Surplus shed has a few interesting components right now. Looks like everything you need to DIY a dlp projector.
DMD with controller
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3590.html
Color Wheel
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2610.html
DLP Projection lense
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3551.html
I wonder how hard it would be to build this, using either a cheap fxl bulb, or a MH. Any thoughts guys?
DMD with controller
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3590.html
Color Wheel
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2610.html
DLP Projection lense
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3551.html
I wonder how hard it would be to build this, using either a cheap fxl bulb, or a MH. Any thoughts guys?
That is awesome! I wish I had $200 to screw around with this! I think you'd have to program / design an interface between the driver board and your input (VGA, DVI, Component, etc). You'd also have to program any features (keystoning, balance adjustment, color adjustment) you'd need. This would be an excellent project I think.
Also, the DLP is 60% more efficient than LCDs at light transmission. You'd also need to focus all the light onto the chip (mirrors). That'd be a challenge. Definitely need a spot-style light engine. Boy... That's cool.
Also, the DLP is 60% more efficient than LCDs at light transmission. You'd also need to focus all the light onto the chip (mirrors). That'd be a challenge. Definitely need a spot-style light engine. Boy... That's cool.
You know, upon further inspection it looks like these components are part of the unit below. Looks like they are parting them out.
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/i1478.html
The hard part may be done already..... Just take and fit a nice high power cheap lamp.....
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/i1478.html
The hard part may be done already..... Just take and fit a nice high power cheap lamp.....
I am really tempted to buy that unit! I just saw the VGA port. Do you suppose it would work?
Who wants to be ther first to put their hands on one of those?
Who wants to be ther first to put their hands on one of those?
Add another 200$ for the lamp (no, you will not be able to use something like an Ushio street lighting bulb, coupled with Ikea "reflector"), add another 100$ for building the box, fans, power supply, connectors, etc., and you are already above the price of a ready to use, excellent quality Infocus X1 projector. DLP one, so perharps rainbow problem, but you are going to make a DLP too, with an unspecified color wheel speed (I would assume "unspecified" means x1).
And I doubt anybody could assemble DLP light engine with sufficient precision, using pieces of MDF and things lying around. So add another 200$ for precision machining of a proper chassis. Good luck! Or just buy this Infocus X1, take it apart, and put back together. At least there is much chance it would work well, and you will also have an opportunity to learn a lot.
Regards
And I doubt anybody could assemble DLP light engine with sufficient precision, using pieces of MDF and things lying around. So add another 200$ for precision machining of a proper chassis. Good luck! Or just buy this Infocus X1, take it apart, and put back together. At least there is much chance it would work well, and you will also have an opportunity to learn a lot.
Regards
You know pepe, Everything I've seen you post has been so anti diy projectors I don't know why you bother coming into a forum about them. You have a projector now, so why don't you just go and leave the rest of us alone. Save your breathe, all it does is annoy those who actually enjoy this stuff.
That being said, why would someone use a enormous street lamp in something thats mostly built anyway? there are smaller powerful bulbs , and with dlp there is a 60% greater amount of light passing through so you don't need a huge bulb. Thats why I had mentioned, the fxl. with propoer cooling it could do the job. As for tolerances in building, You really don't give the community of diy pj makers enough credit. For something like this you don't need to use mdf if you dont want to. If I were going to undertake this project, I would be using aluminum.
One more thing. the components are in all likelyhood from an system designed to work together, notice my last post.
color wheel $55
PRECISION DLP PROJECTION LENS ASSEMBLY $18
TEXAS INSTRUMENTS DMD CHIP AND DRIVER BOARDS FOR DLP PROJECTION $115
NEUTRAL DENSITY FILTER WHEEL ASSEMBLY FOR DLP $35
Theoretical amount for parts, $100
Total $323
Infocus X1 $295 for refurb (very quick check with froogle)
OR
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/i1478.html
All the parts above, all ready assembled $175
Theoretical amount for parts, $100
Total $275
I don't know about the rest of you but, it still seems like a completely worthwhile project.
