I am looking for some plans for a DIY pair of Horn speakers. I am thinking folded horn in a box with a dynamic conventional driver for the Bass. And then on top of that a good compression driver with a multiway horn or just a nice front loaded horn. I will be driving it with my 300B SET amplifier. A very high quality amp. I am looking for spl around 105ish to be on par with my La Scalas that these will be replacing. So I am looking for suggestions. Don't worry about cost at this point. Just toss out some suggestions of nice designs please.
I’ll be interested to see the responses.
I’ve been trying to get there for some time with a horn system. Limitations had me playing with various wide band drivers in front horns trying to supplement them with dipole bass panels and subwoofer. (Few pics)
I’ve done a lot of searching over the years and have not really ever come across a “formula” for a front horn system. Most hardcore horn aficionados seem to all have different ideas and executions.
That said, you have the LaScalas as a reference. Not sure how you want to improve on those.
If you spent any time over at the Klipsch forum (before big brother started deleting threads) than maybe you encountered Claude and heard about his Quarter Pie horn?
It is well documented and is said to have performance that surpasses the LaScala bass horn as well as Peavey FH-1 bass horns. I’d like to try some.
I recently came into a pair of commercial LaSacala bass horn separates for dirt. They need some reinforcement for resonances and prettying up. My intention is to try a few different drivers in them and build a pair of the Anarchy Exodus tapped horns to run below them.
Once the foundation is in place for the low frequency then it’s a free for all up top with a variety of horns and drivers I’ve hoarded.
P.S. Here’s a thread Claude started where various ideas for modding Klipsch and other projects are discussed.
I’ve been trying to get there for some time with a horn system. Limitations had me playing with various wide band drivers in front horns trying to supplement them with dipole bass panels and subwoofer. (Few pics)
I’ve done a lot of searching over the years and have not really ever come across a “formula” for a front horn system. Most hardcore horn aficionados seem to all have different ideas and executions.
That said, you have the LaScalas as a reference. Not sure how you want to improve on those.
If you spent any time over at the Klipsch forum (before big brother started deleting threads) than maybe you encountered Claude and heard about his Quarter Pie horn?
It is well documented and is said to have performance that surpasses the LaScala bass horn as well as Peavey FH-1 bass horns. I’d like to try some.
I recently came into a pair of commercial LaSacala bass horn separates for dirt. They need some reinforcement for resonances and prettying up. My intention is to try a few different drivers in them and build a pair of the Anarchy Exodus tapped horns to run below them.
Once the foundation is in place for the low frequency then it’s a free for all up top with a variety of horns and drivers I’ve hoarded.
P.S. Here’s a thread Claude started where various ideas for modding Klipsch and other projects are discussed.
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I put braces in the center of each side on my LaScalas and it improved the bass more than I was expecting. I was thinking it would tighten it up but I think it improved my response enough to notice it. It might just be the transient change on the edges of the notes that I am hearing but it was noticeable. The reason I want to build speakers is everyone has LaScalas, Compared to having a big cool horn out in the open they appear too tame for my taste. I redid the cross overs with one of the ALK? versions and that made a big difference. But they still lack a bit of bottom end. I have the crites tweeters too. I would like to build a true bass horn so it all blended well but only if I can find an existing system to copy. Thats too much materials to go experimenting.
I get where you’re coming from. I was enamored with the Avant Garde horns when I discovered them and read the reviews. How’d you like to have a pair of these?…
https://www.cessaro.de/home
As far as the LaScala bass limitations. It’s been discussed ad-naseum.
You could try the ported bass reflex add on and hope you are happy with it. It can be done and be reversed if it doesn’t work out.
I’m going with the separate tapped horns for down low. That way I’ll still have them to use with whatever else I may want to try above them.
I’ve got a variety of mid horns…the conical petal horns, Oris 220, Elliptracs, some PRV tractrix as well as the some Edgar salad bowl tractrix horns. I’ve got K55v drivers, but also some BMS, B&C and Dynaudio to try. The top will be one of the B&C DE10 or 120 drivers in LMHAL or some round wood tweeter horns I have.
https://www.cessaro.de/home
As far as the LaScala bass limitations. It’s been discussed ad-naseum.
You could try the ported bass reflex add on and hope you are happy with it. It can be done and be reversed if it doesn’t work out.
I’m going with the separate tapped horns for down low. That way I’ll still have them to use with whatever else I may want to try above them.
