Hi All, I'm completely confused with the whole idea and would really appreciate some advice.
I have installed an Audison F8.9 DSP/AMP and 3-way active front stage in my car using Audison VOCE tweets, mids, and midbass.
Also an Audison Prima APBX 10 AS2 Active Sub
I also have the Audison BCON wireless streamer and have connected that to the DSP to stream music from my phone (Samsung S23 Ultra) into the BCON and straight to the DSP via Optical Toslink.
The BCON is certified HIRES and I've been feeding it LDAC.
I'm really happy with the sound quality as it is (I've finally After many months managed to tune the sysyem using REW) and it sounds great, but as with anything you always wonder if there is more you can squeeze out?
My question is will I hear any benefit from replacing my phone with a DAP or using my phone with a USB Dongle?
I was just about to purchase an A&K S35 but then realised it doesn't have optical output on its 3.5mm jack!
Do any of you have any recommendations on the best route to go down to upgrade the source? As I understand from reviews of the Samsung S23 Ultra that the audio ability of the DAC isn't very good......
I see there DAP, DAC, USB dongles, and then there is the Fiio Q11 which appears to have optical output? But it also is a DAC/AMP will the AMP part of it blow my DSP if plugged into optical toslink?
And I also don't quite understand if I even need to get a new source or if I just need a USB C to Toslink connector and then feed that from my phone directly to the Audison F8.9 DSP as that 'may' already have a DAC built in and may be better to use that? I've done some reading and can't see if it has a built in DAC?
Link to my DSP is here
https://www.fourcaraudio.co.uk/brands/audison/audison-prima/audison-prima-ap-f89-bit
I have installed an Audison F8.9 DSP/AMP and 3-way active front stage in my car using Audison VOCE tweets, mids, and midbass.
Also an Audison Prima APBX 10 AS2 Active Sub
I also have the Audison BCON wireless streamer and have connected that to the DSP to stream music from my phone (Samsung S23 Ultra) into the BCON and straight to the DSP via Optical Toslink.
The BCON is certified HIRES and I've been feeding it LDAC.
I'm really happy with the sound quality as it is (I've finally After many months managed to tune the sysyem using REW) and it sounds great, but as with anything you always wonder if there is more you can squeeze out?
My question is will I hear any benefit from replacing my phone with a DAP or using my phone with a USB Dongle?
I was just about to purchase an A&K S35 but then realised it doesn't have optical output on its 3.5mm jack!
Do any of you have any recommendations on the best route to go down to upgrade the source? As I understand from reviews of the Samsung S23 Ultra that the audio ability of the DAC isn't very good......
I see there DAP, DAC, USB dongles, and then there is the Fiio Q11 which appears to have optical output? But it also is a DAC/AMP will the AMP part of it blow my DSP if plugged into optical toslink?
And I also don't quite understand if I even need to get a new source or if I just need a USB C to Toslink connector and then feed that from my phone directly to the Audison F8.9 DSP as that 'may' already have a DAC built in and may be better to use that? I've done some reading and can't see if it has a built in DAC?
Link to my DSP is here
https://www.fourcaraudio.co.uk/brands/audison/audison-prima/audison-prima-ap-f89-bit
Toslink is an optical interface. It uses a pulsing LED to send digital audio. Also, the AP-F8.9-bit is multiple things in one box. Its a DSP, a DAC, and a Power AMP. In addition its an ADC. If you go into it with an analog signal then that signal will have to go through an ADC to digitize it so that the DSP can work. After the DSP processing, then the digital audio has to be turned back into analog audio to power the speakers. All that stuff is inside the box.
Now what will probably sound best would be go into with SPDIF or USB since those things would digital inputs. Problem with the analog input is that the ADC is probably not that great. Better to avoid it if possible.
Regarding going from a phone to TOSLINK, its best if the phone has a digital output so that the audio can avoid going through an ADC to get digitized so it can be sent over TOSLINK. If the phone only has an analog output, then TOSLINK may not be the best way to go. You could probably take the analog output of the phone and run into one of the analog inputs on amp/dsp box.
Now what will probably sound best would be go into with SPDIF or USB since those things would digital inputs. Problem with the analog input is that the ADC is probably not that great. Better to avoid it if possible.
