I notice there is a price difference between car and home subwoofers. Normally the car subwwofer are generally cheaper(there are expensive ones as well). They can be purchased from Ebay at relatively cheaper price, eg less AUD $100 for 12" driver. Also there are more varieties to choose from.
My question is that for a similar priced home and car subwoofer, can we generalise that both types would be of similar quality.To generalise further for comparable subwoofers, the car subwoofer would have higher distortion compared with similar home subwoofer.
This issue comes to my mind as I am thinking of using car (in a home speaker cabinet) which are generally cheaper and more varieties to choose from.
Any inputs, eg avoid car subwoofer in home speaker cabinet and the reasons for saying so.
Thks
My question is that for a similar priced home and car subwoofer, can we generalise that both types would be of similar quality.To generalise further for comparable subwoofers, the car subwoofer would have higher distortion compared with similar home subwoofer.
This issue comes to my mind as I am thinking of using car (in a home speaker cabinet) which are generally cheaper and more varieties to choose from.
Any inputs, eg avoid car subwoofer in home speaker cabinet and the reasons for saying so.
Thks
Car speakers are generally not as efficient or loud as speakers for home. They don't have to be.
In my opinion, The laymans difference between sound in a car and in a living room is as follows.
In a living room the speakers are in boxes/walls whatever and they project OUT to fill a fairly large living space.
In a car, the speakers project INTO the box where you sit.
That's why there is always more bass outside most cars than inside. You are inside the speaker box versus outside in a room.
Car speakers are designed for small spaces, traditional home woofers are designed for large spaces. Slamming 140db in a car is EASY compared to trying to do that in a living room.
Cheers
In my opinion, The laymans difference between sound in a car and in a living room is as follows.
In a living room the speakers are in boxes/walls whatever and they project OUT to fill a fairly large living space.
In a car, the speakers project INTO the box where you sit.
That's why there is always more bass outside most cars than inside. You are inside the speaker box versus outside in a room.
Car speakers are designed for small spaces, traditional home woofers are designed for large spaces. Slamming 140db in a car is EASY compared to trying to do that in a living room.
Cheers
I would've said quite the opposite in regards to cost actually, there are LOTS of very good Subwoofer drive units available for Home Audio for under $300 per unit. In car ones (specific car audio marketed drivers) are generally rubbish under about $200-$300 per driver unit.
Sure there are $100 car subs but for the most part if your after any kind of musicality their shithouse, their designed to go doof doof and thats about it, most have terrible low end response rediculous distortion, terrible transient response etc...
Luckily though there some nice Home Audio designed units that can operate perfectly in car and in most cases for about 1/2 the price of a Car Audio marketed driver for similar performance.
For example if I wanted to get a nice Car Audio driver I'd be looking to spend $600-$800 Alpine Type X and IDMAX are two examples, but I can get a driver frm a Home Audio driver manufacturer with similar performance (if not better) for around $300, Peerles XXLS and the Dayton RS HO are two great examples, though to be honest they are partially designed for in car use as well.
Although I use a Car Audio Sub myself a JBL W15Gti it is actually based off some of JBL's Pro Audio drivers in particular there split coil DDD ones.
In short Car Audio is overpriced for what you get.
Sure there are $100 car subs but for the most part if your after any kind of musicality their shithouse, their designed to go doof doof and thats about it, most have terrible low end response rediculous distortion, terrible transient response etc...
Luckily though there some nice Home Audio designed units that can operate perfectly in car and in most cases for about 1/2 the price of a Car Audio marketed driver for similar performance.
For example if I wanted to get a nice Car Audio driver I'd be looking to spend $600-$800 Alpine Type X and IDMAX are two examples, but I can get a driver frm a Home Audio driver manufacturer with similar performance (if not better) for around $300, Peerles XXLS and the Dayton RS HO are two great examples, though to be honest they are partially designed for in car use as well.
Although I use a Car Audio Sub myself a JBL W15Gti it is actually based off some of JBL's Pro Audio drivers in particular there split coil DDD ones.
In short Car Audio is overpriced for what you get.
What do you think of a driver such as this:
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/pro...e=ENG&Country=GB&Region=EUROPE&cat=SUB&ser=GT
primarily to be used in a W-profile Ripole?
Specs suggest it'd be decent and it is cheap for a driver with specs like it has. BL and MMS are similar to the original Ripole driver so transient response should be similar? Would you expect high distortion; theres no shorting rings or other special technology featured?
What could you get for similar price (about £50 each) that might perform better in this application? Something like the Dayton RSS315HF-4 would be nicer but is far more expensive! Would the Dayton SD315-88 be better than the JBL despite having lower Xmax and no mention of distortion reducing motor systems?
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/pro...e=ENG&Country=GB&Region=EUROPE&cat=SUB&ser=GT
primarily to be used in a W-profile Ripole?
