thinking of the excellent Peerless XXLS(seen them going cheap)... was hoping they might be good if used a high power mid/bass driver??
Certainly, subwoofers can be used just like any other driver. Just like using any other woofer make sure to crossover well before any cone break up occurs. So I would think it depends more on the matching of the mid-bass driver and subwoofer.
Joe
Joe
Peerless XXLS might be one exception that actually would work like 'ordinary' woofer
maybe because it is more woofer than a sub thing
Ground Sound
maybe because it is more woofer than a sub thing
Ground Sound
That design is v helpful. I think a mid/bass with a higher power rating would be beneficial. The outgoing XXLS seems to be more suited, lighter cone, higher sensitivity.
Any idea what drive units this uses? http://www.acousticzen.com/maestro.html
I use AV15Xs from AE speakers in 3-way full range deisgns.
Make sure the Le value is low so that you have linearity in the higher frequencies.
Make sure the Le value is low so that you have linearity in the higher frequencies.
Or,
You could use your Peerless as a sub in a design such as this with a plate amp.
FYI
Custom Walnut Planetarium Alphas
You could use your Peerless as a sub in a design such as this with a plate amp.
FYI
Custom Walnut Planetarium Alphas
I have experience with this. Here are some tips.
BTW, I have four Peerless XLS-10” woofers on sale at my sale page. Ask me why they are as good as the XXLS version.
Philip Bamberg
BESL
- The higher the cross point, the more important it is to use subwoofers in stereo pairs.
- The higher the cross point, the more important it is for the subwoofer driver to face forward.
- The lower the cross point, the more complicated and expensive the passive crossover circuitry for the midwoofer becomes.
- First ascertain the behavior of the subwoofer driver with increasing frequency. The Peerless XLS cone behaves well enough, but the wide surround resonates at 600Hz. This is true for most wide surround woofers. You will want to cross the woofer no higher than an octave below the trouble frequency. In this example, 300Hz would be OK.
- Next, consider the sensitivity difference between the subwoofer and the midrange driver. Generally, a good performing subwoofer driver is less sensitive than the typical midrange woofer. If you vertically bi-amp the speaker with two identical stereo amplifiers, you can attenuate the monitor amp sections with Harrison inline attenuators. Same for horizontal bi-amping with two different amplifiers.
- But a sufficiently large sensitivity difference will be problematic for a fully passive 3-way crossover. You need to consider separately powering the subs with plate amps, or separate amp and active crossover.
- Venting the subwoofer helps the sensitivity issue. Fire the vent out the back to prevent midrange leakage. Tuning the cabinet low can be challenging with vent lengths and areas, mechanical layout, etc.
- Finally, EQ may be needed to get the subwoofer section to measure flat. This is also more challenging with a fully passive crossover.
BTW, I have four Peerless XLS-10” woofers on sale at my sale page. Ask me why they are as good as the XXLS version.
Philip Bamberg
BESL
Thanks for this Philip; I was thinking to cross at around 300 - one idea is to use the rather expensive Morel carbon rohacell mid/bass, at least its bullet proof. I'm hunting around for the best price (UK)
The sensitivity of the 'old' XXLS(which I prefer) is 90 I think, and the bass output rises at around 60-150hz so I did think to rear fire the port and damp it abit. I'm trying to choose drivers which are all similar sensitivity but the Morel is 6 ohm, not sure if that is an issue.
what order x/o would you recommend at 300hz?
The sensitivity of the 'old' XXLS(which I prefer) is 90 I think, and the bass output rises at around 60-150hz so I did think to rear fire the port and damp it abit. I'm trying to choose drivers which are all similar sensitivity but the Morel is 6 ohm, not sure if that is an issue.
what order x/o would you recommend at 300hz?
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Impedance is always an issue, never truer than with 3-ways. The problem is that both the midrange and sub woofers have their minimum impedance in the 200Hz region. Keeping the cross point high-ish (~300Hz) may end up side-stepping the problem.
Also, your SPL model graphs will illustrate the ~1-decade bandpass for the midrange. I.e. 300-3000 Hz on the midrange is one decade in frequency. The midrange appears to never be flat. It is humped at 1k, but is rolling of on either side. That is normal.
Good summation is very important.
Also, your SPL model graphs will illustrate the ~1-decade bandpass for the midrange. I.e. 300-3000 Hz on the midrange is one decade in frequency. The midrange appears to never be flat. It is humped at 1k, but is rolling of on either side. That is normal.
