Hi there, I have an age old question... should I buy passive or active pa speakers? I am a complete newbie so please be patient. 😕
First off some context, I already own an amp which I bought about 10 years ago. It's a Phonic powerpod 1060 200w and 4ohms Max (not the best I know). This was bought when I played in an accoustic duo playing to quite small audiences in small venues. I now have a 6 piece ska band (with horns, keys, vocals and guitar going through the pa) that will hopefully be playing to much larger audiences in much larger venues - weddings, clubs, outdoor events etc. I am looking to get some speakers as the ones I had previously I no longer have. I have been offered 4 x Bose 802s by a friend at £75 each. But as I have looked further into it I am starting to think that this set-up would in no way be loud enough, hence the question. Should I buy these and then get an amp to power them or should I buy a completely different set up maybe some actives and use the Phonic amp as a mixer maybe running monitors off it?
Money is definitely a factor 🙁 as well as sound quality, etc., I have around £500 to spare. Can anyone suggest what would be a good choice and what products I should be looking at? Thanks, Jungle
First off some context, I already own an amp which I bought about 10 years ago. It's a Phonic powerpod 1060 200w and 4ohms Max (not the best I know). This was bought when I played in an accoustic duo playing to quite small audiences in small venues. I now have a 6 piece ska band (with horns, keys, vocals and guitar going through the pa) that will hopefully be playing to much larger audiences in much larger venues - weddings, clubs, outdoor events etc. I am looking to get some speakers as the ones I had previously I no longer have. I have been offered 4 x Bose 802s by a friend at £75 each. But as I have looked further into it I am starting to think that this set-up would in no way be loud enough, hence the question. Should I buy these and then get an amp to power them or should I buy a completely different set up maybe some actives and use the Phonic amp as a mixer maybe running monitors off it?
Money is definitely a factor 🙁 as well as sound quality, etc., I have around £500 to spare. Can anyone suggest what would be a good choice and what products I should be looking at? Thanks, Jungle
I don't know that a few 802s is what you need, but if this is a friend, may I assume he is willing to let you set them up and try them? Your amp may be small, but would he have a larger one to loan as part of the test? And presumably he knows how to properly set them up and operate them.
Powered speakers are fine, every speaker company makes them these days, or at least the majority. It is an option to consider. They come in all sizes. You will have to send not only signal cables to each one, but also mains power to each one. A conventional setup with passives would have power amps in your equipment area, with only speaker cables going to each cabinet. Will you be mixing sound from the stage or do you have a soundman out front?
Hmmm, it looks like the Phonic has THREE 200w amps in it, so that is 600w to play with. Four cabs, two on an amp, plus a monitor channel. Worth a try.
Powered speakers are fine, every speaker company makes them these days, or at least the majority. It is an option to consider. They come in all sizes. You will have to send not only signal cables to each one, but also mains power to each one. A conventional setup with passives would have power amps in your equipment area, with only speaker cables going to each cabinet. Will you be mixing sound from the stage or do you have a soundman out front?
Hmmm, it looks like the Phonic has THREE 200w amps in it, so that is 600w to play with. Four cabs, two on an amp, plus a monitor channel. Worth a try.
Are You loking for raw speakers,or compleet Cabes,
Do you have any empy speaker?
For low Cost and hight Wattage,
Note would Help to know What your use is(How big Area/small club/30x50 feet/
if larger/200 WATTS?/
sugust 4 eight ome conected series then parral/Will give four ome inpedance to match
amp.
How long speakers from amp.
longer runs need larger Wire Line loss will acure at about 200 feet singel run/know good sorce of deceant speakers and horns/will need more information to help/
Speaker configerion can help/
In my opion control speaker leveles aftor Amp changes load on amp/better to use two amps/wihhn singel amp/any out put will be stress by resistor speaker selctor to try match anps impeance.(to answer/woulo use mixtor in front and extra amp if want to lite up larger club/smalter club configerion of speakers will help/
if you you use only 4ome speakers eatch time you add a speaker (4ome+4ome = 2ome/will your amp out put 2ome/now add two more speakers of 4ome's load on amp will be one ome if all speaker houked up in Parallel,
good 4ROB
Do you have any empy speaker?
For low Cost and hight Wattage,
Note would Help to know What your use is(How big Area/small club/30x50 feet/
if larger/200 WATTS?/
sugust 4 eight ome conected series then parral/Will give four ome inpedance to match
amp.
