I'm preparing to finish building a stereo loudspeaker pair similar to the 4 way Dunlavy SC VI. What I have completed is a 3 way wmtmw.
I learned from Andrew Rigby (Dunlavy's rep) that the 15" subs used by Dunlavy were custom made by Eminence. Paper cones,rubber surrounds and very heavy magnets.
Browsing through the Madisound pages, nothing appears to come close to the Dunlavy's performance. Their Eminence 15" woofers, although paper coned with cloth surrounds do not go very low when run through simulations. Although, they seem to be lighter with good acceleration rates.
Does anyone here know "exactly" which sub was used in the SC VI or it's specs or, any reasonably close 15" subwoofer substitute to be used in a sealed box. Two per side?
I learned from Andrew Rigby (Dunlavy's rep) that the 15" subs used by Dunlavy were custom made by Eminence. Paper cones,rubber surrounds and very heavy magnets.
Browsing through the Madisound pages, nothing appears to come close to the Dunlavy's performance. Their Eminence 15" woofers, although paper coned with cloth surrounds do not go very low when run through simulations. Although, they seem to be lighter with good acceleration rates.
Does anyone here know "exactly" which sub was used in the SC VI or it's specs or, any reasonably close 15" subwoofer substitute to be used in a sealed box. Two per side?
What performance?!
Indicate your objectives.
Yours volume (net) per woofer/driver for the case of a sealed (or BR).
Indicates your needed sensitivity (woofer and subs) if not active amplified sub, with passive crossover. If it is active sub then doesn't matter.
The Eminence Lab12 is not made off "rubber surrounds" but a lot of people praise it's performances.
Eminence Lab12 in a 60L and up (70/80) sealed enclosure would give you F3 43 Hz.
Prosound Network: Dunlavy SC-IAV Speaker SC-S1 Subwoofer System
Dunlavy Audio Labs Speakers | The Emotiva Lounge
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.audio.high-end/xiS7Mp-M610
Thanks for the reply and links.
The subs will be built into a separate enclosure and stand next to my other speakers in order to place the sub drivers one above and one below my existing wmtmw arrangement.
This way I can hopefully, imitate the Dunlavy VI without rebuilding two new cabinets.
A QTC of between .6 to .8. Between six to nine cubic feet for each driver.
All sealed.
Am currently using an active 3 way analog Marchand crossover.
It has adjustable points and gain.
Will add a fourth crossover and suitable amp.
Thanks also for your advice on the Eminence 12".
The subs will be built into a separate enclosure and stand next to my other speakers in order to place the sub drivers one above and one below my existing wmtmw arrangement.
This way I can hopefully, imitate the Dunlavy VI without rebuilding two new cabinets.
A QTC of between .6 to .8. Between six to nine cubic feet for each driver.
All sealed.
Am currently using an active 3 way analog Marchand crossover.
It has adjustable points and gain.
Will add a fourth crossover and suitable amp.
Thanks also for your advice on the Eminence 12".
I thought they were McCauley woofers
edit ... that would be 18"
but there now is a 15" Lab15
specs seems a bit weird to me
highish 28Hz Fs and still only 90db SPL 😕
looks like a design error to me ... too heavy, and too stiff
I wrote Andrew Rigby about which drivers were used by Dunlavy back around 1998 if I remember correctly. At that particular point in time, all of the drivers being used were Vifa brand. Including the 12" subs in the SCV. The exception was the 15" subs in the VI being "custom made Eminence".
It is highly possible that drivers were changed for various reasons.
Example the SCIV which used Morel,Vifa, and finally Scanspeak 8565 10" for the SCIV/A.
I just haven't been able to find a really good 15" sub that would imitate the performance of the VI.
For fun and knowledge, I have been finding and reading any info on Dunlavy's journey to produce the perfect loudspeaker.
His Milenium got great reviews with it's X shape and 10" woofers.
The most intriguing was his experimental "Magnus" which skipped the baffle steps and used DSP,oval shaped cabinets and all Class A amplifiers.
Thanks for your reply.
It is highly possible that drivers were changed for various reasons.
Example the SCIV which used Morel,Vifa, and finally Scanspeak 8565 10" for the SCIV/A.
I just haven't been able to find a really good 15" sub that would imitate the performance of the VI.
For fun and knowledge, I have been finding and reading any info on Dunlavy's journey to produce the perfect loudspeaker.
His Milenium got great reviews with it's X shape and 10" woofers.
The most intriguing was his experimental "Magnus" which skipped the baffle steps and used DSP,oval shaped cabinets and all Class A amplifiers.