I’ve got a variety of mid horns…the conical petal horns, Oris 220, Elliptracs, some PRV tractrix as well as the some Edgar salad bowl tractrix horns. I’ve got K55v drivers, but also some BMS, B&C and Dynaudio to try. The top will be one of the B&C DE10 or 120 drivers in LMHAL or some round wood tweeter horns I have.
Hmm, have you tried the late Prof. Leach's math?
Yeah, I guess we do with mine the simplest of all AFAIK.
Klipsch the company or ??
Claude's 1/4 pi horn
LOL…I was using the term “formula” as more of a euphemism. Mainly that idea that someone’s worked it all out and handed it to us on a silver plater?
Prof. Leach is over my head. You’re the math wiz GM. I’m just floundering around like an idiot half the time try stuff for the fun of it.
No comment on “Klipsch” whether it be the man,company or community…I’ve got no horses in that race. I’m just a guy trying to make some music happen.
Prof. Leach is over my head. You’re the math wiz GM. I’m just floundering around like an idiot half the time try stuff for the fun of it.
No comment on “Klipsch” whether it be the man,company or community…I’ve got no horses in that race. I’m just a guy trying to make some music happen.
Me? Math wiz? I failed Algebra, which kept me out of any Architectural Engineering school I was interested in. Any math I've posted is what others have either done for me eons ago now or published in books, magazines, on-line; In short, just a collector of knowledge math-wise and why I describe myself as just a 'talking head'.
GM, you are too humble for your own good.
Next time I am in your neighbourhood, I will bring a very large sponge to soak up at least part of what you know.
Hopefully we can attend something at the wild and crazy Fox Theatre on Peachstreet.
Tell me what you are in for. Now that Jimmy Buffett is gone…
Next time I am in your neighbourhood, I will bring a very large sponge to soak up at least part of what you know.
Hopefully we can attend something at the wild and crazy Fox Theatre on Peachstreet.
Tell me what you are in for. Now that Jimmy Buffett is gone…
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That's been my whole life (style). That said, I've been fortunate to have the type of intelligence to use other's to design products, complex systems over a wide variety of products that they couldn't do. It use to really pi$$ off the Ga. Tech, etc., engineers that worked for me even though they made considerably higher salaries/benefits based on lifestyles, so didn't last longer that necessary to find employ among their 'kind' as one put it.
'My' best workers though were the tech school's co-op students. The best by far were 'foreign' students that were rotating to the USA for whatever seeming political reason(s) and really highlighted just how abysmally poor overall our educational system was/is and sadly their education/intelligence was only exceeded by their suffocating arrogance. There were at least two I knew that the Feds had to constantly guard for they safety.
ROTFLMAF! Eaton/Cutler-Hammer was apparently a believer in various management seminars and I was always rated as not just a type A, but as one noted, a 'flaming' type 'A' right up there with Hitler, etc.. Never really have understood this though......then again, historically I've on occasion been known for 'not suffering fools gladly', so been a work in progress since I retired.
You ever get over this way?
You're 'killing' me here memories wise; 'You Had to be There' concert at the Fabulous Fox was my 10 y.o. daughter's first of many concerts we shared. We went to all three nights.
Health has kept me from going to concerts for a long time now. Sorely going to miss ARS's (Atlanta Rhythm Section) only nearby concert tomorrow. 😭 I use to take my lunch break in a short walk through some woods over to the recording studio in Doraville, so met them from the beginning and in looking at their website was surprised to see they've been on tour for over a decade now, yet only learned about this one yesterday when my fave political talk radio show gave away some tickets.
The "on a platter" delivery for LS fans is the (new) AL6 Lascala. Interminably long sort of preview "lounge discussion" on YT, but the upshot is throat ported custom 12, active, new midhorn, and 10 more Hz on the bottom.
For "cloneable" DIY or mods to existing LS, you might talk to @gigantic who would be able to hook you up.
For "cloneable" DIY or mods to existing LS, you might talk to @gigantic who would be able to hook you up.
There are a number of people who've modded their LaScala for significantly better performance. Popular modifications include using the PRV WG-4550 mid horn and PRV D2200-PH driver, but it requires cutting the motor board and relocating the tweeter to the top of the cabinet. many have also replaced the tweeter with a Celestion Celestion CDX1-1412 driver and H1SC-8050 lens. If it's top mounted, it can be moved font to back for time alignment. Another thing that improves LaScala performance is the DJK port mod, which uses either an expansion module acoustically coupled to the woofer doghouse beneath the cabinet, or sealed in the upper horn enclosure and coupled to the doghouse, with 2ea 4" x 7" ports, which gives bass extension to 35hz, 20 Hz deeper than stock and 10Hz deeper than the upcoming AL-6 Lascala.