That being said, why would someone use a enormous street lamp in something thats mostly built anyway? there are smaller powerful bulbs , and with dlp there is a 60% greater amount of light passing through so you don't need a huge bulb. Thats why I had mentioned, the fxl. with propoer cooling it could do the job. As for tolerances in building, You really don't give the community of diy pj makers enough credit. For something like this you don't need to use mdf if you dont want to. If I were going to undertake this project, I would be using aluminum.
One more thing. the components are in all likelyhood from an system designed to work together, notice my last post.
color wheel $55
PRECISION DLP PROJECTION LENS ASSEMBLY $18
TEXAS INSTRUMENTS DMD CHIP AND DRIVER BOARDS FOR DLP PROJECTION $115
NEUTRAL DENSITY FILTER WHEEL ASSEMBLY FOR DLP $35
Theoretical amount for parts, $100
Total $323
Infocus X1 $295 for refurb (very quick check with froogle)
OR
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/i1478.html
All the parts above, all ready assembled $175
Theoretical amount for parts, $100
Total $275
I don't know about the rest of you but, it still seems like a completely worthwhile project.
A major part of any engineering process is a fundamental decision whether do the process at all or not. If you are focused on results of the process, skipping this step is a principal error. You can only skip it if doing the process itself is your goal, and you don't pay attention to results. For example, I play the trumpet, I know my playing is bad, but I like doing it, it's not for public concerts, nor for the money, just for my pleasure, so it's not disputable if I should play trumpet or not. But building a projector is different, I can't believe anybody is doing it purely for pleasure of mastering carpentry in mdf, or to learn how to dismantle an LCD monitor. I bet everybody calculates costs, and expects some reasonable results for this money and work expended. And the present market situation is that you can buy a pretty decent projector, much better than DIY, for a very reasonable price, usualy lower than the price of DIY parts, not even counting your work and risk involved.
As for this DIY DLP, you have no idea how much precision it needs to assemble the whole light engine. It's not a 15" LCD and OHP optics, that you put 1cm further in any direction and still get the same picture. Image, that those tiny mirrors in a DLP chip have a swing of only 12 degree or something like that, and that 12deg swing represents the transition across the whole range of brightness, from almost 0 to 100%. That's only one of many issues you would encounter. And you are wrong, DLP projectors are not more light efficient than LCD, they usualy require more powerful light source, due to wheel with colour filters. There are no colour filters in a modern LCD projector.
What "small powerful bulb" are you going to use? You would need a precision, tightly focused and efficient light, that means a projector bulb. Do you have any spare projector lamps in your drawers? This is the reason most people ever decided to build a DIY projector, the price of this small, precision bulb with mirror.
Sure, it's all doable, you can buy a projector bulb (and proper ballast), order a chassis or maybe even build one (assuming you posses a hi-tech metal workshop with all the machinery), solve all issues you will certainly encounter (and you will be the first one to solve it, no chance to find a ready recipe in some "protected forum"), but are you really willing to pay so much $$$ and spend so much time, while any results are not guaranteed?
Regards
As for this DIY DLP, you have no idea how much precision it needs to assemble the whole light engine. It's not a 15" LCD and OHP optics, that you put 1cm further in any direction and still get the same picture. Image, that those tiny mirrors in a DLP chip have a swing of only 12 degree or something like that, and that 12deg swing represents the transition across the whole range of brightness, from almost 0 to 100%. That's only one of many issues you would encounter. And you are wrong, DLP projectors are not more light efficient than LCD, they usualy require more powerful light source, due to wheel with colour filters. There are no colour filters in a modern LCD projector.
What "small powerful bulb" are you going to use? You would need a precision, tightly focused and efficient light, that means a projector bulb. Do you have any spare projector lamps in your drawers? This is the reason most people ever decided to build a DIY projector, the price of this small, precision bulb with mirror.
