Is there a good formula for speaker size in relation to the room’s size?
I want to build some speakers that fit the room my hi-fi is in.
At the moment I have a choice of speakers :
RTL TDL2’s mk1’s
B&W 602’s
These are hooked upto a
AC Azur 650 A
AC Azur DacMAgi
Sony SACD.
I find the B&W’s are to powerful, hard to explain the room somehow makes them sound muddy at medium volume, but this get less as I lower the volume, it’s as if the sound bouncing back at the speakers , I can’t explain it I’m no audiophile, I just like what I hear.
The rooms about 20 ft by 16 ft, and I listen between the 16ft walls. So sat in my chair I’m probably 12 feet from the speakers.
Anyone recommend a speaker size for those dimensions I could easily build?
I’d like just a all-round listening speaker, I don’t mind spending money on good parts and the case I can make at my friends joinery shop.
I want to build some speakers that fit the room my hi-fi is in.
At the moment I have a choice of speakers :
RTL TDL2’s mk1’s
B&W 602’s
These are hooked upto a
AC Azur 650 A
AC Azur DacMAgi
Sony SACD.
I find the B&W’s are to powerful, hard to explain the room somehow makes them sound muddy at medium volume, but this get less as I lower the volume, it’s as if the sound bouncing back at the speakers , I can’t explain it I’m no audiophile, I just like what I hear.
The rooms about 20 ft by 16 ft, and I listen between the 16ft walls. So sat in my chair I’m probably 12 feet from the speakers.
Anyone recommend a speaker size for those dimensions I could easily build?
I’d like just a all-round listening speaker, I don’t mind spending money on good parts and the case I can make at my friends joinery shop.
Sorry I forgot to mention the TDL's , I had a Pair 20 years ago and loved them, I bought this pair , because I wanted to see if I could create another set with better parts.. they are tired, old and scratched .. bit like me , but somebody has to love them.. I will be taking them apart soon
Hi,
Move the B&W's away from the back wall and side wall, until they sound right.
Its not rocket science, and done properly bass extension will sound better.
They must be on correct height stands, to work well.
Moving your chair away from the back wall will smooth bass.
rgds, sreten.
Move the B&W's away from the back wall and side wall, until they sound right.
Its not rocket science, and done properly bass extension will sound better.
They must be on correct height stands, to work well.
Moving your chair away from the back wall will smooth bass.
rgds, sreten.
This is the problem, space I dont really have that much room around the speakers, one of the reasons I was thinking of going to a smaller speakers.
Smaller speaker with higher specs I think may help the room accustics?
After reading other threads its seems the amp you are hooking up to makes a difference in speaker part choice.
The AC 650a :-
Power Output: 75 Watts (into 8 Ohms)
THD (unweighted): <0.002% @ 1kHz, 80% of rated power
<0.03% 20Hz - 20kHz, 80% of rated power
<0.02% 20Hz - 20kHz @ 10W
Frequency Response: 5Hz - 50kHz (-1dB)
Signal to Noise Ratio (No weighting): >92dB
Input Impedance: 47kohms
Power amp damping factor: >100
Max. Power Consumption: 600W
Hi,
I basically completely disagree. Your room is big for the speakers.
Try lining the ports with 1/4" open cell foam, length x 3xdiameter
to tighten up bass, And typically make rear wall distance ~ half
stand height and typically side wall distance ~ double, or more.
rgds, sreten.
Your other options are to go with a large rear wall distance, greater
than effective stand height. This gives the best lower bass boost.
I basically completely disagree. Your room is big for the speakers.
Try lining the ports with 1/4" open cell foam, length x 3xdiameter
to tighten up bass, And typically make rear wall distance ~ half
stand height and typically side wall distance ~ double, or more.
rgds, sreten.
Your other options are to go with a large rear wall distance, greater
than effective stand height. This gives the best lower bass boost.
Last edited:
Thanks I'll try that, I'll move the furniture around I will try it length ways as the longer walls have a door in the middle on both sides .. I'll set it up and take a picture..
There is a lot to be said for putting them (and yourself) in the right location. Upper bass and midrange will benefit from this. Bass is different, subs can help, but I'm speaking here in the interest of placement not bass extension. Small changes can be worth trying. Subtle, but not...
Once I have made the space I will retry my RTL Transmissions because they do suffer from cramped surroundings.. but like I said they need upgrades they have had "Bad previous owners"
Sorry to sound dum but does that mean stuffing them from the front or opening the Case and lining around them ?
Hi,
A piece of foam port length x 3xdia can be folded into a tube
and inserted into the port, where it will be self supporting,
this will detune the port, tightening the bass somewhat.
rgds, sreten.
On a piece of graph paper you can draw your room to scale and then try to determine if your speaker placement can be better, based on bass wavelengths (and half-wavelengths)...
(bad explanation, but another tool that's easy to try and quite intuitive....)
