Cheap 3 way studio monitors challenge

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theneo

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Joined 2024
#1
I have gone through the threads here and read open source monkey box build and also the LCCAM 10.3 build. From what I read, this combination seems to be the best:

  • Bliesma T25B-6 tweeter
  • Bliesma M74B-6 midrange / VOLT VM 753
  • Purifi PTT8.0X04-NAB-02 8" woofer
  • Hypex FA503 amp

But I'm at my parent's place now and need a much cheaper 3 way studio monitor as a second pair so that I can use them here. What combination would you suggest?

Also open to passive builds or hybrid amp / dsp builds like LCCAM. My aim is to go cheaper even than LCCAM. Don't want to buy Adam a7x, Neumann Kh 120 etc. Neumann have too much midrange and I always end up under-compensating for mids in the mixes.

I'm also open to coaxial designs. (Use equator D5, Presonus Sceptre S8 and Genelec 8361 in my main studio - so my ears find it easy to mix in coaxials). I'd also be happy to buy some of these drivers off you guys if they are available.
 
#2
 
#3
Thank you, appreciate it. No scanspeak tweeters? probably they are expensive. Was also thinking of using a dome midrange if I can get them for cheap. Or Dayton for low end. Wondering if these can be used w/ 2 aiyima amps as biamped.
 
#4
My big 3 ways using budget drivers really tells me integration is more important than getting expensive or fancy drivers. Mine have sd315, dc130, and nd25fw. I'm using linear phase filtering done in my computer. I mix on them all the time with great results.

If i had do it again (I do plan on it) I would put the 12 in a different box that is shorter, and put the tweeter and mid in their own bookshelf with baffle geometry better optimized for the drivers. Granted this an assumption based on the fact that all my thinner speakers image better. I'd also have preferred to use one of the augerpro guides and sb tweeter. Maybe use a different mid with smoother breakup, but I didn't find it to be a problem with the dc130.

I powered the mid and tweeter with a07 and sd315 with crown xli.

I've also considered a dome mid but not any I can afford will meet the 12, and I can go back from this 12 because anything smaller doesn't satisfy the ears.

Eagee to see where this thread goes.
 
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#5
I'd do this combo -

2x SIlver Flute W20RC38-08 8" woofers
1x Hivi DMB-A 2" silk dome mid
1x SB Acoustics SB26STCN 1" silk dome tweeter

Enclosure is 50 ltrs ported.

This all costs $155 for the drivers to make one monitor. These drivers sound better than some higher end Seas or ScanSpeak stuff.

Woofers connected in parallel, crossed at 900hz and 3.5khz LR2. Use only air core inductors (in series with woofer) and decent PP caps (in series with mid and tweeter).
 
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#7
wafflesomd said:
My big 3 ways using budget drivers really tells me integration is more important than getting expensive or fancy drivers.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

TNT said:
What is a "studio monitor" for you?
Click to expand...
Yes, what size do you want, how deep must the bass response be? Active or passive? It sounds like you want a direct radiator tweeter with no waveguide, but are you open to a waveguide?

j.
 
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#8
I think you should phrase your requirements in the external interface - i.e. the "air" and not in terms of implementation units. many things can become a "monitor" - whatever that now is...

//
 
#9
More thoughts:

A 3-way speaker is challenging to design. If this is your first speaker design project, you need to be aware of how difficult it will be to design and build something which will be equal to a commercially available speaker. It is not an impossible task, but it will be a challenge.

With direct radiating drivers, the layout of the baffle is critically important. Baffle layout means the size of the baffle, the shape of the edges, the location and spacing of the drivers. The baffle layout will mostly determine the directivity performance of the speaker. The crossover is part of it too, but baffle layout is probably a bigger impact. Designing the baffle layout involves simulation.

If someone was contemplating a speaker like the LCAAM 10.3 but was willing to spend more money, I would recommend the following changes.

Woofer: Scanspeak discovery 10" woofer
Mid: Satori MW13TX
Tweeter: A lot of options here. I like the Satori TW29TX, and Scanspeak has several very nice textile domes.

j.
 