Sure, it's all doable, you can buy a projector bulb (and proper ballast), order a chassis or maybe even build one (assuming you posses a hi-tech metal workshop with all the machinery), solve all issues you will certainly encounter (and you will be the first one to solve it, no chance to find a ready recipe in some "protected forum"), but are you really willing to pay so much $$$ and spend so much time, while any results are not guaranteed?
Regards
The point you state about your playing the trumpet applies here as well. Building a projector(or anything else) is as much about the process as it is the result.
I could go out and buy a decent dlp projector and enjoy it. However I am the kind that is happiest with a screw driver in hand. I love working out problems. I do things because i can. I enjoy tinkering with circuits, enclosures and building things that i can easily buy. Very often the journey is as valuable as the destination.
As for not knowing how much precision is needed in assembling the light engine, thats why you work the process, trial and error, the very things that got these projectors (diy I mean) to the point where they are.
As for effiency,
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/4brightness.html
http://www.dlptvshowcase.com/dlptv_faqs.html
http://www.d-ilaprojection.net/
Your problem is that you simply seem to wish to put down those of us with the desire to do something others either can't or won't do. The fact you say it's doable is the point. Will it take work? Of course it will. Nothing worth doing doesn't.
The fact you can't believe someone does it just to do it shows your closed mindedness to how a lot of us think. There's something called pride in accomplishment. A lot of what i build i do simply because i can. I could be like everyone else, and go buy a projector, we have reasons for doing it this way ONe is to be able to say I BUILT IT. The other is a lot of us can't stomach the idea of spending 300 on a bulb.
Not to get off topic but a metal fab shop isn't always high tech. I have access to and very often do use a machine shop to build my toys. Most often though the tools I use are definately low tech (drill press, sheet metal break/shear, benchi grinder, nibbler, dremel) it's easy to build an enclosure. you could do it MDF, plywood, lexan, aluminum, or a combination.
DIY PJ's are easy to do. You could go the regular route, and use a 15inch lcd, or a small lilliput. Metal Halide or halogen, even LED if you can make it work.
The point is you can do it because you can, complain about it if you can't, buy something and walk away, or just forget about it completely. Most of us in this forum do it because we can or want to try.
Honestly if you don't like the idea of this why do you come here so often. I would have just been happy somewhere else and not bother those of us that want to do this.
As for your mention of "Protected Forums" and your dislike of lumen labs, I don't think anyone cares. I'm a member there, here, DPC, and anywhere i can get more info. They have a design that works, and are trying to make a buck (remember it's not just profit, there is over head involved with running a successful site), and help this community out. I don't mind paying the cash for a lifetime membership to a active community involved in what i care about. I mean is 20 (now 10) bucks all that expensive?
Why b*tch?
I accept your arguments that it can be easier if you want to just buy one. I however don't want to, most people here don't want to.
I started this thread initially to propose an IDEA. Not to argue with you. If you don't have anything productive to say thats helpful, why say anything at all?
I could go out and buy a decent dlp projector and enjoy it. However I am the kind that is happiest with a screw driver in hand. I love working out problems. I do things because i can. I enjoy tinkering with circuits, enclosures and building things that i can easily buy. Very often the journey is as valuable as the destination.
As for not knowing how much precision is needed in assembling the light engine, thats why you work the process, trial and error, the very things that got these projectors (diy I mean) to the point where they are.
As for effiency,
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/4brightness.html
http://www.dlptvshowcase.com/dlptv_faqs.html
http://www.d-ilaprojection.net/
Your problem is that you simply seem to wish to put down those of us with the desire to do something others either can't or won't do. The fact you say it's doable is the point. Will it take work? Of course it will. Nothing worth doing doesn't.
The fact you can't believe someone does it just to do it shows your closed mindedness to how a lot of us think. There's something called pride in accomplishment. A lot of what i build i do simply because i can. I could be like everyone else, and go buy a projector, we have reasons for doing it this way ONe is to be able to say I BUILT IT. The other is a lot of us can't stomach the idea of spending 300 on a bulb.
