My last post on modding my speakers leads me to wonder:
Why not just remove all the guts and rebuild with new drivers and an active crossover like the Velodyne? Or do so with cabinets I build or buy from Madisound? Is there magic in manufacturers' speakers I can never get near?
Thanks.
Why not just remove all the guts and rebuild with new drivers and an active crossover like the Velodyne? Or do so with cabinets I build or buy from Madisound? Is there magic in manufacturers' speakers I can never get near?
Thanks.
The only "magic" is their capabilities in measurements and engineering. But don't discount the importance of these two factors and don't believe for a minute that the price is any indication of the manufacturers abilities in these areas. Great measurements can be done at home and great engineers do not necessarilly work at any of these companies. In general the more they spend on marketing the less that they are spending on engineering and the more "magic" that they claim, the less likely they are to have a soldidly engineeered product.
Yes - you can build up some great speakers. Simply tossing some new drivers into an existing box - well it can be done - but having it sound decent is a long shot IMO.
Some have success stuffing drivers into existing box's with the econowaves. Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
There several web sites that list and show DIY speakers and many of the designs will result in high quality sound reproduction. Some are costly and some are for the "budget minded". Some are floor standers and others are monitor sized. Depends on what type of speaker and sound you are looking for.
One thing is for sure - a good speaker is the result of careful design - some degree of prototype development - and the use of good drivers (and there are good drivers available for reasonable prices).
Good luck with your project...... 😀😀😀
Something that many forget is that even the best speaker designers didn't suddenly spring from the head of Zeus fully formed and ready to go.
Nearly every one of them started off from nothing and developed their skill as they went, just like anyone else. I know a number of designers that have achieved international recognition who, not too many years ago, were themselves DIY Speaker builders.
There is a lot to learn and always new ways to to use existing knowledge, so it does (at least to those of us that like this stuff) remain an interesting hobby.
As Henry Ford once opined:
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, either way you're probably right."
Best Regards,
TerryO
Nearly every one of them started off from nothing and developed their skill as they went, just like anyone else. I know a number of designers that have achieved international recognition who, not too many years ago, were themselves DIY Speaker builders.
There is a lot to learn and always new ways to to use existing knowledge, so it does (at least to those of us that like this stuff) remain an interesting hobby.
As Henry Ford once opined:
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, either way you're probably right."
Best Regards,
TerryO
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I'm assembling a kit now (first timer) and if I look at the quality of the components, I can't help but be impressed. I've had a look at the shop's anechoic chamber, so I don't think they just throw some parts together and call it a kit either.
The magic of manufacturer's speakers are the superlatives devised by the marketing department. To me the real magic is in assembling high quality parts myself and end up with a fantastic sound for half the money...
Thank you all.
Given that throwing darts at components in the Madisound catalogue, then having my neighbor's son use his etch-a-sketch to make up the cabinet plans, may result in a sub-optimal performance..... from what you've said I guess one could either do a lot of trial an error, going through a lot of wood and drivers, OR study the underlying engineering, and design from first principles. OR both.
It would be great if there were a web site that already had the engineering and experience programmed in, and lists of available components. Then it would query you about tonal preferences, room size, amp type, music preferences, speakers you've like or not, and pop out a design just for you.
It sounds like a great hobby to play with building speakers until they get decent, but I have no time for it....my impression I get here is I'm likely to be unsatisfied unless I build a pre-designed kit...is that a fair assessment?
While the process sounds fun, my objective is the end-goal, the good sounding speakers.
Thanks again.
Given that throwing darts at components in the Madisound catalogue, then having my neighbor's son use his etch-a-sketch to make up the cabinet plans, may result in a sub-optimal performance..... from what you've said I guess one could either do a lot of trial an error, going through a lot of wood and drivers, OR study the underlying engineering, and design from first principles. OR both.
It would be great if there were a web site that already had the engineering and experience programmed in, and lists of available components. Then it would query you about tonal preferences, room size, amp type, music preferences, speakers you've like or not, and pop out a design just for you.