#11
theneo said:
Thank you, appreciate it. No scanspeak tweeters? probably they are expensive. Was also thinking of using a dome midrange if I can get them for cheap. Or Dayton for low end. Wondering if these can be used w/ 2 aiyima amps as biamped.
Click to expand...
I have never been fond of the SS tweeter because I find them too much brilliant/harsch.
For the dome mid you can find a lot of info in "the dome midrange thread" by profiguy.
 
#12
@theneo - A dome midrange has advantages in a high efficiency high SPL application. There are some cheap ones out there, but none of them are very good. A good dome mid is rather expensive compared to a cone mid. If your midrange driver budget is $400, then yes look seriously at dome mids. If your midrange driver budget is $90, you may be better off (much better off) with a cone mid driver. If you do not need high SPL and high sensitivity, I don't see much advantage in using a dome mid.

A high quality (expensive) dome mid may have some unique subjective qualities that no cone driver can offer. Maybe. But this kind of subtle difference is only meaningful in a high quality system where every aspect has been designed and tuned just right. If you are on a budget and are putting together a "cheap 3-way monitor", I think you would be better off with a good cone mid driver rather than a low-end bargain dome mid driver.
 
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#14
theneo said:
  • Bliesma T25B-6 tweeter
  • Bliesma M74B-6 midrange / VOLT VM 753
Click to expand...

Beryllium is out now for a year or so. 🙁 But just take T25A and M74A, give both a passive series notch for the breakup resonance and save some money...

theneo said:
  • Purifi PTT8.0X04-NAB-02 8" woofer
Click to expand...

Purifi is great when you need wide bandwidth linear displacement capability from small box volume. If you can give some volume/width to the speaker take lager/more woofers. Two good 10-12" per speaker in compact ~50-80l CB for in sum even lower price will give you more headroom and sound sovereignty than that lonely pumping purify.

theneo said:
My aim is to go cheaper even than LCCAM.
Click to expand...

So also you compromise less regarding headroom in comparison to the "reference speaker configuration" you mentioned, when you take a larger woofer. But perhaps you want to keep it compact, so 8" is fine also?

Usual recommendation for best value drivers that do a lot of things right are all in the same price class than the LCCAM Woofer. Typical examples are Dayton RS225, Scan Speak Discovery 22W, SB Acoustics SB23xxxS45, Scan Speak Discovery 26W, ...

A bit cheaper is maybe Peerless/Tymphany SLS8 and SLS10 woofers, when you can get some as Tymphany is closing DIY buisness.
SB26SFCL38 looks good from data.
Faital Pro 10FE330 and 12FE330 also look nice for HiFi use, here in europe they are pretty cheap to get.

The LCCAM midrange is hard to beat overall when you like a clear sound (I use the SB15NBAC also and like it very much), but here again it is in the usual value price class so hard to get cheaper and not take too limited components. For use with 8" I would go smaller with the mid to 4" size. SB12MNRX2-25-4 has good data and simulation results, Faital 4FE42 is a ugly beast but cheap (have the 4FE32 here in a boombox that plays mid-highs surprisingly well and loud).
 
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#16
theneo said:
My aim is to go cheaper even than LCCAM.
Click to expand...
I missed that when I first read the opening post... In fact I somehow read the opposite, that @theneo was looking to spend more.

Moving to the smaller Dayton RS225 is a good way to save money on both the woofer and the cabinet (smaller box), as @A4eaudio mentioned.

The SB acoustics SB12PAC25 ($37) would make a nice midrange driver.

I would seriously consider the Dayton ND25FW-4 waveguide tweeter ($22). With a waveguide tweeter, it may not be necessary to use tapered bevels to control directivity through the crossover... We would have to simulate it or measure it to be sure, but sometimes a simple bevel or round-over is enough when using a waveguide.
 
#17
The main difference between a HiFi speaker and a studio monitor would be dynamic range and absolute SPL levels. A studio monitor - besides having good (flat) frequency response - must have the ability to reproduce uncompressed instrument sounds cleanly. Based on the drivers that I have in my stash, I have come up with the following combinations that I believe would achieve the stated exceptional levels of performance:

System 1:
Tweeter: SEAS Prestige 27TBCD/GB-DXT
Midrange: Zaph Audio ZA14W08
Woofer: Dayton RS225S

System 2:
Tweeter: Peerless DA25TX00-08
Midrange: Dayton RS52AN-8
Woofer: SEAS W18E001

But the drivers are only part of the solution. Choose crossover points and slopes based on the respective drivers' distortion profiles and radiation patterns. I favour 4th order LR (acoustic). You want to make sure that distortion is low and that headroom is maximised. Pro drivers seem to get you into the ballpark almost by default, but I don't have a lot of experience with them; only with hifi drivers. Adding a waveguide to a tweeter does a lot for lowering distortion and increasing its dynamic range.
 
