Hey guys,
Been fiddling a lot with electronics, mostly sound oriented and have a pretty strong background and comprehension of the sort.
I have this REALISTIC SA-800 amplifier that I bought in a garage sale couple of years ago I used it for a while but got sick of the fact that it just sounds like ****.
Basically everything works but it feels like it just can't produce clear bass, anything that pushes the amp a little over the top just makes everything sound like distortion. The sound is very "MID RANGED" if you see what I mean it sounds like an old radio.But yet I know it probably CAN be a lot better than this. Where can I start to look for defective internal parts?
The amplifier has RCA INPUTS, but what makes me wonder is that it has RCA OUTPUTS and weird connectors aswell for the speakers... both these connectors are in parallel so its ONE OR the Other , does this change anything I mean does it say anything about the OUTPUT it is meant to have.
It's got Channel A and B and a 'QUATRAVOX' option also...
Anyways I wan't to make it sort of a project of upgrading it or finding the culprit. So what sorts of values should I be looking for with my multimeter to see if anything is wrong?
Thanks a lot!
Been fiddling a lot with electronics, mostly sound oriented and have a pretty strong background and comprehension of the sort.
I have this REALISTIC SA-800 amplifier that I bought in a garage sale couple of years ago I used it for a while but got sick of the fact that it just sounds like ****.
Basically everything works but it feels like it just can't produce clear bass, anything that pushes the amp a little over the top just makes everything sound like distortion. The sound is very "MID RANGED" if you see what I mean it sounds like an old radio.But yet I know it probably CAN be a lot better than this. Where can I start to look for defective internal parts?
The amplifier has RCA INPUTS, but what makes me wonder is that it has RCA OUTPUTS and weird connectors aswell for the speakers... both these connectors are in parallel so its ONE OR the Other , does this change anything I mean does it say anything about the OUTPUT it is meant to have.
It's got Channel A and B and a 'QUATRAVOX' option also...
Anyways I wan't to make it sort of a project of upgrading it or finding the culprit. So what sorts of values should I be looking for with my multimeter to see if anything is wrong?
Thanks a lot!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi, its not the sort of thing you can turn into a killer hi-fi amplifier, rgds, sreten.
Very impressed with a Pioneer A-300X picked up relatively cheap for a friend :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Effectively a passive pre with power amplifier and a good phono stage.
Needless to say, I'm pretty sure it will slaughter the Realistic on sound quality.
Rest of the system I bought for my friend :
above amp £70 (used)
Systemdek IIX turntable, Rega RB250 arm , Ortofon 520 cartridge, £200 (used)
Marantz quality CD player £30 (used)
Vendor of the above threw in a good Technics tuner and great Technic double cassette deck, £0, (used)
Ebay phono cables - good ones for around £5 to £10 a pair
Around £1.30 a metre decent speaker cables
Wharfedale CR30.4 speakers, floor standers £130 (new)
glass shelf 4 tier hifi rack £100 (new)
One hell of a system for the total cost, easily the best quality per $ I've put together.
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The picture you posted is an earlier model, mine is the old WOODEN one I agree I'm not expecting hi-fi sound from it I just know it's not meant to be playing this bad. And part of the fun I'm having is trying to "frankenstein it" so to say. I would like to play around with changing some internal parts to have it meet some higher standards and I'm just doing this for fun to see what affects sound levels, quality which is why I'm asking to know what internal parts to look at first in these types of scenarios.
Thanks
Ya that Pioneer amp looks good I'm new to the concept of 'PRE and normal AMP'
PREAMPS have no treble,bass,mid and etc. adjustments? They just power and send to a standard amp?
Thanks
Ya that Pioneer amp looks good I'm new to the concept of 'PRE and normal AMP'
PREAMPS have no treble,bass,mid and etc. adjustments? They just power and send to a standard amp?
I mean if I replace the caps, pop in some new transistors am I supposed to expect some improvement? I don't want it to wake the neighbors I just want it to play 'right' I don't think it came out of the factory with such poor sound quality?
Is this really an SA-800, not the STA-800 receiver? 'cause I'm drowning in service docs for that one, and it would seem to be the right kind of vintage.
As mentioned, it is likely to need a new set of 'lytics.
As mentioned, it is likely to need a new set of 'lytics.
Well unless my eyes are screwed, the front panel clearly states SA-800.
Why am I chasing my tail ?
Replacing the caps could be an idea, but that seems to be the common troubleshoot for any amp, is there anything else that can partially fail?
I donno if this helps but when I turn the power off the sound fades away into a distortion before completely coming off does this point straight to the caps?
