I'm almost too embarraced to post the sketch, but I can't help thinking of it.
NO, IT'S NOT penis envy. No matter how it looks.
Basically it's a 3-way baffle-less dipole (or in some forms of minimal baffles). It can also be configured into 2.5 ~ 3.5 way. Hanging all the drivers in a swing would be a great idea. (not shown in the sketch)
The mid-high section uses 3 fullrangers (maybe 6~8in) in a vertical array. I'm thinking split-load xover -- the one at the center works from 160 (or 200) Hz and all the way up to the top. The other 2 work under 500Hz or so. Or this part can be a 'clean' 2way as long as the xover point is low enough.
The major goal here is simplicity, point source, and better mid-bass headroom than a single driver.
The woofers can be 2 x 15~18" in a horizontal array to utilise the floor loading, work under 160 (or 200) Hz. They can work in parallel, or 1.5way here -- one of them only work in the bottom octave, or the likes.
What do you think?
NO, IT'S NOT penis envy. No matter how it looks.
Basically it's a 3-way baffle-less dipole (or in some forms of minimal baffles). It can also be configured into 2.5 ~ 3.5 way. Hanging all the drivers in a swing would be a great idea. (not shown in the sketch)
The mid-high section uses 3 fullrangers (maybe 6~8in) in a vertical array. I'm thinking split-load xover -- the one at the center works from 160 (or 200) Hz and all the way up to the top. The other 2 work under 500Hz or so. Or this part can be a 'clean' 2way as long as the xover point is low enough.
The major goal here is simplicity, point source, and better mid-bass headroom than a single driver.
The woofers can be 2 x 15~18" in a horizontal array to utilise the floor loading, work under 160 (or 200) Hz. They can work in parallel, or 1.5way here -- one of them only work in the bottom octave, or the likes.
What do you think?
That's exactly what I would recommend too. Whether dome or planar tweeter would depend on your taste, resources etc.
Or how about this one:
Attachments
Thanks guys, all looking good
Actually I'm struggling to keep things simple (as possible) here.
Some background:
Besides my main system (horns + OB bass), I also use small speakers, and actually use them more often. I have a pair of Jordan fullragers in the bed room served as "wake-up call", their crisp and smooth sound give me a good mood every morning. I have another pair of small monitors used with TV and web radio which are active 2way Fostex (PM0.4). I feed them with line level shelving filters to suppress the overly bright HF to fit the space and my taste. Except for the sometimes annoying vented box sound around midbass, it's quite enjoyable - very wide dispersion, smooth and very detailed. They play the web radio almost all the time whenever I'm at home. These little toys fit in the low SPL casual listening perfectly.
The other day, I watched a concert by TV broadcast (with the little Fostex) and I turned them up quite a lot. Compared with their usual operations, they played very loud and more than enough to fill the room. The piano sounds played through these little boxes were very good indeed. The correctness and balance of tones, details in the strokes and pedal works... etc. were all very good. I was very impressed. (BTW, my mother is a piano teacher, so it's my most familiar musical instrument. )
Oh well, maybe the performance of the musician played a key role here...
Anyway, I'm thinking, why not 'simplify' my main system - make it smaller, let go of the insistence on ultra-high sensitivity, gain some excellent characters of the fullrangers...
Of course my main system now delivers a bigger picture, fuller and richer sound, goes much deeper and play cleaner in bass. I like my Oris horns in many ways, too. However the large c-c distance between midrange and tweeter is always a sore spot.
So I think of 3 fullrangers in an array and configure them as such that it maintain point source above 500Hz or so, and the other 2 helpers for both (vertical) dispersion control and dipole loss compensation.
This would be a "flat and dipole" Synergy horn! How about that?
Actually I'm struggling to keep things simple (as possible) here.
Some background:
Besides my main system (horns + OB bass), I also use small speakers, and actually use them more often. I have a pair of Jordan fullragers in the bed room served as "wake-up call", their crisp and smooth sound give me a good mood every morning. I have another pair of small monitors used with TV and web radio which are active 2way Fostex (PM0.4). I feed them with line level shelving filters to suppress the overly bright HF to fit the space and my taste. Except for the sometimes annoying vented box sound around midbass, it's quite enjoyable - very wide dispersion, smooth and very detailed. They play the web radio almost all the time whenever I'm at home. These little toys fit in the low SPL casual listening perfectly.
