I am still managing with a Behringer UB 1204 mixer - a throwback to my almost penniless days! I have now built a system which will easily reveal the difference in sound quality between a cheap class D and a good class AB amplifier. I have not tried any other mixer yet, but Allen and Heath come highly recommended to me, such as the ZED 12 or 14.
The question being is the modest investment to try to improve sound quality worth it (at the added cost of extra weight and larger footprint), the mixer being used solely for line level volume control of recorded music and overall output level, with no EQ or microphones used.
The question being is the modest investment to try to improve sound quality worth it (at the added cost of extra weight and larger footprint), the mixer being used solely for line level volume control of recorded music and overall output level, with no EQ or microphones used.
Is this a home audio "PA equipment" application? If so maybe consider going to a component preamp with balanced outputs.
If the Behringer mixer is in good condition and you use it within it's linear operating range(never pushing the levels outside green) it probably does not impart much of any character on the signal. That is good of course but you still may like the sound of an A&H better, The Behringer boards I have seen/heard seem to work well enough but there are subtle audible differences between it and a brand name board that become apparant when you have a chance to do a direct comparison.
If the Behringer mixer is in good condition and you use it within it's linear operating range(never pushing the levels outside green) it probably does not impart much of any character on the signal. That is good of course but you still may like the sound of an A&H better, The Behringer boards I have seen/heard seem to work well enough but there are subtle audible differences between it and a brand name board that become apparant when you have a chance to do a direct comparison.
No, it's grown to about 25kW now, with the emphasis on huge dynamic range and best possible quality - BMS/B&C/Beyma/4 x 21"/6 x 18"subs and 14 power amps including MC2. Maybe I'll borrow or hire a better mixer for tests if there's no general consensus; the little Behringer has served me flawlessly for years for £70 but the upgrade bug is always there...
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Some years ago I used two of these Behringers to record drums. That was a hassle! The mics had to be taped down to reduce impact or the recording would be destorted.
Bought a larger Yamaha, removed the tape from the mics and recorded drums flawlessly. Same room, kit, mics, placements etc.
See if you can borrow or test a better mixer. You might be surprised!
Bought a larger Yamaha, removed the tape from the mics and recorded drums flawlessly. Same room, kit, mics, placements etc.
See if you can borrow or test a better mixer. You might be surprised!
This is a "you won't know until you try for yourself" type of thing.. and it's not about the $$ spent in my experience there are always a few low dollar gems.
I currently own 4 analog mixers... two Mackies a Yamaha and a Tascam, and have used an A&H mixwiz and a few others. All of these sound clean and natural but believe it or not I think the Mackies have the most clean headroom.
A DJ friend of mine has a 16 or 24ch Behringer console... an older one with the silver face. Every time I have run across one of these the mixer always seem to have 1 or more dead channels and his is no exception, and I don't know what it is but it sounds a little off.. my Mackie ProFx8 sounds more natural.
I currently own 4 analog mixers... two Mackies a Yamaha and a Tascam, and have used an A&H mixwiz and a few others. All of these sound clean and natural but believe it or not I think the Mackies have the most clean headroom.
A DJ friend of mine has a 16 or 24ch Behringer console... an older one with the silver face. Every time I have run across one of these the mixer always seem to have 1 or more dead channels and his is no exception, and I don't know what it is but it sounds a little off.. my Mackie ProFx8 sounds more natural.
It's been a while, but when I measured my Behringer desk (Xenyx 2222FX, I think), I found that the "zero" point on the tone controls were typically anything but zero. The stereo channels had differences between left and right, too. A couple of channels were as far out as 9-o'-clock=0dB.
I did think about going through every channel and finding a way of marking out where the zeroes were, but then QSC released their TouchMix desks so I jumped on those. The TM16 is smaller, lighter, has more I/O, more processing, and multi-track recording.
Obviously, digital desks won't satisfy the audiophile who happens to be using an analogue mixer. The Soundcraft Notepad mixers might be worth a look: their stereo inputs don't have tone controls to be off-zero, so the chances of clean signal are much improved.
