Running Hornresp, the 4FE35 seems to be -3dB at 100Hz in a 3 liter enclosure while the Dayton ND105-4 (super high excursion full range) is -3dB at 80Hz. HOWEVER, the Dayton struggles to get above 10kHz and seems to be at least 3-5dB less output than the Faital.
My problem with these car audio drivers is that TS specs seem to be nonexistent. looking at the Thodio A-Box (original ammo can boombox) a single port is used. unless that driver's specs make that usable, I don't see any helpfulness of porting such a small enclosure.
The A-Box is quite a bit bigger, but those aren't car audio drivers I believe. They're custom coaxial drivers. Normally car audio drivers don't like to be ported due to their high Q.
The ND105 is definitely not a fullrange. It has nasty cone breakup in the high freq region and needs a second order lowpass to cross over to a little dome tweeter.
The ND105 is definitely not a fullrange. It has nasty cone breakup in the high freq region and needs a second order lowpass to cross over to a little dome tweeter.
So for this given size box, would you say that the H440's (or any 4" car audio drivers) will outperform the 4FE35's on the low end of the spectrum? It seems the coaxial tweeter will be the clear winner for HF.
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Not super sure about quality between Kicker and Cerwin Vega, but with a $50 price limit on a pair of drivers I think my final decision would be between the 4FE35's and these Kickers:
Kicker 40CS44 4" CS Coaxial Car Speakers - Sonic Electronix
I wish TS specs weren't impossible to find!
Kicker 40CS44 4" CS Coaxial Car Speakers - Sonic Electronix
I wish TS specs weren't impossible to find!
Yes, for sure. If you got 8 to 10 liter to work with and a little money to throw at a dome tweeter plus crossover, the Faitals would beat the c r a p out of the car speakers.
Car speakers are 'good' (acceptable) option for small sealed boomboxes with a small budget. Can't you fit 5 inchers in the box? There seem to be better options available than those CV"s.
Car speakers are 'good' (acceptable) option for small sealed boomboxes with a small budget. Can't you fit 5 inchers in the box? There seem to be better options available than those CV"s.
Well, the 4's really seem to fit this box well from my SolidWorks model and anything bigger would really be cutting it close.
for the same price, those Kicker CS44's seem pretty nice. I'm thinking the coax tweeter and likely better bass extension would make up for the missing 3dB of sensitivity. (how loud am I going to be cranking this box after all)
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