Good summation is very important.
I will draw up the design tonight- I am thinking to split into 2 cabs per side. The cabinet for the Peerless drivers need to be pretty huge and I want a slim look, so to maximise the height I am placing the tweeter under the mid. Not sure what tweet to use, was looking at Scanspeak R3004 but its 4 ohm.
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Are you considering the Peerless 10" or 12"? I like the 10, because it has the same basic performance as the 12. The max SPL is not as high, but the cabinet volume is much less. 2cF works quite well, tuned to <20Hz. If you don't have a huge room, a pair of 10's will do nicely. Such was found to be the case in the recent review of my Series 5 TMW at Dagogo - A Unique Audiophile Experience.
Originally I had the same concern as you about 4ohm tweeters. But there are a couple of advantages. Extra sensitivity (if you need it), and a little better extension. I can show you a way to raise the impedance and still get the HP transfer function you need.
If you have Skype, we could discuss your project over the phone.
Phil
Originally I had the same concern as you about 4ohm tweeters. But there are a couple of advantages. Extra sensitivity (if you need it), and a little better extension. I can show you a way to raise the impedance and still get the HP transfer function you need.
If you have Skype, we could discuss your project over the phone.
Phil
Ideally 2 x 10"s each side make more sense; budget means that I can't ignore the 12" deal I saw. My brains a bit fried from researching 100s of drive units over the last week.. planar tweets, ceramic mids etc
Thanks for all your help, my skype address is will.wmd - I will try to be on there 2 to 3 gmt and later on too.
Thanks for all your help, my skype address is will.wmd - I will try to be on there 2 to 3 gmt and later on too.
Here is a pic of something I quickly threw together. It uses an ApexJr Super8 driver in a sealed enclosure. It is an active design, so there was no problem with impedances. The main consideration with using a subwoofer, especially in a 3-way, is the typically low sensitivity of most sub drivers. In some loudspeakers manufacturers have opted to install a dedicated plate amplifier just to drive the sub, to mitigate the low sensitivity.
And the response. Ignore the crazy red equalisation curve (it is the summed response of the crossover): I was just using the DSP that way "because I can".
Edit: Oops: the most important part. The Super8 really surprised me this application. It was quite good; the amplifier gave out way before it did.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And the response. Ignore the crazy red equalisation curve (it is the summed response of the crossover): I was just using the DSP that way "because I can".
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Edit: Oops: the most important part. The Super8 really surprised me this application. It was quite good; the amplifier gave out way before it did.
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The Peerless seems to be an exception to the rule. Cowan uses it in his Unity horns, a 3 way the requires the subs to run up to 300 Hz.
Cowan Unity Horn Speakers
Cowan Unity Horn Speakers
If the driver is appropriate, you may also want to use dual subs in a 3.5 way, with the woofer nearest the midrange handling BSC.
Bill if your interested in the XLS 10" I have a new and unused pair here that I'd let go for £120. These are the same drivers used by Linkwitz in his Orion design so will play slightly higher than most subs. I've used a number of these drivers over the years and they're one of my favourites in the flexibility they offer - sealed, PR, ported or even open baffle with some EQ. They work particularly well in around 27ltrs sealed with very good in room response down to 25-30hz with this configuration. Alternatively if you've got any decent 8" drivers I'd be interested in a trade.
Thanks everyone
Shaun and Paul, great designs! ps Paul awesome room, you def need a bigger TV lol
Shinobiwan, I will check out the XLS and let you know later but I'm pretty set on the XXLS; the enclosure volume for the design as it stands is well into triple figures. Where are you in uk? daan saaaf?
Had a look at PEBs design last night, check it out its pretty impressive.
Rock Lee, if there is no baffle ie curved enclosure, will I need BSC?
Shaun and Paul, great designs! ps Paul awesome room, you def need a bigger TV lol
Shinobiwan, I will check out the XLS and let you know later but I'm pretty set on the XXLS; the enclosure volume for the design as it stands is well into triple figures. Where are you in uk? daan saaaf?
Had a look at PEBs design last night, check it out its pretty impressive.
Rock Lee, if there is no baffle ie curved enclosure, will I need BSC?
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Cool stuff!! Do you have any measurements of just the Super8?? I have a small application that Im thinking that woofer will might work very well in.
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