I took mine even further and radically re-engineered them with my own spin on the DJK port mods, increasing the upper cabinet volume by 50%, sealing it and coupling it to the woofer dog house, using a 15" passive radiator in lieu of ports. Combined with a JBL 2225H driver, PRV WG4550 & PRV D4500ND-PH mids, L-MAHL/B&C DE10 tweeters and an active DSP Crossover and 6 mono block amps, I'm getting a +/-3dB frequency response from 20 Hz to 20kHz, an increase of 35Hz in bass response and 2kHz treble over earlier OEM LaScala, with linear time alignment and near linear phase, courtesy of the DSP. With a passive crossover and a single ended amp, you'd get similar frequency response (if your amp was capable), but neither the frequency response, nor time and phase alignment would be particularly flat.
My first impression of the OP’s post and reaction is that he wants a change and maybe isn’t interested in modding the LaScala.
I haven’t even gotten my LaScala project operational yet so I’m still excited about that prospect.
It seems like OP might be looking for a change in aesthetic. Something that is hopefully a notch above the almost stock LaScala.
I’d suggest that it seems like a lot Klipscheads aspire to own a pair of Jubiliee or something based on the K402 horn. Maybe not their cup of tea or budget?
I get it. It’s why I started my front horn experimentation with the Oris horns and wide band drivers. They were cool looking and the resolution did impress me.
Unfortunately, I tired of the severe “head in a vise” beaming in my modest sized living room. Never got the bass support resolved correctly either.
So where is the best support material to be found for a layman who is excited about building a front loaded horn system?
I’ve been all over the web trying to put it together.
Volvotreter’s website has been around forever and has downloadable plans for various horn projects.
https://volvotreter.de/
You still need to figure enough to pick and chose horns and drivers and then figure out how you want to tune the system.
If your OK with digital processing…then that’s probably the most sensible way to figure it out.
Designing and building a passive crossover for a multi way front horns system is a mile over my head, and frankly scares the hell out of me when I consider the time, resources, testing and expenditure.
Tweaking a pair of LaScala with gobs of information to draw on from a large online community seemed a lot more attractive to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d still like to find a way to put together a Bruce Edgar Titan system one day.😉
I haven’t even gotten my LaScala project operational yet so I’m still excited about that prospect.
It seems like OP might be looking for a change in aesthetic. Something that is hopefully a notch above the almost stock LaScala.
I’d suggest that it seems like a lot Klipscheads aspire to own a pair of Jubiliee or something based on the K402 horn. Maybe not their cup of tea or budget?
I get it. It’s why I started my front horn experimentation with the Oris horns and wide band drivers. They were cool looking and the resolution did impress me.
Unfortunately, I tired of the severe “head in a vise” beaming in my modest sized living room. Never got the bass support resolved correctly either.
So where is the best support material to be found for a layman who is excited about building a front loaded horn system?
I’ve been all over the web trying to put it together.
Volvotreter’s website has been around forever and has downloadable plans for various horn projects.
https://volvotreter.de/
You still need to figure enough to pick and chose horns and drivers and then figure out how you want to tune the system.
If your OK with digital processing…then that’s probably the most sensible way to figure it out.
Designing and building a passive crossover for a multi way front horns system is a mile over my head, and frankly scares the hell out of me when I consider the time, resources, testing and expenditure.
Tweaking a pair of LaScala with gobs of information to draw on from a large online community seemed a lot more attractive to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d still like to find a way to put together a Bruce Edgar Titan system one day.😉
If you’re willing to pay for plans…or just as reference material for various interesting horn projects.
https://josephcrowe.com/
https://josephcrowe.com/
The size (and sensitivity) is inversely proportional to the low frequency cut-off (Fc) of the FLH (front loaded horn).
Define the Fc, and you can determine whether something like Inlow's ~25Hz Fc spiral horn
https://inlowsound.weebly.com/spiral-bass-horn.html
or Tom Danley's spiral horn LAB sub at 45" x 45" x 22.5" with an Fc ~35 Hz:
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,174478.0.html#new
Or something smaller that does not reach so low.
Tapped horns (TH) don't require as much mouth area or cabinet volume to go as low as a FLH, something like the Keystone Sub (also a spiral horn) has near the same LF response as the LAB sub, (though lower sensitivity) in about half the cabinet size, 26.5" x22.5" x 45".
At any rate, there are plenty of FLH and TH designs to choose from once you decide size and Fc.
Art