The other day, I watched a concert by TV broadcast (with the little Fostex) and I turned them up quite a lot. Compared with their usual operations, they played very loud and more than enough to fill the room. The piano sounds played through these little boxes were very good indeed. The correctness and balance of tones, details in the strokes and pedal works... etc. were all very good. I was very impressed. (BTW, my mother is a piano teacher, so it's my most familiar musical instrument. )
Oh well, maybe the performance of the musician played a key role here...
Anyway, I'm thinking, why not 'simplify' my main system - make it smaller, let go of the insistence on ultra-high sensitivity, gain some excellent characters of the fullrangers...
Of course my main system now delivers a bigger picture, fuller and richer sound, goes much deeper and play cleaner in bass. I like my Oris horns in many ways, too. However the large c-c distance between midrange and tweeter is always a sore spot.
So I think of 3 fullrangers in an array and configure them as such that it maintain point source above 500Hz or so, and the other 2 helpers for both (vertical) dispersion control and dipole loss compensation.
This would be a "flat and dipole" Synergy horn! How about that?
Hi StigErik,
I'll have some trouble in vertically stacking woofers, since I'd probably keep my 18"ers. 2 of them in vertical array is almost 1m high already, the whole speaker would be too high.
I'm not saying that's a bad design. I just have to consider other factors like visual impact in the low-ceiling room, and the earthquakes are quite frequent here. Besides, I live in an apartment at 13th floor. Last time, my suspended horns were swinging like two swings swung by 2 naughty boys. Quite scary.
If I make them all vertical, then it'll look very much like this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/130679-t-bass-drive-ob-lf-drivers-2.html#post1624170
I'll have some trouble in vertically stacking woofers, since I'd probably keep my 18"ers. 2 of them in vertical array is almost 1m high already, the whole speaker would be too high.
I'm not saying that's a bad design. I just have to consider other factors like visual impact in the low-ceiling room, and the earthquakes are quite frequent here. Besides, I live in an apartment at 13th floor. Last time, my suspended horns were swinging like two swings swung by 2 naughty boys. Quite scary.
If I make them all vertical, then it'll look very much like this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/130679-t-bass-drive-ob-lf-drivers-2.html#post1624170
It's a long overdue project.
I finally put it together, somewhat different from the original thinking, though. I aquired some ancient Yamaha drivers originally for electone - a kind of keyboard electronic musical instrument with a look of an organ.
There're two types -- 8" and 12". Both are measured similar -- high Q (1.x), high fs (80-90some Hz). As they are very old, more than 20-y-old according to the seller, and being used severely (in unknown conditions), so the parameters among units are not as consistent as modern new products.
I briefly tried them in another slim baffle OB, and I like their sound. Smooth, pretty detailed, good dynamics (but not very efficient). Being drivers for musical instrument, they are not 'exciting' at all. Very different from the Eminence guitar driver I played with some time ago.
Short travel, stiff suspension, generous cone area, all seem ideal for the baffle-less idea. So, here it is.
It's the minimum structure I can thick of. Each driver is kept in position by only 2 cable ties, and is sitting on the 'spine' by the magnet, so the ties don't carry the load.
Not finished and can't sing now.
Target response is set in 200 to 3kHz range, more or less. Filters are not done yet. preliminary plan is to keep the 8" running fullrange (as wide as it can) and the 12" creeping in below, say, 800Hz or so.
To be continued...
I finally put it together, somewhat different from the original thinking, though. I aquired some ancient Yamaha drivers originally for electone - a kind of keyboard electronic musical instrument with a look of an organ.
There're two types -- 8" and 12". Both are measured similar -- high Q (1.x), high fs (80-90some Hz). As they are very old, more than 20-y-old according to the seller, and being used severely (in unknown conditions), so the parameters among units are not as consistent as modern new products.
I briefly tried them in another slim baffle OB, and I like their sound. Smooth, pretty detailed, good dynamics (but not very efficient). Being drivers for musical instrument, they are not 'exciting' at all. Very different from the Eminence guitar driver I played with some time ago.
Short travel, stiff suspension, generous cone area, all seem ideal for the baffle-less idea. So, here it is.
It's the minimum structure I can thick of. Each driver is kept in position by only 2 cable ties, and is sitting on the 'spine' by the magnet, so the ties don't carry the load.
Not finished and can't sing now.
Target response is set in 200 to 3kHz range, more or less. Filters are not done yet. preliminary plan is to keep the 8" running fullrange (as wide as it can) and the 12" creeping in below, say, 800Hz or so.
To be continued...
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Hi there,
Thanks for the kind words. (and sorry I didn't come back and check)
Some updates.