Chris
I did think about going through every channel and finding a way of marking out where the zeroes were, but then QSC released their TouchMix desks so I jumped on those. The TM16 is smaller, lighter, has more I/O, more processing, and multi-track recording.
Obviously, digital desks won't satisfy the audiophile who happens to be using an analogue mixer. The Soundcraft Notepad mixers might be worth a look: their stereo inputs don't have tone controls to be off-zero, so the chances of clean signal are much improved.
Chris
Yamaha MG06 has better sound quality if you just want level control:
very hard to compare the spec with the Behringer spec but I know in practice this mixer is much lower noise than the equivlent Behringer noise as I heard a system where a swap was made to reduce annoying background hiss to inaudible levels.
very hard to compare the spec with the Behringer spec but I know in practice this mixer is much lower noise than the equivlent Behringer noise as I heard a system where a swap was made to reduce annoying background hiss to inaudible levels.
FWIW, I recently did sound for a friend's band that had a Zed14, and it was warmed over dog poo. I was literally miserable trying to coax anything resembling a professional sound out of it. Thin & lifeless mic pres, horrible EQ, and the built-in reverb was all but useless. (I'm a lifelong pro studio engineer, so I know what good gear sounds like.)
But it was quiet, and I guess the headroom was acceptable, so there's THAT.
But it's inexpensive, and you can only ask so much out of a dollar. I can't imagine anything by Behringer being better, I'm just saying you need to be realistic as to what you get for that price range. A "reasonably professional" 8 channel mic pre is going to coast around $3K these days, and that's just for a clean, full sounding unit, not one with "personality." So do the math, and lower your expectations.
In that price range, I'd recommend trying to find an old, used Soundcraft, even if you have to re-cap it. Those were lovely, for the price.
#9, #10 thanks for the info; I have an old and as yet untested 24 channel Soundcraft which I will compare with the Behringer. I cannot justify (or even afford!) the new professional kit but am surprised at how bad you found the Allen & Heath - my friend swears by his DJ mixer...
Behringer sounds as-good-as the best, for the very good reason that they steal get-inspired-by designs all over the place so sound quality is not your problem.
The BIG difference lies in the mechanical construction: the expensive PRO stuff will survive a couple Stones Tours, bumping inside a plane cargo hold in the middle of turbulence, rolling down conveyor belts of falling into the tarmac from a 6 meters high plane door, hurried setup and disassembly, will have way stronger connectors, better pots, etc., which is fine and worth it; but soundwise? No big difference, if at all.
Of course, compare the better Behringer to the better Pro stuff, keep it apples to apples.
This is a sad (because it´s real) but humorous description of what Touring equipment must stand 🙁
and this was not a PRO Tour!!!!!!
The BIG difference lies in the mechanical construction: the expensive PRO stuff will survive a couple Stones Tours, bumping inside a plane cargo hold in the middle of turbulence, rolling down conveyor belts of falling into the tarmac from a 6 meters high plane door, hurried setup and disassembly, will have way stronger connectors, better pots, etc., which is fine and worth it; but soundwise? No big difference, if at all.
Of course, compare the better Behringer to the better Pro stuff, keep it apples to apples.
This is a sad (because it´s real) but humorous description of what Touring equipment must stand 🙁
and this was not a PRO Tour!!!!!!
I think the biggest difference you'll see in this level of desks is with reliability ... you've been lucky with your behringer. I've seen loads of them with various problems and I'm not a behringer hater ... I've been using behringer stuff here and there since the 80's when it was made in Germany. Latterly though I've had to repair or modify almost every piece of behringer gear I have.
I've worked on most brands of desk mentioned here and if I was to choose one I would say Soundcraft, not because of any great sound quality difference (these small desks have so few channels and such short audio paths that there's not going to be a huge difference in any of them when used live, other factors will have a lot more impact) but because I always found the UK Soundcraft distributer (Soundtech) fantastic to deal with ... 🙂
I've worked on most brands of desk mentioned here and if I was to choose one I would say Soundcraft, not because of any great sound quality difference (these small desks have so few channels and such short audio paths that there's not going to be a huge difference in any of them when used live, other factors will have a lot more impact) but because I always found the UK Soundcraft distributer (Soundtech) fantastic to deal with ... 🙂