I say 'maybe'.
My journey in things music- and sound-related started with singing, then playing instruments to accompany/support the singing, then much later into the tech aspects of music and sound. I have never lost sight of the fact that, while there's a large overlap in skills required to do them well, there's a huge experiential difference in playing or creating an instrument versus being one.
In the most general sense, a musician is someone who makes music. What qualifies as 'music' is a whole 'nuther matter. But it's interesting to note that singers rarely refer to themselves as musicians, unless they also play. But players almost always do.
And that's pretty much where I land. Singers are singers, and players are players. And they may or may not be musicians, except when referred to in the abstract, when they are. But the participants in the community definitely sense and make a distinction.
My journey in things music- and sound-related started with singing, then playing instruments to accompany/support the singing, then much later into the tech aspects of music and sound. I have never lost sight of the fact that, while there's a large overlap in skills required to do them well, there's a huge experiential difference in playing or creating an instrument versus being one.
In the most general sense, a musician is someone who makes music. What qualifies as 'music' is a whole 'nuther matter. But it's interesting to note that singers rarely refer to themselves as musicians, unless they also play. But players almost always do.
And that's pretty much where I land. Singers are singers, and players are players. And they may or may not be musicians, except when referred to in the abstract, when they are. But the participants in the community definitely sense and make a distinction.
Yes, we, as observers, regard them that both way. That's what it looks like from the outside.
But what I find most interesting about this, and the point I'm making, is that the participants themselves don't. I have never known a singer-only who would describe themself as a musician. If asked what they do, they would never say "I'm a musician", they would say "I'm a singer". For them, it is a matter of personal identity, and singers are different than players. But every player does identify with "being a musician".
Just another objective-subjective dissonance in this field in which we work/play.
But what I find most interesting about this, and the point I'm making, is that the participants themselves don't. I have never known a singer-only who would describe themself as a musician. If asked what they do, they would never say "I'm a musician", they would say "I'm a singer". For them, it is a matter of personal identity, and singers are different than players. But every player does identify with "being a musician".
Just another objective-subjective dissonance in this field in which we work/play.
Is the human voice box a musical instrument? Can it be used to accompany music? Does it enrich music?
If yes, singers are musicians. Singers have to learn how to use their voice which is similar to someone learning to play a musical instrument. As I am not a musician myself I know little about the subject but opera singers do need a lot of voice training to achieve their professional level. I think, although I may not be totally correct, even modern singers learn how to use their voice professionally.
If yes, singers are musicians. Singers have to learn how to use their voice which is similar to someone learning to play a musical instrument. As I am not a musician myself I know little about the subject but opera singers do need a lot of voice training to achieve their professional level. I think, although I may not be totally correct, even modern singers learn how to use their voice professionally.
Can a "rapper" be considered a musician by simply reciting some words?
Since (almost) anyone can sing, aren't we all musicians?
Since (almost) anyone can sing, aren't we all musicians?
Singers are artists.
My voice instructor passed away a few days ago. I think that his technique was like an HVAC technician, mechanical engineer and physicist! How to use that little pump, how to transition from the tessitura, etc.
He was a grad of the Cleveland Institute of Music back when George Szell was Music Director for the Cleveland Orchestra, and worked with Robert Shaw at the same time. One of those pianists/organists who could change keys at the drop of a hat...and a phenomenal sense of humor.
My voice instructor passed away a few days ago. I think that his technique was like an HVAC technician, mechanical engineer and physicist! How to use that little pump, how to transition from the tessitura, etc.
He was a grad of the Cleveland Institute of Music back when George Szell was Music Director for the Cleveland Orchestra, and worked with Robert Shaw at the same time. One of those pianists/organists who could change keys at the drop of a hat...and a phenomenal sense of humor.
Some would say a musician does it for money, and a singer does it in the shower or at Karaoke.
Billy Corgan is a musician that happens to do vocals... I can sing but nobody is buying a ticket 😛
Billy Corgan is a musician that happens to do vocals... I can sing but nobody is buying a ticket 😛
This topic is kind of crazy.