It's WMWW soon after:
The flooder tweeters are unseen behind the array. And the passive crossover setup is:
Impedance scan:
(sorry, no decent frequency response measurement)
A lot of Zobels and all parallel make the impedance quite low at 2~3 Ohm overall. Don't worry though, it's now driven by the little Amp 6 (T-amp) without any problem.
Previous WMW can only reach slightly lower than 300Hz, and it's somewhat bright and thin sounding overall. Open and clean as you can imagine that a baffle-less dipole should be. I had to brought down the tweeter 2 or 3 dB to avoid overly bright.
The major lacking is in the low level tonal balance. When playing at moderate SPL or above, it's OK. But when the level is down, the balance turns much thinner. It looses it's bottom end too much at such situation.
No, it's not about Fletcher-Munson, it drops more than the equal loudness curve. I've experienced similar thing in previous naked and suspended woofers. Without support of any baffle, the dipole loss seems not linear along the dropping of SPL. Odd.
The last driver joint in the bottom made quite a lot of difference. The effect of the 3rd pair of 12" is much more than the proportion in number. Maybe because it's reaching near the floor, or more like a real array. They can reach below 100Hz in near field. (now it's limited by 160Hz HP filter in line level)
Playing loud, it is effortless and easily fills the room. (The central DML panel was not playing then. They were still more than enough.) I also have a feeling that these 12" contribute a large portion of punch to the range of higher bass. And no more thin sounding when playing quietly. The warmth and thickness in lower mid to midbass is well kept.
The final fine tune effort is mainly on the higher range of those 12". Keep them under 800Hz or so, it'd be mostly fine without detectable lobing. The side effect is a somewhat duller sound. Bringing them higher, than it's more vivid in midrange, but with some lobing effect gradually showing up, but never obvious. Now, from lying on the couch to standing up, it's alright without trouble of lobing.
Thanks for the kind words. (and sorry I didn't come back and check)
Some updates.
It's WMWW soon after:
The flooder tweeters are unseen behind the array. And the passive crossover setup is:
Impedance scan:
(sorry, no decent frequency response measurement)
A lot of Zobels and all parallel make the impedance quite low at 2~3 Ohm overall. Don't worry though, it's now driven by the little Amp 6 (T-amp) without any problem.
Previous WMW can only reach slightly lower than 300Hz, and it's somewhat bright and thin sounding overall. Open and clean as you can imagine that a baffle-less dipole should be. I had to brought down the tweeter 2 or 3 dB to avoid overly bright.
The major lacking is in the low level tonal balance. When playing at moderate SPL or above, it's OK. But when the level is down, the balance turns much thinner. It looses it's bottom end too much at such situation.
No, it's not about Fletcher-Munson, it drops more than the equal loudness curve. I've experienced similar thing in previous naked and suspended woofers. Without support of any baffle, the dipole loss seems not linear along the dropping of SPL. Odd.
The last driver joint in the bottom made quite a lot of difference. The effect of the 3rd pair of 12" is much more than the proportion in number. Maybe because it's reaching near the floor, or more like a real array. They can reach below 100Hz in near field. (now it's limited by 160Hz HP filter in line level)
Playing loud, it is effortless and easily fills the room. (The central DML panel was not playing then. They were still more than enough.) I also have a feeling that these 12" contribute a large portion of punch to the range of higher bass. And no more thin sounding when playing quietly. The warmth and thickness in lower mid to midbass is well kept.
The final fine tune effort is mainly on the higher range of those 12". Keep them under 800Hz or so, it'd be mostly fine without detectable lobing. The side effect is a somewhat duller sound. Bringing them higher, than it's more vivid in midrange, but with some lobing effect gradually showing up, but never obvious. Now, from lying on the couch to standing up, it's alright without trouble of lobing.
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Thank you
I like the color and texture, too. Those are all ready-made pine boards, sold in the hardware store in some certain dimensions. I chose what I need so I can save a lot of cutting work. Living in an apartment and don't have a proper shop, I have to build things with the least saw dust as possible.
@ DYNABLASTERTUNERS,
The waveguide-loaded tweeters are already lying on floor and upfiring. With very reflective concrete wall nearby, I suppose it's very close to rear firing practically.
By ears (and rough RTA scan), upfiring tweeters sound very much like omni. The brightness or tonal balance is well maintained anywhere in the room. However, I don't feel it's an ambience 'enhancer'. I'd like to describe it as life-like or naturally accurate.
There are quite some discussions, and this is one of them: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/121385-advantages-floor-coupled-up-firing-speakers.html
@Cal Weldon,
You're too far from me, so the shipping cost would be too high. I'll deal with the task myself. Thanks a lot your kindness and free service.
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