Why am I chasing my tail ?
Replacing the caps could be an idea, but that seems to be the common troubleshoot for any amp, is there anything else that can partially fail?
I donno if this helps but when I turn the power off the sound fades away into a distortion before completely coming off does this point straight to the caps?
So the main CAPS are 2 x 4700MFD they are 'grey' written UNICON JAPAN
If I replace them with the same values with no regards to the type or "volume size" just as long as they are both 4700MFD what parameters may I mess up and what other things can be messed up by capacitors with the right value but not necessarily same type.
Keep in mind this is a learning experience I don't really care if the amp is out of spec after I just want to see and learn a bit here..
Thanks
If I replace them with the same values with no regards to the type or "volume size" just as long as they are both 4700MFD what parameters may I mess up and what other things can be messed up by capacitors with the right value but not necessarily same type.
Keep in mind this is a learning experience I don't really care if the amp is out of spec after I just want to see and learn a bit here..
Thanks
That doesn't seem like correct operation to me, and suggests caps are involved somehow. I can't pinpoint an exact failure though.
Hi,
Because quality comes from good circuitry and good layout.
Loads of mediocre amplifiers sound like that due to layout.
If some of the electrolytics are duff, replacing them will improve things.
Whilst I am of the opinion amplifier differences are often grossly exaggerated,
I am also of the opinion there are large differences between budget amplifiers.
TBH in the above system IMO the Pioneer performs flawlessly and a better
amplifier* simply isn't needed, the system could easily take far more expensive
speakers, though the ones used IMO worked very well for what they are, and
for the price look very nice, which is in the end part of end user satisfaction.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
1" tweeter, 6.5" mid/bass, 6.5" PR.
Again JMO but that amplifier would ruin that system, no matter how I modded
it. Its simply not up to the job, its cheap bells and whistles, not hifi IMO.
I was surprised at how well the total system turned out, how good it is
to listen to for a total budget of £500 (ignoring the £100 stand) for a
turntable, arm, cartridge, cd player, fm tuner, double cassette deck,
amplifier and all cables including a mains distributor.
Every source is really good to outstanding for the price, very nice.
Good music doesn't have to be that expensive, with good choices.
I told the guy I put it together for, who could have spent £2000,
lets just see what the cheapest good stuff we can put together
does, he is extremely happy, the quality exceeds his expections.
That amplifier in the above system would degrade everything, not good.
As a system the amplifier cost ~ 1/7, you need the best quality per £.
rgds, sreten.
* or phono stage .....
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Hello Toypick.
I understand your need to 'climb'.
Just a few points though. This is an old transistor amp (?) maybe 30watts power output with some luck. That means that the supply rails are probably only 30v plus and 30v minus.
If you put in a transformer that will give you 50v plus/minus, you will need to upgrade the caps.....becoming expensive.
If you wish to get the sound right you should look at the front end and it looks like a fixed set up in the form of an equaliser which isn't working otherwise you would have a lot of tonal range. Then the output amplifier.....if you want some powert, you will need to up your supply voltages as mentioned, this is not an easy operation unless you want to strip everything out and start again. What everyone is trying to say is that it really is not worth going along there. Also 'Realistic' was certainly not a particularly wonderful brand name in Hi Fi terms. Put it on sale somewhere and get something better to start with.....you are trying to "make a silk purse out of a pigs ear" Cheers and good hunting.
I understand your need to 'climb'.
Just a few points though. This is an old transistor amp (?) maybe 30watts power output with some luck. That means that the supply rails are probably only 30v plus and 30v minus.
If you put in a transformer that will give you 50v plus/minus, you will need to upgrade the caps.....becoming expensive.
If you wish to get the sound right you should look at the front end and it looks like a fixed set up in the form of an equaliser which isn't working otherwise you would have a lot of tonal range. Then the output amplifier.....if you want some powert, you will need to up your supply voltages as mentioned, this is not an easy operation unless you want to strip everything out and start again. What everyone is trying to say is that it really is not worth going along there. Also 'Realistic' was certainly not a particularly wonderful brand name in Hi Fi terms. Put it on sale somewhere and get something better to start with.....you are trying to "make a silk purse out of a pigs ear" Cheers and good hunting.
"I donno if this helps but when I turn the power off the sound fades away into a distortion before completely coming off does this point straight to the caps?"
This is typical of single rail supply, with output capacitor and is normal.....even cheaper design. My advice as above.
This is typical of single rail supply, with output capacitor and is normal.....even cheaper design. My advice as above.
Thanks exactly the type of answer I Was hoping to hear!