Not to get off topic but a metal fab shop isn't always high tech. I have access to and very often do use a machine shop to build my toys. Most often though the tools I use are definately low tech (drill press, sheet metal break/shear, benchi grinder, nibbler, dremel) it's easy to build an enclosure. you could do it MDF, plywood, lexan, aluminum, or a combination.
DIY PJ's are easy to do. You could go the regular route, and use a 15inch lcd, or a small lilliput. Metal Halide or halogen, even LED if you can make it work.
The point is you can do it because you can, complain about it if you can't, buy something and walk away, or just forget about it completely. Most of us in this forum do it because we can or want to try.
Honestly if you don't like the idea of this why do you come here so often. I would have just been happy somewhere else and not bother those of us that want to do this.
As for your mention of "Protected Forums" and your dislike of lumen labs, I don't think anyone cares. I'm a member there, here, DPC, and anywhere i can get more info. They have a design that works, and are trying to make a buck (remember it's not just profit, there is over head involved with running a successful site), and help this community out. I don't mind paying the cash for a lifetime membership to a active community involved in what i care about. I mean is 20 (now 10) bucks all that expensive?
Why b*tch?
I accept your arguments that it can be easier if you want to just buy one. I however don't want to, most people here don't want to.
I started this thread initially to propose an IDEA. Not to argue with you. If you don't have anything productive to say thats helpful, why say anything at all?
And you skipped the major problem of light source, perharps you already realized that you would need to buy a factory made projector lamp, and this, combined with the cost of those DLP components, makes the whole idea a little bit crazy. Sure, you can try to build it anyway, you will have an unique opportunity to learn about DLP technology, maybe even it would work somehow, but the cost would be unacceptable for most people.
Why do you think LL is now switching to sell commercial projectors, and have cut the membership price by half? It's all economy, people don't build projectors anymore (well, some enthusiasts still will do, but this will be marginal, due to simple economy). I'm not arguing with you, I'm just pointing out the issues you will have to solve if you decide to build this DLP projector. Someone less informed might be reading this thread, sees that enthusiastic info about "cheap components", and rushes to buy that stuff, only to find, that another 300$ is needed for a real projector lamp, 100$ for ballast, and necessary precision is much higher than can be achieved in a typical home workshop.
And no, DLP projectors are not more efficient than LCD. This info you quoted perharps assumes an old, "DIY style" LCD projection. This is not the way modern LCD projectors work. There is no 66% light loss in the filter, and another 50% in the polarizer, now they use a polarization converter and beam splitting method. Anyway, doesn't matter for this project, as you would need to get a commercial projector lamp anyway.
Regards
Why do you think LL is now switching to sell commercial projectors, and have cut the membership price by half? It's all economy, people don't build projectors anymore (well, some enthusiasts still will do, but this will be marginal, due to simple economy). I'm not arguing with you, I'm just pointing out the issues you will have to solve if you decide to build this DLP projector. Someone less informed might be reading this thread, sees that enthusiastic info about "cheap components", and rushes to buy that stuff, only to find, that another 300$ is needed for a real projector lamp, 100$ for ballast, and necessary precision is much higher than can be achieved in a typical home workshop.
And no, DLP projectors are not more efficient than LCD. This info you quoted perharps assumes an old, "DIY style" LCD projection. This is not the way modern LCD projectors work. There is no 66% light loss in the filter, and another 50% in the polarizer, now they use a polarization converter and beam splitting method. Anyway, doesn't matter for this project, as you would need to get a commercial projector lamp anyway.
Regards
Has you taken the time to read those links, you would have seen they are in fact talking about DLP vs Commercial LCD projectors.
A project like the one I'm proposing is not for the faint of heart. These are not lego components. I would have thought that obvious to all but the occasional Simpleton newbie that stumbles in.
