Sorry for my question, but I'm new in electronics.
I read much about pcb vs point to point wiring.
But what is about my idea as an beginner to use pcb's and adding as much as possible point to point wires in the signal path? Connecting the tube sockets to the next parts additional by wire, and so on.
Would the signal chose the "best" way or both?
I read much about pcb vs point to point wiring.
But what is about my idea as an beginner to use pcb's and adding as much as possible point to point wires in the signal path? Connecting the tube sockets to the next parts additional by wire, and so on.
Would the signal chose the "best" way or both?
Neither. Signals don't know about "best".
Use PCB or point-to-point, whichever you find easiest to construct. With both of them doing it well is the solution; neither is intrinsically superior for audio.
Use PCB or point-to-point, whichever you find easiest to construct. With both of them doing it well is the solution; neither is intrinsically superior for audio.
Agree, you choose one or the other based on convenience or practical reasons.
A Boutique builder will often choose PTP based on very low scale of production, PCBs are killer but take some time to design, and an even longer one to debug, but for mid or large production they are indispensable.
A midway point is to use eyeletted boards like old Fender did, you design them fast since you only need to worry about parts placement but not wiring, which is added later, and can be easily moved "a little bit over *here* or *there*" which on a PCB means redrawing/printing/etching/drilling/populating a full new PCB.
All 3 techniques can sound exactly the same.
A Boutique builder will often choose PTP based on very low scale of production, PCBs are killer but take some time to design, and an even longer one to debug, but for mid or large production they are indispensable.
A midway point is to use eyeletted boards like old Fender did, you design them fast since you only need to worry about parts placement but not wiring, which is added later, and can be easily moved "a little bit over *here* or *there*" which on a PCB means redrawing/printing/etching/drilling/populating a full new PCB.
All 3 techniques can sound exactly the same.
thanks, understand so far. At the moment I have some Chinese pcb's here.
I thought about soldering some parts as resistors, directly on its place, but mount the tube sockets to the case, using MKP's instead of electrolytic caps and because mkp are bigger not to mount them directly but using wires to connect them to the pcb.
If I solder some parts to the pcb but add wires to the next part too, would the signal use the shortest way or both the pcb and the wire to the next part? Could this "doubling" of the circuit affect the SQ in an negative way?
This mix pcb and ptb would allow to use bigger part or remove some parts easier for mods than all parts directly soldered to the pcb, I think.
I thought about soldering some parts as resistors, directly on its place, but mount the tube sockets to the case, using MKP's instead of electrolytic caps and because mkp are bigger not to mount them directly but using wires to connect them to the pcb.
If I solder some parts to the pcb but add wires to the next part too, would the signal use the shortest way or both the pcb and the wire to the next part? Could this "doubling" of the circuit affect the SQ in an negative way?
This mix pcb and ptb would allow to use bigger part or remove some parts easier for mods than all parts directly soldered to the pcb, I think.
Remember that every signal circuit has a two wire connection.
It MUST have both a Flow route and a Return route. The Signal CURRENT MUST return to it's source.
If you make a single wire connection from a Source to a Receiver, then you must consider how that current gets back to it's Source.
Adding multiple FLOW routes does nothing, except to increase the loop area created with the existing RETURN route.
If you don't have an existing Return route, then the signal circuit is incomplete and won't work.
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The signal, given a choice of pathways, will divide itself between the pathways proportionally in relation to the resistance of each pathway. It will always use both pathways, just one more than the other unless their resistance is equal then the pathways will be used equally. Remember every wire and every trace has a resistance.
So I will adding resistance by connecting a wire additional to the trace.
There will be no benefit by doing this if not necessary?
There will be no benefit by doing this if not necessary?
No. If you have a wire and a trace instead of just a trace you will be lowering resistance. Check and review how parallel resistors work and you will see.
Unless you are adding the wire in series with the trace. You will be adding resistance, it will be negligible.
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No. The change in resistance (whether series or parallel) will be negligible, so it will have no discernible change in sound.
The real issue is parasitic reactance, both inductance and capacitance. This can create instability, as the valves don't know they are only supposed to amplify audio signals. To a valve a long wire looks like a UHF resonator so the valve assumes that you want it to act as a UHF oscillator.
Using MKPs instead of electrolytics is at best an exercise in running before walking. At worst it too can lead to instability or increased hum. Build the circuit as the designer intended. Debug it (if necesssary). Learn about it. Then, maybe, think about 'upgrading' it - but remember that to genuinely improve a circuit you first have to understand it better than the original designer. Making it sound different is easy, though.
The real issue is parasitic reactance, both inductance and capacitance. This can create instability, as the valves don't know they are only supposed to amplify audio signals. To a valve a long wire looks like a UHF resonator so the valve assumes that you want it to act as a UHF oscillator.
Using MKPs instead of electrolytics is at best an exercise in running before walking. At worst it too can lead to instability or increased hum. Build the circuit as the designer intended. Debug it (if necesssary). Learn about it. Then, maybe, think about 'upgrading' it - but remember that to genuinely improve a circuit you first have to understand it better than the original designer. Making it sound different is easy, though.
Every pcb that I have worked with has involved wires somewhere to connect something. A combination is nearly inevitable. I think what Andrew is saying is avoid using both a trace and a wire that results in duplicating a connection. Generally speaking, shorter is better. Loops are bad. There are many subtleties. Sorry Andrew, if I over simplified and left out stuff.
Thanks to all, I understand now.🙂
Can somebody recommend a good sounding 3-5W power amp circuit to drive my 8 ohm FE103-Sol?
Can somebody recommend a good sounding 3-5W power amp circuit to drive my 8 ohm FE103-Sol?
The "signal" does generally not care if it's a pcb or wire.
But chassie-mounted tube sockets are vastly better then pcb mounted,
they don't heat the pcb, they dont bend the connections when plugging
and unplugging tubes and it's much easier to replace a damaged socket.
These chassie-mounted sockets is connected to pcb by wires, this is the
preferred way.
When you're homebrewing your new circuit, point to point is way easier to modify, and easier and quicker to throw together, assuming you have a handful of chassis punches and drills, and lots of terminal strips.
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