Thanks for your reply.
My favorite reasonably priced 15" sub driver is this one:
Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Co | 295-514
Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Co | 295-514
Drivers are very much size/volume dependent. If you need an answer for your sealed sub please state your net volume just like I asked you in the first place (the extension you need would be nice also). We can give you the drivers that most approximate the specs you are in need. This from a running manufacturer product available, not OEM, which that you need to design & to buy at the hundreds of product units. There's also some OEMs for sale sometimes in some markets like in PE. Both are made for sealed loudspeakers. Who said they don't make them anymore?
ESS 689-1220 12" Cast Frame Woofer Speaker | 264-622
ESS 689-1012 10" Cast Frame Woofer Speaker | 264-620
This type of statement requires some type of support don't you think?.
If you don't answer our questions, how are we going to help you?! 😎
I don't own a Dunlavy SC VI nor have I ever auditioned one.
I was thoroughly impressed by the Stereophile Magazine review of it that I sought to copy it and build it myself.
What I did build was the SCVI minus the 15" subwoofers.
A passive preamp,Marchand 3 way adjustable active crossover and 3 Adcom 5800 amplifiers power it in a tri amplified configuration.
I never completed my "clones" because I was never able to locate subs that were adequate.
The only information and specification comes from a Stereophile magazine back issue review.
The applicable specs given for the loudspeakers were:
" 25HZ to 20 KHz plus/minus 0.5 DB."
" Aproximate minus 3 DB at 20 HZ."
" Low frequency damping : Q of 0.6"
" SPL of 90 DB at 1 meter for all frequencies above 40 HZ"
Calculating box volumes using a Q of .6 for the pairs of 5" mids and the 8" mids leaves an approximate box volume for each single 15" subwoofer of 8 cubic feet or, 226 cubic liters. An approximation using the review's given box dimensions.
As I stated early on, I had received a very nice reply back around 98' from Dunlavy's acting representative that the 15" subwoofers they were using in the SCVI at that time were "custom made Eminence". He did not elaborate.
I have to admit that subs that are flat down to 25 Decibels with a Minus 3 Decibel point in a sealed box are pretty impressive.
If you can steer me in the direction of any manufacturer's 15" driver or any other size driver that matches these specs., I would sincerely appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
I was thoroughly impressed by the Stereophile Magazine review of it that I sought to copy it and build it myself.
What I did build was the SCVI minus the 15" subwoofers.
A passive preamp,Marchand 3 way adjustable active crossover and 3 Adcom 5800 amplifiers power it in a tri amplified configuration.
I never completed my "clones" because I was never able to locate subs that were adequate.
The only information and specification comes from a Stereophile magazine back issue review.
The applicable specs given for the loudspeakers were:
" 25HZ to 20 KHz plus/minus 0.5 DB."
" Aproximate minus 3 DB at 20 HZ."
" Low frequency damping : Q of 0.6"
" SPL of 90 DB at 1 meter for all frequencies above 40 HZ"
Calculating box volumes using a Q of .6 for the pairs of 5" mids and the 8" mids leaves an approximate box volume for each single 15" subwoofer of 8 cubic feet or, 226 cubic liters. An approximation using the review's given box dimensions.
As I stated early on, I had received a very nice reply back around 98' from Dunlavy's acting representative that the 15" subwoofers they were using in the SCVI at that time were "custom made Eminence". He did not elaborate.
I have to admit that subs that are flat down to 25 Decibels with a Minus 3 Decibel point in a sealed box are pretty impressive.
If you can steer me in the direction of any manufacturer's 15" driver or any other size driver that matches these specs., I would sincerely appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
Hi speedygg1,
There's a few drivers that come close to your specs, from a short list, with F3 ~30Hz. They are, for the sake of examples, Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax, Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference, MTX RT15-04...
Now Dunlavy SC VI - Stereophile.
You notice the rolling of at -5dB at 20Hz (pic). I'm sure you can achieve that with driver AE Speakers IB15HT.
You can talk with John Janowitz (in this Forum) from Acoustic Elegance, if you need some detailed info or maybe some OEM if that's the case. 😱
Nick Barnett's Recording Studio Monitors done by John Janowitz and Mark Seaton
There's a few drivers that come close to your specs, from a short list, with F3 ~30Hz. They are, for the sake of examples, Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax, Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference, MTX RT15-04...
Now Dunlavy SC VI - Stereophile.
