I would like to know the "pecking" order for materials used in film capacitors for audio.
So generally speaking would polypropelyne be better than polyester? as well as metalized compared to non metalized?.
Where do foil and film/foil combinations fit in? Are they better?
I always thought that polystryene was at the top end for materials but now I'm not so sure!!
I know this is a very subjective question, but I read that the "wima" brand is not well regarded in audio so is there a couple of brands that are beter to use in solid state amplifers.
I have used Wima's in the past but have nothing to compare them against.
So generally speaking would polypropelyne be better than polyester? as well as metalized compared to non metalized?.
Where do foil and film/foil combinations fit in? Are they better?
I always thought that polystryene was at the top end for materials but now I'm not so sure!!
I know this is a very subjective question, but I read that the "wima" brand is not well regarded in audio so is there a couple of brands that are beter to use in solid state amplifers.
I have used Wima's in the past but have nothing to compare them against.
rtate,
here it is especially for you, in order of decreasing audio quality and operating frequency range, increasing dielectric and resistive losses and coloration:
1 Polytetrafluorethylene (PTFE, teflon)
2 Polystyrene (styrene, styroflex, styrol)
3 Polypropylene
4 Polycarbonate
5 Polyester (Mylar)
Non-metalized film is better than metalized film, higher voltage rating and larger physical size as well.
Wima capacitors do have very high sonic and technical quality.
here it is especially for you, in order of decreasing audio quality and operating frequency range, increasing dielectric and resistive losses and coloration:
1 Polytetrafluorethylene (PTFE, teflon)
2 Polystyrene (styrene, styroflex, styrol)
3 Polypropylene
4 Polycarbonate
5 Polyester (Mylar)
Non-metalized film is better than metalized film, higher voltage rating and larger physical size as well.
Wima capacitors do have very high sonic and technical quality.
Wimas are excellent, in my experience. Many of the so-called better caps perform worse (especially with regard to microphonics), and none can be shown to perform significantly better in an audio application.
rtate said:
To Both questions: Yes!
Sometimes is not easy to know if a polester / polypropylene is metallized.
The ranking goes:
0. No cap at all. DC in - DC out ..... uses this!
1. Polystyrene (very hard to find, and only values in pF range)
2. Polypropylene. A bit more expesive than MKT, metallized Polyester
2b. Polycabonate. Good, but seems not made any more.
3. Metallized Polyester. MKT. Among others Philips has made
lightblue coloured squared of these.
These above are Audio quality for signal coupling.
What we should go for.
-------
4. Polyester. Good for op amp power supply pin bypassing. Usually 100nF.
And other use in amplifiers, where not directly signal travels.
--------------------
If you search forum., you will find plenty of good topics about Audio Quality capacitors.
The most often quoted investigation work and classical paper
is by Jung / March
This is a very good work, with tests of all sorts of caps
and a compare and conclusion how we could best use different material capacitors in Audio.
And how NOT to do 🙂
There are some new 'exotic' caps. Very expensive and often not easy to find everywhere in our big world.
Materials like teflon and some sulfide something.
Lineup 🙂 audio cap regars
Thanks for the replys they are very helpful!!
So where does "silvermica" fit in this pecking order?
So where does "silvermica" fit in this pecking order?
rtate said:
For what? Each cap type exists for a reason and different circuit functions have different needs.
THE BEST OF BOB PEASE
Understand Capacitor Soakage to Optimize Analog Systems:
http://www.national.com/rap/Application/0,1570,28,00.html
plots DA for some cap dielectric types, the usual assumption is that DA is a good proxy for "audio quality" (although much searching hasn't shown me a theoretical justification)
but assuming that DA ~= audio quality then silver mica are in the same range as polyester - depending on material details mylar can be "better" according to Bob's graph
also Bob's graph suggests NP0/C0G ceramic should be a superior substitute for silver mica with similar high (at least for audio amplifiers) frequency properties as well
Understand Capacitor Soakage to Optimize Analog Systems:
http://www.national.com/rap/Application/0,1570,28,00.html
plots DA for some cap dielectric types, the usual assumption is that DA is a good proxy for "audio quality" (although much searching hasn't shown me a theoretical justification)
but assuming that DA ~= audio quality then silver mica are in the same range as polyester - depending on material details mylar can be "better" according to Bob's graph
also Bob's graph suggests NP0/C0G ceramic should be a superior substitute for silver mica with similar high (at least for audio amplifiers) frequency properties as well
Cyril Bateman's massive series of articles about capacitors from Electronics World magazine can now be ordered on CD.
See his website for some downloads as well as ordering info:
http://uk.geocities.com/cyrilb2@btinternet.com/
See his website for some downloads as well as ordering info:
http://uk.geocities.com/cyrilb2@btinternet.com/
rtate said:
In generally speaking, ask you ask:
Why don't you try finding it out by listening ? Are those you want to order so expensive ? If yes, buy the cheapest ones to start and comparison in listening. The biggest improvement is done by beginning on lo-fi ... you'll have more fun in improvements ... AND you are sure that you can HEAR them ...
Ask a blind musician, in fact he/she will rather hear a difference ...
... maybe on oscilloscope there are differences, but I can't hear any in my set, or maybe I even specially like this very difference. 😉 Even very cheap parts have their privilege in circuits . 😴
jcx,
since dielectric is the decisive factor for audio quality (and other features), DA cannot be used as a general measure. It follows however that order of precedence within the family of film capacitors.
since dielectric is the decisive factor for audio quality (and other features), DA cannot be used as a general measure. It follows however that order of precedence within the family of film capacitors.
jcx,
clarification, I should have said:dielectric material (materials used for insulation are of primary importance).
I will try to answer your question, give me some time, please.
clarification, I should have said:dielectric material (materials used for insulation are of primary importance).
I will try to answer your question, give me some time, please.
I've seen a suggestion to use PET film caps in the signal path for audio equipment,
any opinions on this?
Seems these are Polyester film, lol, anything unique about PET type, any difference
in material from Mylar types made 40 years ago?
any opinions on this?
Seems these are Polyester film, lol, anything unique about PET type, any difference
in material from Mylar types made 40 years ago?
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Utter nonsense
This post is useless and based on nothing except reading other peoples' nonsense
THIS is NOT "nonsense" and is based on actual tests:
Cyril Bateman's Capacitor Sound articles | Linear Audio NL
"Yes" for Pet in audio signal path :
https://www.wima.de/wp-content/uploads/media/e_WIMA_MKS_2.pdf
"Not" according to Cyril Bateman's Capacitor Sound articles.
https://www.wima.de/wp-content/uploads/media/e_WIMA_MKS_2.pdf
"Not" according to Cyril Bateman's Capacitor Sound articles.
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It's nothing but nonsense, pure rubbish
Who are these experts?
Purveyors of nonsense writing for publications and making videos that maybe 15 people know or care about
And to give them maybe a small benefit of the doubt, when they actually do measure things, the things they measure and seem so concerned with are all IRRELEVANT to the audio band and frequencies
Same as for the wire people
Nonsense
Rubbish
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