Hello everybody.
Could someone tell me which are the flattest fullrange drivers?
91 92dB are enought.
Because when I look for the frequency response measured by users, not by the manufacturer, it is tremendously irregular, with peaks and bumps.
Could be Fostex, Audax, Mark Audio , Seas , etc.
Until about 200uss each.
Voxative , AER , Davis , Feastrex , etc are out of my budgeThanks
Could someone tell me which are the flattest fullrange drivers?
91 92dB are enought.
Because when I look for the frequency response measured by users, not by the manufacturer, it is tremendously irregular, with peaks and bumps.
Could be Fostex, Audax, Mark Audio , Seas , etc.
Until about 200uss each.
Voxative , AER , Davis , Feastrex , etc are out of my budgeThanks
You don't want a 'flat high efficiency fullrange'. They beam more at higher frequencies and if they are flat, the energy bilance in the room gets worse the higher the frequency, since the reflections are perceived in the tonal balance too. Use a big fullrange driver with rising level but don't listen to it at 0° but 10, 15° or so.
Take a look at some of the Lii Audio drivers and believe their FR graphs blindly 😉
Trolling aside, they have some great $/performance models and while my F15s are nowhere near the graph, I adore them with a little help of a notch 🙂
Trolling aside, they have some great $/performance models and while my F15s are nowhere near the graph, I adore them with a little help of a notch 🙂
The Faital 3FE and 4FE series are rather flat and that efficient, but don't go low at all. If you want to go low with those drivers (aka no subwoofer), you'll probally have to stay lower in effiency like the Mark Audio CHN110. But no fullrange driver will be totally flat, that is physically impossible i think from one cone without eq. Even multiway speakers without eq are seldom real flat in response. And a slightly rising response is not that bad, but only when it's slightly rising. Otherwise some eq (passive or dsp) is often the solution.
A notch filter is needed on many FR drivers. But tbh, the Lii drivers all got a very high Qts which makes it quite hard to use them other than in OB and I'm not a fan of their foam surrounds which will dissolve in 10-20 years. I honestly believe they sound good but I'm not convinced every of their drivers do. Their Silver-10 Flagship 10″ Fullrange Drivers go from 87dB@400Hz to 118dB(?!😱)@10k, don't you think a range of 31dB difference in level isn't actually that great? I mean, that goes a bit above 'sounding', don't you think?
At least their Silver-10 flagship got decent parameters, if you believe the text Qts of 0,31 in the graph. Though, according to the impedance measurement they got a Qts of far over 1 (impedance peak at 250 Ohm!). The very high Qts is the price you have to pay for the extremely low moving mass (Mss just 12g for a 10" 😱), which is really impressive. Though the mismatch of the stated parameters and the measurements do not tempt me to 'just try it' at a pair price of over 1000 bucks. They might sound very good but you very likely have to build very special enclosures with strong room interaction for them.
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Hi Moo,
I'm quite baffled myself that their latest generation (and most expensive) drivers have a huge shelve in the high mid/treble.
I didn't really respond to the OP's question, but was probably too enthusiastic to share my experience with the F15, which is in his price range. These have a treated paper surround and sound really smooth with a notch at 6.5 khz (bye sibilance). I'm using them in OB indeed. Much prefer the depth versus razor-sharp imaging of monopole speakers.
Good point on the foam surround though - I've been eyeballing the F8, and those have it. But isn't current-day surround foam more durable than the old stuff?
If the Mark Audio's graphs are to be trusted, my vote would go to 12P as well.
Simon
I'm quite baffled myself that their latest generation (and most expensive) drivers have a huge shelve in the high mid/treble.
I didn't really respond to the OP's question, but was probably too enthusiastic to share my experience with the F15, which is in his price range. These have a treated paper surround and sound really smooth with a notch at 6.5 khz (bye sibilance). I'm using them in OB indeed. Much prefer the depth versus razor-sharp imaging of monopole speakers.
Good point on the foam surround though - I've been eyeballing the F8, and those have it. But isn't current-day surround foam more durable than the old stuff?
If the Mark Audio's graphs are to be trusted, my vote would go to 12P as well.
Simon
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The problem with lii specs are that they are not accurate at all. The real measured specs are far off from the published ones as many measurments show. They are very hyped now, but i don't think those are good at all.
If you want a big driver, the very cheap Fane Sovereighn 12-250TC is a much better one i think, altough it also needs a big box and a serious notch and don't use more than 20w with it as fullrange driver with low bass. It's advertised as much more powerfull, but that is because it was ment as P.A. driver with a woofer below 200Hz.
I've got cheap panasonic 6,5in bass drivers which are stable for over 25 years. So yes, it is possible. The caveat is, how can this be achieved? The enemy is the UV light. What did they use to stabilize the surround? Dark pigments which block off the UV and most of the rest of the spectrum of the light. What colour does the Lii drivers surround have? White. I can predict how that goes, at first the surrounds start yellowing in the first three years and after ~8-10 years they start to get a rough surface (about 4-5 if they are in the direct sunlight), the cone is yellow at that point too and after that they start seriously decomposing, desintegrating and crumbling to dust on touch after that. The same happened to the Coral drivers too back then.
The Mark Audio's are great but you have to live with the resonances in the lower midrange (clearly visible on the impedance graph).
My experience with F15: while the published FR is certainly way off, they are most definitely ear-candy 
Thanks for your take on the foam surrounds, Moo.
