I got a pair of these loudspeakers - I bought them in a box I use for something else, but I was told these were supposed to be Beta 12, but I found Delta 12LFA. Before trying to sell them (they are practically new, not played at all), are these any good for building a sub or midbass horn? I wanted to build a midbass horn with the Betas.
I need them for home HiFi - I have these potential uses for a pair of speakers all actively crossed over. It will be used at low power levels (50 - 75 W amplifier) in domestic environment, so EQ boost is acceptable
1) Low end box for the Fane 12-250TC fullrange in a box. That is crossover around 120 - 180 Hz. The Fanes definitely need some low end support.
2) Low end box for Hedlund horns (crossover around 100 - 150 Hz)
3) Mid-bass horn for my 3/4 way horn system, which would replace Kappa 12LFA in a W-Bin, currently used from ca 100 Hz to 600 Hz, coupled to a large CD horn (JBL2445/2385).
In a quick search, I found the CUBO12 as one design. -3dB at 40 Hz would be great (but not realistic I think) 45 or even 50 Hz would still be acceptable.
Any ideas? Or should I just try to sell them and buy something more suitable for the job - and what 12" (to be bought in Europe) would you recommend?
I need them for home HiFi - I have these potential uses for a pair of speakers all actively crossed over. It will be used at low power levels (50 - 75 W amplifier) in domestic environment, so EQ boost is acceptable
1) Low end box for the Fane 12-250TC fullrange in a box. That is crossover around 120 - 180 Hz. The Fanes definitely need some low end support.
2) Low end box for Hedlund horns (crossover around 100 - 150 Hz)
3) Mid-bass horn for my 3/4 way horn system, which would replace Kappa 12LFA in a W-Bin, currently used from ca 100 Hz to 600 Hz, coupled to a large CD horn (JBL2445/2385).
In a quick search, I found the CUBO12 as one design. -3dB at 40 Hz would be great (but not realistic I think) 45 or even 50 Hz would still be acceptable.
Any ideas? Or should I just try to sell them and buy something more suitable for the job - and what 12" (to be bought in Europe) would you recommend?
I think they are fine for home use as a sub. I used one as a replacement for my Bastanis 12"inch sub.
for midbass horn can ask around about what folks are seeing for directivity effects upon response. I've not sure if I've seen it as strong as below.
here's a sim ~ Inlow's 135Hz horn with Delta12LFA vs 12pe32.
here's a sim ~ Inlow's 135Hz horn with Delta12LFA vs 12pe32.
I did some measurements and listening tests today. If I could build a reasonable size bass/tapped horn with 45 Hz cut off, I would be happy. Even some sort of hybrid bandpass would be nice.
But I am afraid, not with these. Maybe it is time to try a Karlson K12 or a superplanar kick for midbass duties.
But I am afraid, not with these. Maybe it is time to try a Karlson K12 or a superplanar kick for midbass duties.
its got a bit more xmax than needed for K12 - but should be "ok". I think it woulkd fit GregB's Karlsonator12 which is tuned to 37Hz. Some sort of tapped pipe could work. MAybe someone who's good with simulating them will step in.
here's a guestimate of Delta12LFA in the Acoustic Control 115BK Karlson cabinet. Its aonly about 13.5" deep, 27" high and 20.5" wide.
if building, I make a cutout for a 15 and use an adapter for the 12 to give the box more usefulness
here's a guestimate of Delta12LFA in the Acoustic Control 115BK Karlson cabinet. Its aonly about 13.5" deep, 27" high and 20.5" wide.
if building, I make a cutout for a 15 and use an adapter for the 12 to give the box more usefulness
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How low can they go? Delta 12LFA specs say ~13-200 Hz, but the horn would obviously be incredibly large........
Otherwise, ~51*0.707 = ~36-200 Hz in a still huge ~Jensen Imperial BLH box for full loading, so can be shrunk for a higher horn loading cut-off with just TL loading below and there's always the BIB pipe horn, especially if there's corners available.