A musician is someone who creates music from nothing, all by themselves.
A professional musician is someone who creates music as a profession (gets paid to create music).
An amateur musician is someone who creates music for the love of it.
A trained musician is someone who studies music and practices things like scales, music theory, music composition, tone production, pitch control, etc.
If you play a harmonica and you make music with it, you are a musician.
If you play a rubber band and you make music with it, you are musician.
If you make music with your voice you are a musician.
If you sing and no music comes of it, then I guess you're not a musician.
Ergo, singers are musicians if they're any good.
Some singers are trained musicians. They read music and everything!
One could argue about what makes a "real" musician, but that's a value judgment, not a definition.
If you build a speaker to reproduce music you are not a musician. You are an engineer and/or a speaker builder.
A musician is someone who creates music from nothing, all by themselves.
A professional musician is someone who creates music as a profession (gets paid to create music).
An amateur musician is someone who creates music for the love of it.
A trained musician is someone who studies music and practices things like scales, music theory, music composition, tone production, pitch control, etc.
If you play a harmonica and you make music with it, you are a musician.
If you play a rubber band and you make music with it, you are musician.
If you make music with your voice you are a musician.
If you sing and no music comes of it, then I guess you're not a musician.
Ergo, singers are musicians if they're any good.
Some singers are trained musicians. They read music and everything!
One could argue about what makes a "real" musician, but that's a value judgment, not a definition.
If you build a speaker to reproduce music you are not a musician. You are an engineer and/or a speaker builder.
One could go crazy with this train of thought.
Is a recording engineer who does not build his/her own recording/mixing/sound processing equipment an actual 'engineer' or a 'music recording technician'?
If you design an amplifier from scratch, procure all the parts and cabinetry, successfully build your design and find that it works well (plays music or whatever with low distortion and the projected power output into the load) are you an engineer, or are you an amp designer? What if you don't get paid for that amplifier design? Are you now a hobbyist?
Is a recording engineer who does not build his/her own recording/mixing/sound processing equipment an actual 'engineer' or a 'music recording technician'?
If you design an amplifier from scratch, procure all the parts and cabinetry, successfully build your design and find that it works well (plays music or whatever with low distortion and the projected power output into the load) are you an engineer, or are you an amp designer? What if you don't get paid for that amplifier design? Are you now a hobbyist?
I would argue given the creative process and the complexity of the tools used that the proper title for someone who does recording/mixing/sound shaping is a recording engineer or some variant of it. There are at least a few around here who could weigh in.
I am all of those things, engineer, amp designer and hobbyist.
I am all of those things, engineer, amp designer and hobbyist.
I am the latter two. I an not an engineer - those people went to university.
I design just as much based on datasheets as I do by trial and error. If I believed the datasheet, my amps wouldn't make the power they do with the sweep tubes I use. That kind of thing screwed me when I started playing with solid state - Absolute maximum means it, not like with tubes.
An engineer would know this of course... OTOH, an engineer would probably say my amp was impossible based on the datasheets 😛
I design just as much based on datasheets as I do by trial and error. If I believed the datasheet, my amps wouldn't make the power they do with the sweep tubes I use. That kind of thing screwed me when I started playing with solid state - Absolute maximum means it, not like with tubes.
An engineer would know this of course... OTOH, an engineer would probably say my amp was impossible based on the datasheets 😛
Finally! Someone addressed the central point of the post. It doesn't matter how we see them; it's about how they see themselves. There are exceptions, of course. But generally speaking, there is a definite tension/rivalry between singers-who-don't-play and players-who-don't sing. Most folks see them both as musicians, but they don't!
And I think it should be obvious that I was referring to performers and professionals, not amateurs and dabblers.
Many years ago, when I was building my classical music LP collection, and I didn't know the names of the various classical pieces, I used to go to music stores and whistle them to the sales guy; and I always got my record. Am I a musician?
If that fails, I also sing and play the guitar. 🙂
Sincerely,
Ralf
If that fails, I also sing and play the guitar. 🙂
Sincerely,
Ralf