It sounds like a great hobby to play with building speakers until they get decent, but I have no time for it....my impression I get here is I'm likely to be unsatisfied unless I build a pre-designed kit...is that a fair assessment?
While the process sounds fun, my objective is the end-goal, the good sounding speakers.
Thanks again.
That's the fun part!!!
There isn't any software that I know of that will guide you to the speaker that is right for your needs and listening preference. You will need to decide on what type of speaker will fill your needs as per above. But you would need to make those same decisions if you were to purchase pre-built speakers anyway. Do you have a good idea of what type of speaker it is that you are after? That would help quite a bit.
If you don't have the time to dig in and study stuff right now then it is a fair assessment, and there are some pretty decent kits to be built.
Take a look here - not a bad place to start - there are many others but let's keep it simple for right now... Zaph|Audio
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You can get something like this: Jenzen CA for about $1200. The cabinets look like a real bitch, but all the engineering is done for you and I am betting they sound as good or better than commercially sold $5000+ speakers if built right.
I recall reading once that the average manufactured commercially available speaker has only 10-15% of its list price put into drivers/crossovers.
I am actually considering this myself.
There is some magic here I think 🙂
I recall reading once that the average manufactured commercially available speaker has only 10-15% of its list price put into drivers/crossovers.
I am actually considering this myself.
There is some magic here I think 🙂
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I wouldn't say its necessary to start with a pre made kit. But a tried and tested design is definitely a good place to start.
this saves you the time and expense of experimenting while still being rewarded by creating something with your own hands.
The cool thing about the popular designs is that even the cheap ones are generally better than anything 3 times the price.
my first two builds were Paul Carmody's Overnight sensations and Classix.
next im thinking of tackling a Troels Gravesen design
this saves you the time and expense of experimenting while still being rewarded by creating something with your own hands.
The cool thing about the popular designs is that even the cheap ones are generally better than anything 3 times the price.
my first two builds were Paul Carmody's Overnight sensations and Classix.
next im thinking of tackling a Troels Gravesen design
Hehe 😀
On component quality. If you were to get some middle of the road drivers (selected for the task), and some generic cabinets, I would pin more hope on getting this to sound good just by putting in the work, than I would buying expensive parts and not knowing what to do with them. the magic is not necessarily in the parts.
In your situation I would consider a prior design, but I would research carefully. I would attach importance to some of the following things. The configuration, including the number, size and type of driver (there's more than meets the eye). I'd also research the designer. Are they biased, and is this a good thing in their case? Are they obsessed with component quality? Do they know what they are doing or are they just presenting their casual projects in a good light?
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What everybody is saying is that there is a lot of reading and researching to do before you end up with a good design. But don't be afraid to jump in. Pick something that you like, and make sure you have got enough support in case you need help. Folks here are pretty helpful too.
The full range driver design on this website (check the articles section) is pretty good option as well.
Troels has good projects:
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
For high quality sound, I'd recommend one of the econowave builds. It is hard to beat even by hi-end standards.
The full range driver design on this website (check the articles section) is pretty good option as well.
Troels has good projects:
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
For high quality sound, I'd recommend one of the econowave builds. It is hard to beat even by hi-end standards.
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There's more to a crossover, even an active one, than buying some electronics.
Or do so with cabinets I build or buy from Madisound?
Well many manufacturers try to sell you all sorts of wierd flavors and marketing B.S.
DIYers who document the thinking behind their builds, won't sell you marketing B.S. Whether you prefer what they're making, I don't know, but the value in building a good designer's speaker is high.
...or build an established design!!
Why should a speaker (RE-production tool) have any tonality of its own?
Yes, but there's lots of amazing pre-designed speakers out there.
If you don't mind the construction, then DIY. If the construction is intimidating or unexciting, then just buy commercial speakers.
AllenB said:
What he said. There's some good drivers out there, that don't cost an arm and a leg. They might look ugly out of the box, but work 'em correctly and results can be outstanding.