How long speakers from amp.
longer runs need larger Wire Line loss will acure at about 200 feet singel run/know good sorce of deceant speakers and horns/will need more information to help/
Speaker configerion can help/
In my opion control speaker leveles aftor Amp changes load on amp/better to use two amps/wihhn singel amp/any out put will be stress by resistor speaker selctor to try match anps impeance.(to answer/woulo use mixtor in front and extra amp if want to lite up larger club/smalter club configerion of speakers will help/
if you you use only 4ome speakers eatch time you add a speaker (4ome+4ome = 2ome/will your amp out put 2ome/now add two more speakers of 4ome's load on amp will be one ome if all speaker houked up in Parallel,
good 4ROB
I have a visceral dislike of Bose. I've been called in to do a couple of concerts and a festival on Bose loudspeakers and never got a decent sound on them. They're low efficiency (which means you need more amp power for the same results), they have a lot of power compression, never sound 'beefy', and spit signal all over the place (which will occasionally be what you want, but not all the time). If you want any low frequency instrument going through the PA (I'm pleased to see you're not putting the drums or bass through), even a powerful bass voice, you need a total wall of the things. Their power rating is meaningless; it takes 500 watts of Bose to match 100 watts of horn/cone set up… yes, I'm not entirely rational about the situation. Somebody, somewhere must like Bose. They do have advantages; they're very easy to transport, for one.
Two hundred watts really isn't very much for matching a ska band (I used to have twice that in the drum wedge, just so the drummer could hear himself) And you haven't even said anything about stage monitors; in reasonable size gigs you often need as much on stage power as FOH for horns, just so they can voice themselves right. Powered speakers contain all the crossover and match the amp power to the drivers; they're a bit heavier than passives (although, with class D amps, not that much), and you have to get mains to them as well as line level signal, so the wirings a bit more complex and a trifle more expensive, and if a power connector pulls out during the gig they're slower to get working again. Passives need checking out if you buy them second hand; try and do a real gig with them before signing the final contract.
The higher you can lift the FOH system, the less you're wiping out the front rows while the audience at the back get a vague rhythmic rumble. So go for speakers that can mount on stands. If baritone sax or bass trombone I would be looking at at least 12" bass drivers.
Two hundred watts really isn't very much for matching a ska band (I used to have twice that in the drum wedge, just so the drummer could hear himself) And you haven't even said anything about stage monitors; in reasonable size gigs you often need as much on stage power as FOH for horns, just so they can voice themselves right. Powered speakers contain all the crossover and match the amp power to the drivers; they're a bit heavier than passives (although, with class D amps, not that much), and you have to get mains to them as well as line level signal, so the wirings a bit more complex and a trifle more expensive, and if a power connector pulls out during the gig they're slower to get working again. Passives need checking out if you buy them second hand; try and do a real gig with them before signing the final contract.
The higher you can lift the FOH system, the less you're wiping out the front rows while the audience at the back get a vague rhythmic rumble. So go for speakers that can mount on stands. If baritone sax or bass trombone I would be looking at at least 12" bass drivers.
Now it makes sence;
Sugust you try to rent or borrow amp for gig/ask if you can test before you do Job.
Check eatch speacker to see impeance/8ome,16ome,
if speakers old will have hight impance of at lease 8ome's/
how are speakers connected,
eatch one by it self? or connected together/
then look (FOR AMP that matches Speakers)YOU will need to know if speaker's connected in parallel as this will make two 16ome speaker eight ome's at amp,
or two 8ome speaker's =four ome at Amp,
older speaker have highter impance/to conected newer Amp with 200 Watts@4 ome
or400 Watts at 2ome (Miss Match will sound BAD<
ome's LAW AMP RATED 200 WATTS @16 ome RMS=400 WATT'S @8omeRMS and amp rated 200 watt's RMS @ 8ome=400 WATT'S 2 4ome's,
From feed back from outher suguest you might reanting Speaker's with AMP<
Good luck, the gig deserves The Most you can Throw At Them,
4ROB
Sugust you try to rent or borrow amp for gig/ask if you can test before you do Job.
Check eatch speacker to see impeance/8ome,16ome,
if speakers old will have hight impance of at lease 8ome's/
how are speakers connected,
eatch one by it self? or connected together/
then look (FOR AMP that matches Speakers)YOU will need to know if speaker's connected in parallel as this will make two 16ome speaker eight ome's at amp,
or two 8ome speaker's =four ome at Amp,
older speaker have highter impance/to conected newer Amp with 200 Watts@4 ome
or400 Watts at 2ome (Miss Match will sound BAD<
ome's LAW AMP RATED 200 WATTS @16 ome RMS=400 WATT'S @8omeRMS and amp rated 200 watt's RMS @ 8ome=400 WATT'S 2 4ome's,
From feed back from outher suguest you might reanting Speaker's with AMP<
Good luck, the gig deserves The Most you can Throw At Them,
4ROB
Hi guys, many thanks for the responses, much appreciated. With regards to space, I don't know depends on the venue. I am imagining that I will need my set up for audience sizes of 300-400 people. From research this suggests I would need around 400w+ coming out front (maybe more as we are a ska band!). Any bigger and I will either have to hire a capable system or the venue would have it's own hopefully. I also hadn't considered base and drum micing.