As for lamps and lighting, I would myself attempt a fxl halogen. The bulbs i have seen in commercial pj's are usually less than 200w. (The infocus we use at the office are 175w Metal Halide). The fxl, is a 460w halogen that is both unbelieveably bright and hot. And can be had for around $8 online. Sure heat, optics and what not are considerations. But form factor alone makes me willing to deal with those issues to make it work.
Here's a link to a pj using a similair bulb. It actually has less power than the bulb i propose.
http://www.allinbox.com/aad1972b/aad1972.htm
Again your pricing is wrong. You make assumptions that seem a minimum is $400 is additional to what you'd spend to make anything work. I don't see how. Coming at this the way i do (research before, then formulate a plan, then prototype, and fix issues until you have a proper solution) it can cost a bit.
I started into this hobby years ago. I built my first projector about 2 years before I even found this forum. Using an 86vlot 350watt bulb, and a ohp panel. Then results were great. Considering cost was only around $100. My projector that i'm designing and building now is going to cost me maybe 200 when I'm done. Same principles as my first, just miniturized.
And as a simple point of fact I also own a old dlp projector. Got it for a song and dance at a computer show, something like $60. If I get that working (bad ballast, need to take the time to retrofit a different lightsource and modify it so it's no longer looking for the original bulb, etc..), I will still continue with this hobby. There is a certain amount of pride that can be taken in repair, but nothing compared to saying i did it my way.
Good luck with you commrcial pj. It's a shame you lost your way here. I'm done with this conversation pepe. As a wise man opnce said let the a**hole have the last word.
A project like the one I'm proposing is not for the faint of heart. These are not lego components. I would have thought that obvious to all but the occasional Simpleton newbie that stumbles in.
As for lamps and lighting, I would myself attempt a fxl halogen. The bulbs i have seen in commercial pj's are usually less than 200w. (The infocus we use at the office are 175w Metal Halide). The fxl, is a 460w halogen that is both unbelieveably bright and hot. And can be had for around $8 online. Sure heat, optics and what not are considerations. But form factor alone makes me willing to deal with those issues to make it work.
Here's a link to a pj using a similair bulb. It actually has less power than the bulb i propose.
http://www.allinbox.com/aad1972b/aad1972.htm
Again your pricing is wrong. You make assumptions that seem a minimum is $400 is additional to what you'd spend to make anything work. I don't see how. Coming at this the way i do (research before, then formulate a plan, then prototype, and fix issues until you have a proper solution) it can cost a bit.
I started into this hobby years ago. I built my first projector about 2 years before I even found this forum. Using an 86vlot 350watt bulb, and a ohp panel. Then results were great. Considering cost was only around $100. My projector that i'm designing and building now is going to cost me maybe 200 when I'm done. Same principles as my first, just miniturized.
And as a simple point of fact I also own a old dlp projector. Got it for a song and dance at a computer show, something like $60. If I get that working (bad ballast, need to take the time to retrofit a different lightsource and modify it so it's no longer looking for the original bulb, etc..), I will still continue with this hobby. There is a certain amount of pride that can be taken in repair, but nothing compared to saying i did it my way.
Good luck with you commrcial pj. It's a shame you lost your way here. I'm done with this conversation pepe. As a wise man opnce said let the a**hole have the last word.
Dissident75 said:
I totally agree, I am quite sick of pepe spewing his garbage, all he does is dog on DIY, he will never EVER understand the spirit of DIY. I got news for ya pepe, it's not only about the money! So please leave pepe and let us enjoy talking about our DIY projects. 🙂 And well said Dissident. 😎
Thanks blake. I just find it irritating when someone clogs a thread for no good reason other that to spew his rhetoric. I hate getting into flame wars so it was all i could do to just prove my point, backed up with facts.
If he had continued I was finished. Why argue with a fanatic? Anyone else who came into this and actually read it would know where the truth lies.
I have a few projects on my plate at the moment, so I'm not undertaking the diy dlp projector, so much as working my retrofit, and that not until my regular pj is built. I just wanted to throw this out there for anyone ambitious enough to try it.