I am well aware that Realistic is not anywhere near having a spot on the podium for it's sound quality and knowing that I was ready to screw around with some parameters to hear the differences if any by swapping some caps I have here of the same values and testing out some stuff.
I see what you mean by the single rail voltage, and since I don't have as transformer AND a set of caps to match the voltage upgrade I have to agree that spending money on something unvaluable is a waste yet a learning experience.
Cheers
I am well aware that Realistic is not anywhere near having a spot on the podium for it's sound quality and knowing that I was ready to screw around with some parameters to hear the differences if any by swapping some caps I have here of the same values and testing out some stuff.
I see what you mean by the single rail voltage, and since I don't have as transformer AND a set of caps to match the voltage upgrade I have to agree that spending money on something unvaluable is a waste yet a learning experience.
Cheers
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Have a look on ebay for an older Pioneer, Biggish Kenwood, Nad, even a 70s JVC, Marantz (1060 was nice).....you will probably just be happy with the sound, but buy a kit form Mosfet amp and play around a little. You will learn heaps in a short while. Cheers
But even then this 'TEST' amp isn't even something I'm planning on using for now, that's why I don't really wanna invest YET.
I have a very uncommon sound setup and probably most of you would disagree with the way its wired...
Front Jack on the soundcard
(except for the logitech, they go from 1/8" jack to RCA connectors) ** and since I split them all with Y jacks how much sound quality am I losing by splitting my soundcard outputs so many times? **
Logitech X230 2.1
Woofer AMP (Powering 2 x 10" woofers)
Rear jack on the sound card
Panasonic SA-AK17 (Wired to four speakers of different types and different impedances)
Technics vintage AMP SA-222 (Wired to 7 different speaker types and different impedances)
On the panasonic in the other room I have two 2way home made speakers with home made crossovers playing quite well paired with two separate "mid/tweeters" from an old surround sound.
On the technics amp on channel A I have the two panasonic 2 way speakers that were meant for the Panasonic amp and on Channel B I have an old Hitachi tower speaker (2way), two tweeters, a horn flare tweeter I pulled from an alarm system and this random allaround 8inch speaker in a woofer cabinet.
I'm aware lots of things are not respected in regards to impedance and all that but since I've been set up like this for like 2 years now and it plays really well even though it sounds random mind you, I'd like you guys to point out what you see being a real 'problem' in my setup! Thanks.
I have a very uncommon sound setup and probably most of you would disagree with the way its wired...
Front Jack on the soundcard
(except for the logitech, they go from 1/8" jack to RCA connectors) ** and since I split them all with Y jacks how much sound quality am I losing by splitting my soundcard outputs so many times? **
Logitech X230 2.1
Woofer AMP (Powering 2 x 10" woofers)
Rear jack on the sound card
Panasonic SA-AK17 (Wired to four speakers of different types and different impedances)
Technics vintage AMP SA-222 (Wired to 7 different speaker types and different impedances)
On the panasonic in the other room I have two 2way home made speakers with home made crossovers playing quite well paired with two separate "mid/tweeters" from an old surround sound.
On the technics amp on channel A I have the two panasonic 2 way speakers that were meant for the Panasonic amp and on Channel B I have an old Hitachi tower speaker (2way), two tweeters, a horn flare tweeter I pulled from an alarm system and this random allaround 8inch speaker in a woofer cabinet.
I'm aware lots of things are not respected in regards to impedance and all that but since I've been set up like this for like 2 years now and it plays really well even though it sounds random mind you, I'd like you guys to point out what you see being a real 'problem' in my setup! Thanks.
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Since my parents have their room just above my computer room it allows me to turn off separately each amp that annoys them and I can have just one set of speakers playing depending on the time of day. Since the soundcard does the 'SURROUND SOUND' setup for me (separating the jacks making the Technics rear and logitech FRONT I do get some pretty interesting surround in games and movies IMO it works quite well. It seems likes a poor man's setup but yet I have quite a big budget I just don't see where I can improve 'efficiently' the speakers ? The amp? Both? Most people try to get MORE POWER by upgrading their amps but right now the power I get from separate amps working together is enough to have everyone in the house wanting me to turn it down so I try to aim for quality and by mixing different brands, sizes and amps I get quite an interesting mix of sounds. Anyways just wanted to share my setup I wonder if other people have fun doing such mixes or if I'm the only one haha! I have some pretty good quality speaker cable which I noticed made a huge difference in sound quality compared to the scrap I used initially. Also to attack my unbalanced impedance I have the speakers arranged in a way that the ones closest to me have the highest impedance allowing those whom are playing louder (4-6ohms) to be heard from further while the 8 and 12ohm setups are closer. Spent many hours doing some benchmarking on high quality songs testing different speaker positioning to have the best sound coming from all around while sitting at my desk. I've been reading about you guys saying different amps have different sounds and I agree to that, but some of the things I wonder, what if like ME, your "pre amp" is sort of a computer soundcard, how much of a quality amp are we losing here ? And since I listen mostly to MP3 based files(Nothing below 320kbps) , and some HD videos am I sacrificing sound quality in big numbers here too? When you guys test your amps for clearness and quality are you guys playing from a high quality CD player or such?