GM
Otherwise, ~51*0.707 = ~36-200 Hz in a still huge ~Jensen Imperial BLH box for full loading, so can be shrunk for a higher horn loading cut-off with just TL loading below and there's always the BIB pipe horn, especially if there's corners available.
GM
The Karlsonator looks like something that I was looking for. Unfortunately, the room I use now has no usable corners. I will try to play around with Hornresp. Freddi and GM, thank you very much for the input!
you could put Delta12LF in the little Karlflex15 designed by TB46. Its qts is good for this type. It looks somewhat peaky in CUBO - bt maybe not a bad place to peak.
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That looks even better🙂 Now I just need to decide and have some plywood cut when my carpenter gets back from his vacation.
one fun (??) thing might be to build a JBL Harkness, keep the cutout for 15 and use an adaptor plate for your 12" speakers. It would be "loud" - but would it be loud in a good place/way ? 😀 Hornresp says at 100Hz 2 pi, (Beta12cx would be about 104dB)
There should be some good blh possibilites with less path than BIB - but that could be pretty awesome
There should be some good blh possibilites with less path than BIB - but that could be pretty awesome
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Still playing around with the different options for the Delta12LFA.
This is a single fold ML-TL inspired by Brian Steele's PA310 sub. Quite reasonable size and only one extra internal board compared to bass reflex. The gain is 5 ms less group delay.
When I find some hornresp input file, I just stick in the Delta to see, how it would perform. This is in a 1x15" Paraflex Type C2A:
It looks like something could be gained here in exchange for the large box size.
This is a single fold ML-TL inspired by Brian Steele's PA310 sub. Quite reasonable size and only one extra internal board compared to bass reflex. The gain is 5 ms less group delay.
When I find some hornresp input file, I just stick in the Delta to see, how it would perform. This is in a 1x15" Paraflex Type C2A:
It looks like something could be gained here in exchange for the large box size.
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I am not sure if I get the message fully. So the factory specifications in the datasheet are wrong? I took them directly from Eminence website.
Edit: Now I see, you use the semi-inductance model. The FR using it is slightly worse, but it will not make any difference as I see it. Or am I still missing something?
Edit: Now I see, you use the semi-inductance model. The FR using it is slightly worse, but it will not make any difference as I see it. Or am I still missing something?
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Data must be consistent...Cross check all Data(+ given Pictures) and you should realise that Advertised Data is not fully reliable.
b 🙂
So you measured the impedance curve yourself? Or where does it come from? I must finally make my own impedance measurement rig to do the measurements myself - and therefore get the real parameters and also the semi-inductance. Is that Vituix CAD? I yet have to try that out.
But on the other hand, even the modified response does not look too bad for the planned use (that is LR24 XO at max 200 Hz, more probably around 120 Hz).
By the way, thanks a lot, your input is really appreciated!
Edit: I found yet another measured set of TS parameters, see attachment.
But on the other hand, even the modified response does not look too bad for the planned use (that is LR24 XO at max 200 Hz, more probably around 120 Hz).
By the way, thanks a lot, your input is really appreciated!
Edit: I found yet another measured set of TS parameters, see attachment.
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No it's the Advertised Curve backing up the provided given TS
If you don't want to get Localization issues LR24 Max. XO is ~145 Hz when ~250 Hz is <= 20 dB down.
Vituix CAD is just a convenient Tool to capture Curves and to estimate semi-inductance parameters.
'FR using it is slightly worse'
No!!! IMO:You should not use this type of HR FR Graph ,especially 'when you only eyeballing' when trying to estimate/judge'Performance differences unless factoring the Phase Response : In my World only ignorant Laymen are doing this...
Have a look at this Picture: ....
Tapped Horn
..... and you may get a better understanding on how to make the Design idea more completed
b 🙂
I feel like I am missing something. So you suggest to include EQ and XO into the simulation and watch the phase response? The goal is to have a flat phase response in the intended use band? Would you be so kind and tell me some more tips on how to do all this? The thing is, I have two Delta 12LFA speakers and I want to built subwoofers out of them, going as low as possible. This ML-TL or BR box of ca 110 l seems quite good so far to me - but any hints on further optimization will be helpful.
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