As one of the last parts of my project, which are crossovers, I noticed that there are several types of them.
And I don't know if this is like musical instruments where their difference is so tiny that the best sound they make is when they hit the bottom of a trash can.
I noticed that there are several such as Metallic Film (MKS/MKP), Polyester (PET/MKT), Electrolytics (Aluminum and Tantalum), Ceramics and the most famous in the field, Polypropylene (PP) / Metalized Polypropylene (MKT) Capacitors.
From the various videos of amateur people (like me) that I see on YouTube who try to build a good quality hifi system, they use electrolytic capacitors, but when I was researching I saw that some people say that they are not that good.
And when I try to find the same value of 100uf, 56uf, 10 or even 12uf they are infinitely more difficult to find than electrolytics.
So what's the verdict? Which one should I use in my first hifi project?
What is your opinion about it?
And I don't know if this is like musical instruments where their difference is so tiny that the best sound they make is when they hit the bottom of a trash can.
I noticed that there are several such as Metallic Film (MKS/MKP), Polyester (PET/MKT), Electrolytics (Aluminum and Tantalum), Ceramics and the most famous in the field, Polypropylene (PP) / Metalized Polypropylene (MKT) Capacitors.
From the various videos of amateur people (like me) that I see on YouTube who try to build a good quality hifi system, they use electrolytic capacitors, but when I was researching I saw that some people say that they are not that good.
And when I try to find the same value of 100uf, 56uf, 10 or even 12uf they are infinitely more difficult to find than electrolytics.
So what's the verdict? Which one should I use in my first hifi project?
What is your opinion about it?
What would you use for your woofer, mid and tweeter? As a first project I would like to know which one I should use
PP became rare. There were excelent MKC before also. I miss them.
The advantage of film film is there value precision, lythic have not. Also the value may move with lythic after 15/20 years and before that they keep more leakage.
Tip : power MKP from Panasonic are cheaper than many and relativly neutral enough (on the clear side though). Some have leads, some have not but are better like their automotive MKP caps line.
Resistor makes difference too in serie mostly : MOX are a good compromise and as cheap as the cement wirewound that are a little less informative.
With some harsh tweeter and low mids (ringings in the spl curve), MKT can give often better results subjectivly (it greatly also about how your source and amps are tonned).
Anyway passive tweeters are a slow itterative process and caps material is the final icing on the cake after you have found the rigth capacitance setup for your hifi and room and loudspeaker design. So beginn cheaps or do save monney on parts by setuping with active dsd à la MINIDSP or else, then only translate as you can the power response with the rigths values with passive. Big coil values are not cheap when you are going towards mid and bass !
The advantage of film film is there value precision, lythic have not. Also the value may move with lythic after 15/20 years and before that they keep more leakage.
Tip : power MKP from Panasonic are cheaper than many and relativly neutral enough (on the clear side though). Some have leads, some have not but are better like their automotive MKP caps line.
Resistor makes difference too in serie mostly : MOX are a good compromise and as cheap as the cement wirewound that are a little less informative.
With some harsh tweeter and low mids (ringings in the spl curve), MKT can give often better results subjectivly (it greatly also about how your source and amps are tonned).
Anyway passive tweeters are a slow itterative process and caps material is the final icing on the cake after you have found the rigth capacitance setup for your hifi and room and loudspeaker design. So beginn cheaps or do save monney on parts by setuping with active dsd à la MINIDSP or else, then only translate as you can the power response with the rigths values with passive. Big coil values are not cheap when you are going towards mid and bass !
For big cap values, i use bipolar (non-polar) electrolytic caps specifically for crossovers. They are cheap and work just fine. Just an example.
https://www.parts-express.com/100uF-100V-Non-Polarized-Capacitor-027-360
For smaller values i use cheap dayton crossover capacitors. These pp work great for me. Plenty to choose from. Just an example.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DMPC-5.1-5.1uF-250V-Polypropylene-Capacitor-027-423
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DMPC-5.1-5.1uF-250V-Polypropylene-Capacitor-027-423
Don't stress too much, most rework their projects several times before going on to something else.