#18
Let's stay real here. A cheap self build is a great way to learn stuff - but doesn't make a lot of sense for (semi)professional use.

Financially - you can buy a used monitor speaker and sell in a few years with very little loss. And invest in something bigger/better. You will get very litle money back from your DIY. Take the time you work on the cabinets and crossover and work for money ... you can easily buy a nice monitor speaker.

Quality - these speakers nowadays are pretty good. The 2 with the best price/performance ratio are probably
*) Kali IN-8 2nd Wave. Everybody seem to be impressed with that speaker and it's coax as you like it. Just don't use it very neafield directly on axis, you probably can hear the chancellations at 10kHz. Turn them 10-15° schould do the trick.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...econd-wave-3-way-studio-monitor-review.24586/
*) If you need a professional studio monitor you should try the new KH120ii. They improved in the midrange quality (and a few other things) and there is for SURE not to much of it. It goes really low and loud for it's size and MA-1 is one of the best linearisation systems out there. It fits in a bigger system, you can expand with subwoofers for bigger rooms and work the next 20 years with it. Sound stage is amazing with these, they have very low tolerance.
If you PREFER less mids you can set a house curve in the MA-1 measuring system. Digital input, so you can use a cheap interface to drive them perfectly (that alone can save A LOT!)
But it will be hard to find them used ... 😏


When you WANT to build a speaker - continue! But when you need a speaker for working, continue working, get a used Kali and improve on mixing instead of improve in wood gluing and sanding and painting ..


p.s.: I would build the speaker anyways ... but that's the reason why I know it's bad advice to do so 😎
 
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#20
IamJF said:
Let's stay real here. A cheap self build is a great way to learn stuff - but doesn't make a lot of sense for (semi)professional use.

Financially - you can buy a used monitor speaker and sell in a few years with very little loss. And invest in something bigger/better. You will get very litle money back from your DIY. Take the time you work on the cabinets and crossover and work for money ... you can easily buy a nice monitor speaker.

Quality - these speakers nowadays are pretty good. The 2 with the best price/performance ratio are probably
*) Kali IN-8 2nd Wave. Everybody seem to be impressed with that speaker and it's coax as you like it. Just don't use it very neafield directly on axis, you probably can hear the chancellations at 10kHz. Turn them 10-15° schould do the trick.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...econd-wave-3-way-studio-monitor-review.24586/
*) If you need a professional studio monitor you should try the new KH120ii. They improved in the midrange quality (and a few other things) and there is for SURE not to much of it. It goes really low and loud for it's size and MA-1 is one of the best linearisation systems out there. It fits in a bigger system, you can expand with subwoofers for bigger rooms and work the next 20 years with it. Sound stage is amazing with these, they have very low tolerance.
If you PREFER less mids you can set a house curve in the MA-1 measuring system. Digital input, so you can use a cheap interface to drive them perfectly (that alone can save A LOT!)
But it will be hard to find them used ... 😏


When you WANT to build a speaker - continue! But when you need a speaker for working, continue working, get a used Kali and improve on mixing instead of improve in wood gluing and sanding and painting ..


p.s.: I would build the speaker anyways ... but that's the reason why I know it's bad advice to do so 😎
Click to expand...

Very much agree. As fun as building speakers is, you're very much likely to put a lot of effort and time into something and barely match something from Kali. My LP6v2 are still probably the most tonally accurate speakers I have, really just zero complaints about them. If the intention is to mix music one absolutely needs to have a good reference around it's easier to just buy that reference.

This is why for my DIY stuff, I stick to stuff that you either can't afford premade or just doesn't exist. The IN-8 are excellent, but they're not gonna keep up with a big *** 12" 3 way, which you can do for about the same price or less.
 
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