Specs suggest it'd be decent and it is cheap for a driver with specs like it has. BL and MMS are similar to the original Ripole driver so transient response should be similar? Would you expect high distortion; theres no shorting rings or other special technology featured?
What could you get for similar price (about £50 each) that might perform better in this application? Something like the Dayton RSS315HF-4 would be nicer but is far more expensive! Would the Dayton SD315-88 be better than the JBL despite having lower Xmax and no mention of distortion reducing motor systems?
Luke352 said:
seems like you don't really keep up with the car audio subwoofer market...there are plenty of sound quality oriented subwoofers made by car audio companies.
Re: the "difference between car and home subwoofers" - car subs never come with complete t/s parameters...
aznboi3644 said:
Quite the opposite actually! But the OP is from Australia like myself, and the pricing of Equipment is very different. What you pay $100 USD for in Australia and with the current Aussie dollar value car audio prices are expected to rise in Australia.
Here is some example's
Alpine Type R
199 USD
399 aussie
JBL W15Gti
$1500 aussie RRP
anywhere from $300-$500 USD
The US market is flooded with some nice drivers in the sub $300 USD range the Aussie market though is very small in comparison of drivers under $300 aussie since it's the equivelant of sub $100 (maybe up to $150) US on the US market.
PeteMcK said:
Thats untrue!
Although the cheap and nasties generally don't, most reputable brands supply full T/S specs.
Luke352 said:
The JBL unit I linked to being a good example and the main reason I'd go with thier units:
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Boxes and Parameters/GT512Tech_050108.pdf
Thier very cheap models don't have such complete specs and many other manufacturers also only give basic specs; often just a made up power handling figure 😀
EM this JBL driver . i will use for the last project. but my friend didn't want because f3@about 50 hz then he change the mtx. but ok the jbl is cheap and a little okay use in a little room. em now i find the sub amp to drive. it's very cheap(53 dollars) but no transformer with this kit. if we are finished sometime i will post on here.🙂
http://www.megatech-audio.com/product/detail.php?pid=52&PHPSESSID=5555f6a486368c23025d1c21322eca8c
http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/TechData_T4512-44.pdf
http://www.megatech-audio.com/product/detail.php?pid=52&PHPSESSID=5555f6a486368c23025d1c21322eca8c
http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/TechData_T4512-44.pdf
In...general..
Car subwoofers are designed to:
1. Make use of the automotive "cabin gain", where low frequencies are "boosted" because of the small size. T/S parameters typically shoot for an F3 in the 60Hz range for a smallish sealed enclosure.
2. Survive the abuse thrown at them by a typical user.
3. Survive the harsh automotive environment...temperature swings etc.
4. Appeal to the consumer with fancy surround shapes, dust cap logos, frames, magnet covers...etc...
Home subwoofers are designed to:
1. Make use of the living room "room gain", where low frequencies are boosted much less than a car. Typical T/S paramters shoot for an F3 of 30ish Hz. in a 60 to 90L sealed cabinet...or lower in a vented cabinet.
2. Low distortion-long excursion without the flashy graphics and plastic.
The Parts Express Dayton brand home subs are quite a buy...or at least they were when I last shopped them. You'll have a tough time beating that performance with a $100 Ebay car sub....
Scott
Car subwoofers are designed to:
1. Make use of the automotive "cabin gain", where low frequencies are "boosted" because of the small size. T/S parameters typically shoot for an F3 in the 60Hz range for a smallish sealed enclosure.
2. Survive the abuse thrown at them by a typical user.
3. Survive the harsh automotive environment...temperature swings etc.
4. Appeal to the consumer with fancy surround shapes, dust cap logos, frames, magnet covers...etc...
Home subwoofers are designed to:
1. Make use of the living room "room gain", where low frequencies are boosted much less than a car. Typical T/S paramters shoot for an F3 of 30ish Hz. in a 60 to 90L sealed cabinet...or lower in a vented cabinet.
2. Low distortion-long excursion without the flashy graphics and plastic.
The Parts Express Dayton brand home subs are quite a buy...or at least they were when I last shopped them. You'll have a tough time beating that performance with a $100 Ebay car sub....
Scott
SpeakerScott i knew, it was difference parameter from home sub. but my city is difficult to find a good driver home sub. i must try the car driver. but thanks a lot for your reply.😀
regards
TW
regards
TW
Thawatch, The P.Audio HP15W would make a good home sub, Fs 30Hz
about a year ago they were about 1200 Baht in Bangkok. Good for OB too. (I nearly bought some home but bought wood carvings instead)
about a year ago they were about 1200 Baht in Bangkok. Good for OB too. (I nearly bought some home but bought wood carvings instead)
WOW! PeteMcK,you're surprised me with thai baht.LoL 😀 PeteMcK i lived in thailand why i don't know more than u. okay i see the p audio company in thailand now. PeteMcK! is it pa speaker? P.Audio HP15W is very big(15") PeteMcK my problem is when it works with klipsch 3" woofer(ht). i'm afraid that it's not good. because diameter is differance very much. 3"klipsch is guickly to start but 15" is slow. okay if the main speakers are 8" woofer. i will not care about this problem. PeteMcK i saw the scanspeak 7" oh guy,it's very expensive.now with klipsch 3" woofer make me think a lot. but your suggestion with P.Audio HP15W sometime i will buy for another project.