For folks that have room for relatively large caps, cheap paper in oil (PIO) caps with its better damping like the pioneers used have least distortion.
The Sound of Capacitors - Capacitor Linearity
The Sound of Capacitors - Capacitor Linearity
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Hence it should be seen as a TCO point of view if monney is involved (and it is as an expensive hobby). If you see the turn over number of project indeed, better to invest in tools that make you spend less at the end:
Calibrated mic
USB two channel usb external soundcard
DSP crossover :MiniDSP, Camillla DSP etc (can be embeded with plate amps too).
Or... purchase a ready made second hand and work around the value of the passive filter often made cheap for better parts and small changes in the values to cope with your room/hifi tonal behavior (I learned that way).... but often less margin than rulling all the parameters (box, drivers, filters...) which cost at a price (much more) !
That second (hand) choice costs less. Up to each one to know what is the priority : learning pleasure or only llistening music as a unique goal. (then reiventing the wheel may cost more...often)
Caps do have a signature sound due to their lelectrical characteristics but it is in a margin importance VS all the rest (good slope and cut off choices)
Calibrated mic
USB two channel usb external soundcard
DSP crossover :MiniDSP, Camillla DSP etc (can be embeded with plate amps too).
Or... purchase a ready made second hand and work around the value of the passive filter often made cheap for better parts and small changes in the values to cope with your room/hifi tonal behavior (I learned that way).... but often less margin than rulling all the parameters (box, drivers, filters...) which cost at a price (much more) !
That second (hand) choice costs less. Up to each one to know what is the priority : learning pleasure or only llistening music as a unique goal. (then reiventing the wheel may cost more...often)
Caps do have a signature sound due to their lelectrical characteristics but it is in a margin importance VS all the rest (good slope and cut off choices)
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Capacitors are an important part of the crossover, of course, but you need to turn on your BS detector as well as keeping an eye on your budget.
Capacitor prices range in Oz from cheap, to reasonable to WTF? For example, a 6.8 microfarad film cap can range from A$4.00 to $935 (yes).
I've always used good quality Jantzen NPEs for values over 18 microfarads and film for values under that; I've used Dayton or Cross Cap film, both modestly priced and I'm happy.
The only exception was when the speaker designer suggested a use a higher quality cap for the first series cap in the tweeter circuit, but even then it was only $10 more than the Dayton I was going to use.
If you post a circuit diagram, people will be able to advise you further.
Geoff
Capacitor prices range in Oz from cheap, to reasonable to WTF? For example, a 6.8 microfarad film cap can range from A$4.00 to $935 (yes).
I've always used good quality Jantzen NPEs for values over 18 microfarads and film for values under that; I've used Dayton or Cross Cap film, both modestly priced and I'm happy.
The only exception was when the speaker designer suggested a use a higher quality cap for the first series cap in the tweeter circuit, but even then it was only $10 more than the Dayton I was going to use.
If you post a circuit diagram, people will be able to advise you further.
Geoff
Yes. If you ask the question you will receive many questions in return, and they may not have answers.
There is much good advice on this thread. I would advise you first work on your circuit and component values.. the kind of work that could be done on your simulator, this work brings valuable results.
I'm using simulators and I know the value of the capacitor I need lol, the problem is finding the ideal capacitor, today I went to several stores in my city asking about it and they only told me about the PP capacitor. And in one of these stores they showed me a capacitor saying it was PP but for audio I think it would be unfeasible.
For their price, I'd rather get a trustworthy one right away.
The first one would be hopeless for audio, but it's 120 microfarads: where would you use that anyway? I think it's for a flourescent tube fitting.
Please post the component values and schematic, then we can try to help you.
The Dayton would be fine for most purposes; note that Dayton has two types "DMPC" (basic) and "PMPC" (a bit better, for about 20% more money)
Geoff
Please post the component values and schematic, then we can try to help you.
The Dayton would be fine for most purposes; note that Dayton has two types "DMPC" (basic) and "PMPC" (a bit better, for about 20% more money)
Geoff