I have little doubt that this can be done, I hope some one does it. I'll post a log here about my projector and the dlp lightsource retrofit so anyone else attempting it can learn from my actions and mistakes.
If he had continued I was finished. Why argue with a fanatic? Anyone else who came into this and actually read it would know where the truth lies.
I have a few projects on my plate at the moment, so I'm not undertaking the diy dlp projector, so much as working my retrofit, and that not until my regular pj is built. I just wanted to throw this out there for anyone ambitious enough to try it.
I have little doubt that this can be done, I hope some one does it. I'll post a log here about my projector and the dlp lightsource retrofit so anyone else attempting it can learn from my actions and mistakes.
3LCD vs DLP
Let's not chase people away, pepe203 was respectful and pertinent, even if critical. He seems a knowledgeable person. I can follow both sides of the story, though, playing the trumpet like diy. Refugees are often dissidents 😉
According to this http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp.htm 3LCD can be more light efficient than DLPs. I wonder if the micro-lens array has something to do with losing less light in polarisation.
Actually I am not sure how the quad prism recomposes the image, why would each of the 3 R G &B beam steer on the right path, and wouldn't undergo unwanted reflections too?
Lumen lab has indeed become open source.
Let's not chase people away, pepe203 was respectful and pertinent, even if critical. He seems a knowledgeable person. I can follow both sides of the story, though, playing the trumpet like diy. Refugees are often dissidents 😉
According to this http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp.htm 3LCD can be more light efficient than DLPs. I wonder if the micro-lens array has something to do with losing less light in polarisation.
Actually I am not sure how the quad prism recomposes the image, why would each of the 3 R G &B beam steer on the right path, and wouldn't undergo unwanted reflections too?
Lumen lab has indeed become open source.
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/i1478.html
I am looking at this dlp head and it looks fairly together. What is going to make this project difficult? I am tempted to try and make it work. does that piece come with a light source as well?
thanks
I am looking at this dlp head and it looks fairly together. What is going to make this project difficult? I am tempted to try and make it work. does that piece come with a light source as well?
thanks
It is difficult to obtain a narrow, uniform and tightly collimated light beam without using expensive short lived small arc lamps, like the commercial units do. The DLP chip is much smaller than the panels regularly used in diy. And how can you be sure everything except the lamp is ok. If using another light source, you would have to bypass the protection commercial units usualy have, which disables the projector when the original lamp is blown. But that looks doable.
Back to 3LCD, I figured the quad prism may involve mediums with increasing refraction indexes closer to the lens. I guess it may work with enough difference. But it turns out they employ the same dichroic surface trick, as used for splitting the light. The diagonals reflect each only one component.
The micro lens array doesn't deal with polarisation, but it can increase brightness 1.5x by focusig the light to avoid the matrix lines. Polarisation is too more effective when using a special film, which recycles otherwise lost light - another 1.5x brightness gain. This polarisation changer would be welcome to diy as well.
DLPs lose more light because they're mostly sequential systems, with spinning colour wheels. A bit like our panels lose 2/3 light by filtering. I guess a 3DLP would lose less than 3LCD, but also leds, with their very fast swithcing times, will soon make single DLPs a lot better in this respect.
Back to 3LCD, I figured the quad prism may involve mediums with increasing refraction indexes closer to the lens. I guess it may work with enough difference. But it turns out they employ the same dichroic surface trick, as used for splitting the light. The diagonals reflect each only one component.
The micro lens array doesn't deal with polarisation, but it can increase brightness 1.5x by focusig the light to avoid the matrix lines. Polarisation is too more effective when using a special film, which recycles otherwise lost light - another 1.5x brightness gain. This polarisation changer would be welcome to diy as well.
DLPs lose more light because they're mostly sequential systems, with spinning colour wheels. A bit like our panels lose 2/3 light by filtering. I guess a 3DLP would lose less than 3LCD, but also leds, with their very fast swithcing times, will soon make single DLPs a lot better in this respect.
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