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/quintet-iii.aspx
regards
TW
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/quintet-iii.aspx
regards
TW
screamersusa said:
Just wanted to reply to this one, it seems to be the only post not yet rebutted.
As far as subwoofers are concerned, they still operate inside a box (sealed, ported, maybe a horn) within the car, which is itself a variably lossy enclosure. Bass outside isn't louder, it's just still there mostly, after the mid-highs are filtered out by the panels etc. of the car.
The volume of the car cabin is smaller than a house, thus the volume change (as in Sd*xmax) you have to generate for a given SPL is smaller, and that's why the 'cabin gain' is greater I think. The cabin appears bigger (so less cabin gain) with a lossy cabin, say an open window or a poorly sealed door, large flat side panels, an A/C system. That's the physics excuse for promo girls to sit on cars at dBdrags.
2 cents for on topic, 'car subs' have lathered on them more hype and shiny things to appeal to the car modding culture, and thus are generally more overpriced and make more design decisions based on marketing than SQ, case in point the pentagonal, square, even triangular subs.
I must admit i am sceptical about using modern car subs with extreme x max and equally extreme hunger for power (low sensitivity)
But the older hq car subs does not differ much from good home drivers in my book.
Old Cerwin Vega AL 1000 cabs bougth for the price of a sixpack beer, sealed up and reinforced with 19mm mdf braces.
Volume for bassdriver are roughly 145L wich = QT 0,57
Audax 34mm tweeters <3000hz 6db/okt
Macrom (By Morel) 224W Integra <70 hz 18db/okt (no upper x over)
Rockford Fosgate RFR 2215 Woofers > 70 hz 18db/okt (link to T/S pdf)
the 15" are powered by a 120w/channel stereo amp EACH
8" and tweeters shares a 130w/channel stereo amp
They sound very good (my opinion) but i am probably going too look into a new xover for the 8`s and the tweeters.
I am also in progress with a pair of AL 750 cabs which will have 12" woofers (RF RFR 2212) 6,5" mids (Macrom 59.17) and the same Audax 34mm tweets
But the older hq car subs does not differ much from good home drivers in my book.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Old Cerwin Vega AL 1000 cabs bougth for the price of a sixpack beer, sealed up and reinforced with 19mm mdf braces.
Volume for bassdriver are roughly 145L wich = QT 0,57
Audax 34mm tweeters <3000hz 6db/okt
Macrom (By Morel) 224W Integra <70 hz 18db/okt (no upper x over)
Rockford Fosgate RFR 2215 Woofers > 70 hz 18db/okt (link to T/S pdf)
the 15" are powered by a 120w/channel stereo amp EACH
8" and tweeters shares a 130w/channel stereo amp
They sound very good (my opinion) but i am probably going too look into a new xover for the 8`s and the tweeters.
I am also in progress with a pair of AL 750 cabs which will have 12" woofers (RF RFR 2212) 6,5" mids (Macrom 59.17) and the same Audax 34mm tweets
hi FE3T
well! someone who told about this. i don't trust at all. i think that some car drivers are not good for home sub because the parameter of some brands are not good. but i ever built the other car sub cause that why it worked well. i think the parameter some brands are good.
regards
Tw
well! someone who told about this. i don't trust at all. i think that some car drivers are not good for home sub because the parameter of some brands are not good. but i ever built the other car sub cause that why it worked well. i think the parameter some brands are good.
regards
Tw
Luke352 said:
I have to totally disagree. I've checked more than 70 companies for specs, and most of those sucks, bad, very very bad concerning available parameters and additional data that one (that would be me) wants to know. There are exceptions, but they are very few, and what is most annoying is that even if you e-mail the companies and ask for data, you are very often met with silence! This is my experience, and it has one advantage, you get fewer products to choose from
😉
buggsson your post made me worry very much about design the sub project of my friend. a lot of car sub drivers that i was select. i found a lot of drivers but they were not good. the final that i chose. okay it was rockford fosgate driver. at first i saw the MTX but it's very expensive. ok close box about 80 litre. f3 = 34 hz all guys good luck for me the sound is very good. it works well with klipsch Quintet but loool he spent his money lower than 10" klipsch sub a little. but his driver 12" now he like it. before to built he said " Thawach if it's not good i'll kick u. lol now he never kick me.
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