No F8 for my other project then. Either 12P or the fe126en (and 7khz notch) I have lying around.
No F8 for my other project then. Either 12P or the fe126en (and 7khz notch) I have lying around.
My experience with F15: while the published FR is certainly way off, they are most definitely ear-candy
I absolutely believe you. A 'bad' FR can still sound good because of the room impression, precise location, impulse response and homogeneity (often amazing at FR drivers!). The dynamics are often amazing on big FR drivers, I've got the 12" Philips AD12202-M8 for around 15 years now and while the linearity isn't great, in almost all the other categories they are amazing. Sometimes you have to decide which compromise you're taking in some regard to get other criteria to the next level. The Philips FR are excellent in dynamics, details and room impression, drums reproduction goes under the skin, they do it with authority, the dynamics are rendered with such ease. And they can really go, 110dB are as relaxed as other speakers are at maybe 95dB.
But where's sunlight, there's shadow too. They are not linear (fixed that by dsp), got a tight sweet spot and they are a bit soft in the bass in a ported enclosure or don't go very deep in a sealed enclosure, ~65Hz isn't what I expect and need, so sealed is no option.
On large FR drivers you have to deal with trade-offs, only you can yourself decide what criteria is a must, what can be compromised and what can be neglected.
So far I plan to build new speakers with the Fane Sovereign 12-250 TC, they got the kinda unique triple cone configuration and are very promising and on top of that, for 79€ they are dirt cheap compared to other 12" FR drivers! I hope for a wider dispersion than the Philips and if they don't perform better I can still use them as workshop speakers or maybe PA monitors.
I'm sorry I did not notice your reply, I only just realized. 😱
Yes, I agree, the Fane are extremely promising on paper and I've planned to use them for a very long time yet I haven't so far. After finishing my 15"/3-way horn speaker I'll take them up as my next project (which I wanted for YEARS).
I am pretty sure the Fane will perform well down to 120-150Hz with a proper DSP setup.
Because of the parameters needed for a FR driver, even large FRs need or at least will profit from subwoofer reenforcement or a horn enclosure. But the very high Qts of many large FR drivers leaves no other option of an open baffle or a sub/sat setup.
With DSP you would get all the bass you want from a F15. I use subs that chime in at 120hz. Many roads to paradise.
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Hello, if you live in Argentina, you should buy in the USA and not in Europe because of the freight costs.
Here you have to choose, but it would be good to know what size of speaker and type of construction you have in mind, to be able to advise better.
Audax are affordable and good speakers
Full Range Speakers
Here you have to choose, but it would be good to know what size of speaker and type of construction you have in mind, to be able to advise better.
Audax are affordable and good speakers
Full Range Speakers
That depends strongly on the driver. More so on it's excursion if you need high spl. High excursion leads to huge distortion in the mid and treble. While you can reduce the excursion greatly by limiting the lower frequency range of the FR, it all depends on what spl you need and I can assure you, not all needs will be satisfied in every case. And depending on what subs you use, you might xo them lower too.
Uhm, no. Not at all. The Audax home page isn't working atm but on the page of Madisound there is just one single Audax speaker labelled FR and the 13cm Audax 13LB25AL isn't by far capable to reproduce full range at all, it crosses the 90dB/2,83dB at 230Hz which means it got there a spl/1W of 87dB because it's nominally a 6 Ohm speaker, it's actually usable above ~380Hz. That does not make it a bad speaker but by far not a fullrange driver, from its parameters and its Xmax of 1,75mm it's best used as a midrange horn driver above ~500-600Hz.
I know that the Audax page does not work, I mentioned that brand only because I saw it with an attractive price. But the OP can choose the one he likes the most from other brands too!
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There is a matter which you need to clear up. Flatest means, flat within frequency response or most extended.
Most full range speakers tend to have rising response. Plus you will also need baffle step compensation unless you have super wide baffles.
Better to get most extended and fix the problem with DSP.
Oon
Most full range speakers tend to have rising response. Plus you will also need baffle step compensation unless you have super wide baffles.
Better to get most extended and fix the problem with DSP.
Oon
Santitrucco:
FE206En based BLH speakers
This construction was a " goal" with the Fostex FE 206 at the time, surely there must be current equivalent of that speaker.
Fostex FE168NS 6.5 "Full Range looks great ...
Fostex FE168NS 7.5" Full Range
FE206En based BLH speakers
This construction was a " goal" with the Fostex FE 206 at the time, surely there must be current equivalent of that speaker.
Fostex FE168NS 6.5 "Full Range looks great ...
Fostex FE168NS 7.5" Full Range
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OP :
On the Fostex page you have very valuable information, the cabinets for certain speakers are already calculated by the manufacturer, which is a great advantage in my opinion.
Which does not take away from the pleasure of experimenting with Win Isd or other similar software, although I do not remember any for horn speaker designs, which are the most recommended in low-inch speakers.
For example :
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/recom_enclose/168ez_enclrev.pdf
On the Fostex page you have very valuable information, the cabinets for certain speakers are already calculated by the manufacturer, which is a great advantage in my opinion.
Which does not take away from the pleasure of experimenting with Win Isd or other similar software, although I do not remember any for horn speaker designs, which are the most recommended in low-inch speakers.
For example :
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/recom_enclose/168ez_enclrev.pdf