Life isn't that easy. Buying or building the right speakers for your personal preferences and acoustics situation is probably the hardest part of setting up a good sound system.
If you built a kit without ever having heard it, that would indeed be a fair assessment.
The shop I bought my kit from has rooms where you can listen to the various models and they will give a set on loan to try out in your own living room.
Those two steps are requirements if you want to end up with good sounding speakers, and of course the same applies to manufactured speakers.
Obviously.
It's a BRAVE MAN or WOMAN that builds a DIY speaker.
A few are real masterpieces - most are DIYers strutting their ground proving that they can save a few bucks.
E-Bay for Second Hand proven designs can be far more lucrative.
A few are real masterpieces - most are DIYers strutting their ground proving that they can save a few bucks.
E-Bay for Second Hand proven designs can be far more lucrative.
I find some of Paul Carmody's designs decent (and very inexpensive) and I've build a few of them.
undefinition
I've built the ZX Spectrum, the Classix II and the Overnight sensation (with a different tweeter and some crossover tweaking)
Zaph|Audio has some great designs, some of them are the kits you find at madisound.
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Troels has some fantastic designs as well, however some of these lean toward the expensive side for a first project.
undefinition
I've built the ZX Spectrum, the Classix II and the Overnight sensation (with a different tweeter and some crossover tweaking)
Zaph|Audio has some great designs, some of them are the kits you find at madisound.
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Troels has some fantastic designs as well, however some of these lean toward the expensive side for a first project.
For a small space Linkwitz Pluto 2.1 has made me very, very happy.
PLUTO-2.1 omni-directional loudspeaker
If you can find all the correct value components (no kit to speak of) solder lots of small electronic components (active design), make basic woodwork boxes and cut tubes to length then they should make you very happy too.
Another interesting option:
http://www.audioartistry.com/products_CBT.htm
Troels active OB's look interesting too.
PLUTO-2.1 omni-directional loudspeaker
If you can find all the correct value components (no kit to speak of) solder lots of small electronic components (active design), make basic woodwork boxes and cut tubes to length then they should make you very happy too.
Another interesting option:
http://www.audioartistry.com/products_CBT.htm
Troels active OB's look interesting too.
I think that it's a brave man who spend good money on HiFi. I don't think that there is any guarantee that if you purchase some 'high' end named speakers that you will be satisfied. At least if you build your own (hard work) you know what's in it. Some of the British cottage industry 'HiFi' has been fit for the skip and in no way justified the price.
It's difficult to evaluate speakers in a shop though it's possible to weed out the complete rubbish. I haven't bought a review magazine for years but they weren't very useful either.
Second hand could be good but the speakers could have suffered abuse and spares can be difficult to obtain.
I wasn't very impressed with what was available 15 years ago when I was looking for some reasonable floor standing loudspeakers and was prepared to pay a 4 figure sum. I think that the higher end loudspeakers sell in small numbers so inevitably the value for money is poor.
I ended up building a pair of Focal C800 speakers and am happy with them. Unfortunately I don't think that Focal sell drivers and supply designs any more. I would guess that the SEAS designs have been engineered properly.
It's difficult to evaluate speakers in a shop though it's possible to weed out the complete rubbish. I haven't bought a review magazine for years but they weren't very useful either.
Second hand could be good but the speakers could have suffered abuse and spares can be difficult to obtain.
I wasn't very impressed with what was available 15 years ago when I was looking for some reasonable floor standing loudspeakers and was prepared to pay a 4 figure sum. I think that the higher end loudspeakers sell in small numbers so inevitably the value for money is poor.
I ended up building a pair of Focal C800 speakers and am happy with them. Unfortunately I don't think that Focal sell drivers and supply designs any more. I would guess that the SEAS designs have been engineered properly.
I was looking at the Linkwitz Orion until I saw the choice of amplifier used.
Class D just doesn't cook the biscuit with me. I would like a design where I can choose the ampflication.
Class D just doesn't cook the biscuit with me. I would like a design where I can choose the ampflication.
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