I know I got a lot of questions but this stuff really interests me, sorry if most of this is basic for some of you but we all want to start somewhere.
I know I got a lot of questions but this stuff really interests me, sorry if most of this is basic for some of you but we all want to start somewhere.
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Hi Toypick, At the end of the day, if what you are hearing delights you, the aim is met. However, with time, if there are deficiencies, your ears will start to tell you to change.
listening to someone elses sytem....if it is heaps better, may alert you to some problems, but if not, be happy with what you have.
I do not consider sound cards to be too hot, nor MP3s but thats a subjective thing. I don't know if my ears are still as good as they were. Usually HD is good but surround system puts a lot of out-of-phase crap into the front stereo speakers that you don't need.
One point though, Most amplifiers will be happy driving an 8 Ohm load...(8 Ohm Speakers) and may put out 30watts if you turn it up. If you join another speaker to the output, another 8 ohm one, by just wiring it together with the one that is there, you will change the load to 4 Ohms. By turning it up, you will be asking the amplifier to put out 60watts (double) It may handle it but it will get hot.....(If you do this with 4 ohms, you may get down to 2 ohms total which could be impossible for the amplifier to tolerate at 120w). It may 'clip'. That's when there is not enough power from the transformer and caps to power the amp to 60 watts or 120w), so it hits a ceiling and just distorts. This puts a lot of DC into the speakers and can burn them, also, the amp may blow the output transistors. So be careful not to turn it up too loud.
With time a small investment I am sure you will continue to improve the system, but you will follow what your ears tell you. As you learn, you will see more, and change things to suit. No point in spending a fortune on top of the shelf Hi Fi if you are not listening to sources that require that level of clarity and reproductive integrity. Cheers
listening to someone elses sytem....if it is heaps better, may alert you to some problems, but if not, be happy with what you have.
I do not consider sound cards to be too hot, nor MP3s but thats a subjective thing. I don't know if my ears are still as good as they were. Usually HD is good but surround system puts a lot of out-of-phase crap into the front stereo speakers that you don't need.
One point though, Most amplifiers will be happy driving an 8 Ohm load...(8 Ohm Speakers) and may put out 30watts if you turn it up. If you join another speaker to the output, another 8 ohm one, by just wiring it together with the one that is there, you will change the load to 4 Ohms. By turning it up, you will be asking the amplifier to put out 60watts (double) It may handle it but it will get hot.....(If you do this with 4 ohms, you may get down to 2 ohms total which could be impossible for the amplifier to tolerate at 120w). It may 'clip'. That's when there is not enough power from the transformer and caps to power the amp to 60 watts or 120w), so it hits a ceiling and just distorts. This puts a lot of DC into the speakers and can burn them, also, the amp may blow the output transistors. So be careful not to turn it up too loud.
With time a small investment I am sure you will continue to improve the system, but you will follow what your ears tell you. As you learn, you will see more, and change things to suit. No point in spending a fortune on top of the shelf Hi Fi if you are not listening to sources that require that level of clarity and reproductive integrity. Cheers
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Amazing reply,
Which reminds me of my New years party where I plugged my dad's Yamaha A-500 natural sound amplifier ( which in my opinion sounds monstrously well ) and ya I should have hidden the amp because as people were having more and more fun songs were being played louder and louder because the bass was quite good on these 12 inch subbed tower speakers made by JANIS back in the days.
Anyway ya, the amp blew a resistor and transistor which ended up costing about 100$ but in the long end seems to have been a good fix since now it plays much better..
Which reminds me of my New years party where I plugged my dad's Yamaha A-500 natural sound amplifier ( which in my opinion sounds monstrously well ) and ya I should have hidden the amp because as people were having more and more fun songs were being played louder and louder because the bass was quite good on these 12 inch subbed tower speakers made by JANIS back in the days.
Anyway ya, the amp blew a resistor and transistor which ended up costing about 100$ but in the long end seems to have been a good fix since now it plays much better..
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