Regarding going from a phone to TOSLINK, its best if the phone has a digital output so that the audio can avoid going through an ADC to get digitized so it can be sent over TOSLINK. If the phone only has an analog output, then TOSLINK may not be the best way to go. You could probably take the analog output of the phone and run into one of the analog inputs on amp/dsp box.
Many Thanks. Will the FiiO Q11 be any good? It mentions that the 3.5mm jack doubles as a Coaxial output?
Or are their better alternatives?
I see some items described as DAC Headphone Amps? Will these blow my DSP/Amp if I connect an optical between the two? Or mess up the sound quality DSP is outputting?
Or are their better alternatives?
I see some items described as DAC Headphone Amps? Will these blow my DSP/Amp if I connect an optical between the two? Or mess up the sound quality DSP is outputting?
Many Thanks Mark this is exactly what I've been trying to establish. So.....I see everywhere people mentioning that you will always get better sound from a DAP/DAC than you will a mobile phone.....is this just referring to when using headphones in the device then?
If I just want to get THE best sound quality I can with using the Audison F8.9 then I'm best just using my phone? Even though my phone hasn't got good reviews for the sound/dac? Because it's the Audison DAC that's creating the sound with its internal DAC regardless of what player I use?
I've been reading this thread of a guy with the same DSP as me and others and they went for the Fiio DAP why therefore didn't they just use any old phone if the internal DAC of the DSP is doing the work?
Really appreciate your help mate as I mentioned at the beginning I'm absolutely confused as I like you thought the DSP would he doing all the sound work......and its definitely got a DAC inside my Audison DSP?
Here's a link to one of the threads I've been reading https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/dap-for-audison-dsp.429117/
If I just want to get THE best sound quality I can with using the Audison F8.9 then I'm best just using my phone? Even though my phone hasn't got good reviews for the sound/dac? Because it's the Audison DAC that's creating the sound with its internal DAC regardless of what player I use?
I've been reading this thread of a guy with the same DSP as me and others and they went for the Fiio DAP why therefore didn't they just use any old phone if the internal DAC of the DSP is doing the work?
Really appreciate your help mate as I mentioned at the beginning I'm absolutely confused as I like you thought the DSP would he doing all the sound work......and its definitely got a DAC inside my Audison DSP?
Here's a link to one of the threads I've been reading https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/dap-for-audison-dsp.429117/
If you get better sound when using a better TOSLINK source, it could be that the TOSLINK embedded clock has lower jitter than the built-in clock inside Audison F8.9. If a SPDIF receiver chip is being used inside F8.9 to generate the master clock then maybe it could sound better. That's because TOSLINK is a type of SPDIF. It just uses a light beam instead of a wire. The light signal is converted back to an electrical signal then fed into a SPDIF receiver.
One thing is for sure, if you use the TOSLINK output from Q11 then its internal dac is out of the picture. Q11 dac is not being used for what you are hearing. If it sounds better its probably because of the embedded clock in the TOSLINK signal. If so, that's pretty bad. It means Audison F8.9 clocking isn't very good. Of course, its pretty low-cost for all the stuff it does. Means they can't spend too much money on good clocking and still sell at such a low price.
One thing is for sure, if you use the TOSLINK output from Q11 then its internal dac is out of the picture. Q11 dac is not being used for what you are hearing. If it sounds better its probably because of the embedded clock in the TOSLINK signal. If so, that's pretty bad. It means Audison F8.9 clocking isn't very good. Of course, its pretty low-cost for all the stuff it does. Means they can't spend too much money on good clocking and still sell at such a low price.
Hard to say how much jitter there will be with that. Probably have to try it and see what you think.
If one of your friends has a Q11 maybe they will let you try its digital output too. I don't think there is any way to predict by reading vague ads that don't give information about jitter performance.
If one of your friends has a Q11 maybe they will let you try its digital output too. I don't think there is any way to predict by reading vague ads that don't give information about jitter performance.
Audio quality aside, you should also consider the laws regarding the use of mobile phones while driving.
In the UK it might? be legal to adjust music if the phone is mounted, but I think it's certainly illegal if the phone is hand-held -
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-pho...illegal to hold and,videos, or browse the web.
Here in Australia the only legal use of a mobile phone in a car is for navigation, and only while the body of the phone is mounted.