So as per your responses it seems that if I were to get the Bose (I may still try them out with my friend and his amp) I would need a larger amp to get the sound I require (due to compression and effeciency). This does not seem very effective and due to a very tight budget I am rethinking the options.
These are my thoughts then. Buy two passives I saw these and thought they might be ok Evolution Audio EL-15 ECO this would give me 400w rms out front from the amp or these (I could run them at a lower watt and if I ever upgrade the amp they could still be used) Peavey Pro15 MK2 15" . What's your thoughts? Then to this add two actives out front or maybe one as a monitor (to add to the passive monitors that I already have) and this should easily give me enough coverage. The question is then what would your recommendation of actives be? As there seems to be such a large choice. Again I would really want a pair for around £300, 471 USDs or 353 EUR. Again thanks for your help.
So as per your responses it seems that if I were to get the Bose (I may still try them out with my friend and his amp) I would need a larger amp to get the sound I require (due to compression and effeciency). This does not seem very effective and due to a very tight budget I am rethinking the options.
These are my thoughts then. Buy two passives I saw these and thought they might be ok Evolution Audio EL-15 ECO this would give me 400w rms out front from the amp or these (I could run them at a lower watt and if I ever upgrade the amp they could still be used) Peavey Pro15 MK2 15" . What's your thoughts? Then to this add two actives out front or maybe one as a monitor (to add to the passive monitors that I already have) and this should easily give me enough coverage. The question is then what would your recommendation of actives be? As there seems to be such a large choice. Again I would really want a pair for around £300, 471 USDs or 353 EUR. Again thanks for your help.
I have found a pair of actives at £300 would you believe. They are Skytec RC12 active PA speakers. These seem to be the best of the budget range from bits of information I have gleened from the internet. There are also the QTXs at this price but from a YuoTube video I watched these don't seem to be as nearly well made. Does anybody have any experience with either of these brands?
How did Gig go expect was great.All the research You have done.
realy hope this was A good experance for You
GOOD LUCK
4ROB
realy hope this was A good experance for You
GOOD LUCK
4ROB
I'd strongly recommend that you avoid Skytec, QTX and similar. Go with Behringer at a minimum, even if that means buying 2nd hand.
I'd get a pair of active 12" two-ways, with a view to adding subwoofers when money allows.
The addition of subwoofers means your midrange cones aren't wobbling around trying to do bass. This frees up amplifier power, meaning you can make the midrange bit louder before hitting distortion.
15" two-way cabinets may be tempting, but I'd avoid them at this budget: a 15"er needs a chunky compression driver to get a low crossover frequency. A 15" might be "able" to play up to 3kHz (a trifle for most compression drivers), but it'll be well into cone break-up, and will have very narrow dispersion. In short, the midrange will be very rough.
12"ers can go higher, which means you can use a smaller (ie, cheaper) compression driver, and still get good results.
Chris
I'd get a pair of active 12" two-ways, with a view to adding subwoofers when money allows.
The addition of subwoofers means your midrange cones aren't wobbling around trying to do bass. This frees up amplifier power, meaning you can make the midrange bit louder before hitting distortion.
15" two-way cabinets may be tempting, but I'd avoid them at this budget: a 15"er needs a chunky compression driver to get a low crossover frequency. A 15" might be "able" to play up to 3kHz (a trifle for most compression drivers), but it'll be well into cone break-up, and will have very narrow dispersion. In short, the midrange will be very rough.
12"ers can go higher, which means you can use a smaller (ie, cheaper) compression driver, and still get good results.
Chris
Quite honestly, I question today's technique of using PA systems in small venues. Recently I saw a 5 piece rock band, in venue that held about 200+ folks, that had everything miked up to a PA and it was way too loud! I mean if the bass, guitar, and keys have amps anyway, then sometimes it is not necessary to hook it up to the PA. Of course the drummer and other musicians need to hear each other, but in small venues playing with a lower volume, that should not be a problem. The simpler the set up, the less that can go wrong.
Cheers,
L.
Cheers,
L.
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