You notice the rolling of at -5dB at 20Hz (pic). I'm sure you can achieve that with driver AE Speakers IB15HT.
You can talk with John Janowitz (in this Forum) from Acoustic Elegance, if you need some detailed info or maybe some OEM if that's the case. 😱
Nick Barnett's Recording Studio Monitors done by John Janowitz and Mark Seaton
Attachments
I doubt it matters much
just choose what matches your speaker
any chance to see pictures ?
The Stereo Integrity HT and new HTS drivers (yet to be added to their website) seem to have low Fs, if that's any help?
Stereo Integrity | HT Subwoofers
Stereo Integrity | HT Subwoofers
A quick thank you to everyone that replied to my sub woofer questions.
After reading thorough them I think I'm going to use the Parts Express RSS390 15" aluminum cone driver. I'll try to post pictures of my completed speakers at a later date.
Again, thanks!
After reading thorough them I think I'm going to use the Parts Express RSS390 15" aluminum cone driver. I'll try to post pictures of my completed speakers at a later date.
Again, thanks!
speedygg1,
Are you using a passive xover, what drivers (8") are you using?! One driver (Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4) is about 90.5 dB/2.83V/m. You will need (w/sealed) about good 140.0 W/4 Ohms (RMS) amp each.
Are you using a passive xover, what drivers (8") are you using?! One driver (Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4) is about 90.5 dB/2.83V/m. You will need (w/sealed) about good 140.0 W/4 Ohms (RMS) amp each.
Attachments
Last edited:
Hello again.
My loudspeakers copy the Dunlavy SCVI. Minus the dual 15" subs.
Drivers are: Dynaudio D-28 AF tweeters.
Vifa P13WH 008 5" mids
Scan Speak 22W/8534 GO 08 8" Woofers. (These were installed as replacements for Vifa M22 8" woofers which failed and are no longer produced).
Like the Dunlavy's, the tweeter and mids are recessed and surrounded by wool felt in layers. The chambers are filled with open cell foam.
Using the passive volume control of an Adcom GCP 750 preamp.
Feeds two Marchand Electronics XM-6 Active Crossovers in line with each other to give two separate crossover points that are variable and volume controlled.
A tri amped set up with 3 Adcom 5800 amps.
My next step is to add dual 15" subs which will require another active crossover.
Considering either another Marchand crossover or a Mini DSP 4 x 10 which has 3 stereo crossover points. Undecided between digital or analog active xovers.
I am fairly happy with what I am hearing now.
Very wide soundstage and reasonable depth.
However, it lacks deep bass and clarity of instruments like cymbals, snare drums and voices.
Appreciate your knowledgable experience and input.
Thanks again.
My loudspeakers copy the Dunlavy SCVI. Minus the dual 15" subs.
Drivers are: Dynaudio D-28 AF tweeters.
Vifa P13WH 008 5" mids
Scan Speak 22W/8534 GO 08 8" Woofers. (These were installed as replacements for Vifa M22 8" woofers which failed and are no longer produced).
Like the Dunlavy's, the tweeter and mids are recessed and surrounded by wool felt in layers. The chambers are filled with open cell foam.
Using the passive volume control of an Adcom GCP 750 preamp.
Feeds two Marchand Electronics XM-6 Active Crossovers in line with each other to give two separate crossover points that are variable and volume controlled.
A tri amped set up with 3 Adcom 5800 amps.
My next step is to add dual 15" subs which will require another active crossover.
Considering either another Marchand crossover or a Mini DSP 4 x 10 which has 3 stereo crossover points. Undecided between digital or analog active xovers.
I am fairly happy with what I am hearing now.
Very wide soundstage and reasonable depth.
However, it lacks deep bass and clarity of instruments like cymbals, snare drums and voices.
Appreciate your knowledgable experience and input.
Thanks again.
a single mono sub with 18" Aurasound, in closed box
and a plateamp, crossed somewhere around 50hz
and a plateamp, crossed somewhere around 50hz
how can yo be reasonably happy with something that lacks clarity for cymbals, snares, AND voices?
Since there's no Dunlavy Audio anymore, Eminence can make you some if there's no current legal restraint on the design.
GM
GM
It would be interesting to have the Eminence specs, if not a trade secret, to compare with existent drivers, mainly with the AE Speakers IB15HT (with same LF extension).
I see there is a problem there with the crossover (most certainly), as sine143 in the previous post called the attention for. Usually derived from the inability to transfer the passive xover to multi-amp, but here I can be mistaken but is what comes to my mind, without reading about it (model speaker) or checking further.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.