In the UK it might? be legal to adjust music if the phone is mounted, but I think it's certainly illegal if the phone is hand-held -
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-pho...illegal to hold and,videos, or browse the web.
Here in Australia the only legal use of a mobile phone in a car is for navigation, and only while the body of the phone is mounted.
Hi Mark, sorry I'm back again! I tried that lead I posted above from Amazon but it cuts out intermittently. I'm therefore still thinking of getting the Q11 (even though I won't be using its DAC) but how would I connect between Toslink on the DSP to the Digital Out on that Q11? Everything I'm looking at online seems to refer to optical out on the 3.5mm jack but even with a Mini Toslink connector that won't work/fit into a 3.5mm jack will it?
There are optical adapters that plug into the 3.5mm phone jack. The end of the adapter that sticks out has a TOSLINK connector. If you need SPDIF then there are little wall wart powered TOSLINK to SPDIF boxes that accept TOSLINK input and output coaxial SPDIF.
https://www.google.com/search?q=3.5...2j0i22i30l8.6426j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=tos...AAGBYYHhgP4gMEGAAgQYgGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
https://www.google.com/search?q=3.5...2j0i22i30l8.6426j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=tos...AAGBYYHhgP4gMEGAAgQYgGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
Many Thanks Mark really appreciate it.
Problem I have is a lot of the ones I'm looking at appear to be for home use and not car use, as this one for example comes with a Multi Country Plug.......
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video...55-QlywT-_23VwbVt_Sj8bMaUnDUZoDhoCfjIQAvD_BwE
I've purchased that other one further above that I posted off of Amazon and returning it as it's cutting out and crackling, and therefore would rather get a branded one from a good company from the likes of FIIO etc in the form of a DAC Dongle if there is anything like that available?
At the moment the only option I can see would be to spend out £130.00 on the Audison C20........?
https://www.cen.uk/audison-bit-c20-...D8bJ_4fGHaQsnCTioQ3BmI-ePHy2mZoxoCEfYQAvD_BwE
Once I find one mate I will forward your details over to the company and make sure you earn some commission on this! 🤣
Problem I have is a lot of the ones I'm looking at appear to be for home use and not car use, as this one for example comes with a Multi Country Plug.......
https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video...55-QlywT-_23VwbVt_Sj8bMaUnDUZoDhoCfjIQAvD_BwE
I've purchased that other one further above that I posted off of Amazon and returning it as it's cutting out and crackling, and therefore would rather get a branded one from a good company from the likes of FIIO etc in the form of a DAC Dongle if there is anything like that available?
At the moment the only option I can see would be to spend out £130.00 on the Audison C20........?
https://www.cen.uk/audison-bit-c20-...D8bJ_4fGHaQsnCTioQ3BmI-ePHy2mZoxoCEfYQAvD_BwE
Once I find one mate I will forward your details over to the company and make sure you earn some commission on this! 🤣
That was kind of a veiled warning. If needed, someone may have to figure out how to power it. Then again, some people already have inverters.
Car battery voltage can vary some, maybe a low of around 11v up to maybe a max of 17v, negative ground. Most of the time around 12 to 14v. Something like that. If a TOSLINK to SPIDIF box comes with a wall wart, the question might then be what voltage and polarity does the wall wart provide to the converter box? If we know that it may be fairly trivial to power it from the car battery.
I would not assume that adding more or applying different steps will automatically better the LDAC connection between the phone and the BCON.
Perhaps an optical link between a DAP and the AP F8.9 will be more likely bring some improvement .
Perhaps an optical link between a DAP and the AP F8.9 will be more likely bring some improvement .
Hi mate the DSP and the 8.9 are integrated, they are both in the same box of tricks.
I just want a good quality item that can provide me with the ability to get digital out from either my phone, a dac, or a dap, into Toslink so that I can plug that straight into my 8.9 DSP/Amp.
I currently use a BCON and stream LDAC and it really does sound great, but I would like to see how much better a direct digital connection would sound.
I never mentioned the DSP only the BCON and the possibility of bypassing the BCON by going from DAP to AP F8.9
Hi yes this is what I mean, I don't need to go from the DAP to AP F8.9 as they are the same unit. The Bcon has passthrough Toslink therefore I can go either to the BCON or directly to the AP F8.9 but I'm struggling to find a way of getting digital out of a quality product be that a phone, DAC, or a DAP....