(bad explanation, but another tool that's easy to try and quite intuitive....)
Just my opinion, but I think people completely misjudge Speaker Placement. They claim they can't have their speaker any farther forward, but I have a feeling in 90% of the cases, that statement has more to do with belief than reality.
In made case, I have my amps and TV on a oak combined TV/equipment Rack. I simply move the speakers forward so the fronts are even with the fronts of the equipment rack, and that gives them about 12" behind. My Wharfedale speakers are not noted for needing a great deal of space, even though they are rear ported, and at 12 inches, they sound fine. Though I concede that at 16" they would probably sound a trace better.
Now I had some JBL Stadium, which are roughly the same as the Wharfedale, and the JBL absolutely would not work at 12". Through some experimentation, they needed 18" minimum, and were much happier at 24".
Both speakers are floorstanding/tower with twin 8" woofers.
I also notice that the problem with the JBL was not simply too much or too little bass. The reflected bass tended to muddy up the mid/voice range something terrible. In my case, the only way to fix that was to plug the rear firing ports. The JBL were bass heavy to start with, so plugging the port didn't change it that much, and it at least made them tolerable to listen to.
If nothing else, just as an experiment, start moving your speakers forward in 6" increment, just to see how the sound changed. Then, with the results in mind, sit back and think to yourself, what is the REAL minimum distance I can place the speakers?
I've never know the B&W 600 series to need substantial space around them. Space yes, but not the very substantial space the JBL needed. The B&W 600 series are very popular speakers, and even the older 602/similar are still going strong and still in high demand.
Finally, while you may find speakers that work better in your space, if the space itself is flawed, or the speaker positioning is up against the wall, then you are always going to have problems.
We need to really figure out what the problem actually is? And more than likely, it is either room acoustics or speaker placement, both of which you can do something about.
How about a precise description of where and how the speakers are place? The distance from the back of the speaker to the wall? The distance between the speakers? The distance from the speakers to the side walls? A general description of the room, types of furnishings, leather or fabric, curtains, carpets, ceilings, cluttered or clean, etc...?
In all honesty, I don't think the problem is the speakers.
Steve/bluewizard
In made case, I have my amps and TV on a oak combined TV/equipment Rack. I simply move the speakers forward so the fronts are even with the fronts of the equipment rack, and that gives them about 12" behind. My Wharfedale speakers are not noted for needing a great deal of space, even though they are rear ported, and at 12 inches, they sound fine. Though I concede that at 16" they would probably sound a trace better.
Now I had some JBL Stadium, which are roughly the same as the Wharfedale, and the JBL absolutely would not work at 12". Through some experimentation, they needed 18" minimum, and were much happier at 24".
Both speakers are floorstanding/tower with twin 8" woofers.
I also notice that the problem with the JBL was not simply too much or too little bass. The reflected bass tended to muddy up the mid/voice range something terrible. In my case, the only way to fix that was to plug the rear firing ports. The JBL were bass heavy to start with, so plugging the port didn't change it that much, and it at least made them tolerable to listen to.
If nothing else, just as an experiment, start moving your speakers forward in 6" increment, just to see how the sound changed. Then, with the results in mind, sit back and think to yourself, what is the REAL minimum distance I can place the speakers?
I've never know the B&W 600 series to need substantial space around them. Space yes, but not the very substantial space the JBL needed. The B&W 600 series are very popular speakers, and even the older 602/similar are still going strong and still in high demand.
Finally, while you may find speakers that work better in your space, if the space itself is flawed, or the speaker positioning is up against the wall, then you are always going to have problems.
We need to really figure out what the problem actually is? And more than likely, it is either room acoustics or speaker placement, both of which you can do something about.
How about a precise description of where and how the speakers are place? The distance from the back of the speaker to the wall? The distance between the speakers? The distance from the speakers to the side walls? A general description of the room, types of furnishings, leather or fabric, curtains, carpets, ceilings, cluttered or clean, etc...?
In all honesty, I don't think the problem is the speakers.
Steve/bluewizard
I have swapped my B&W 602's for the old pair of TDL RTL 2's I bought to upgrade. I also moved the system so it now faces length ways along the room. First of all I still had the B&W’s attached and the move didn’t make any difference at all. Then I thought I would just test the TDL’s, what a HUGE difference! Tighter crisper everything , sound stage was not only there but the widest I had heard for a long time, however I did give the TDL’s a huge amount of air, 2 feet of space from the rear and side walls, I’m stunned,
That a 20 year old pair of , (let’s face it) entry level priced floor stand speakers, can sound so good !. I was so shocked I asked a friend of mine who introduced me to better quality sound if he would pop around and take a listen to the new setup. When he did he didn’t believe me that I had simply moved things around, we had discussed a quite expensive upgrade for the TDL’s when I bought them off eBay , so he automatically assumed I had done the upgrade ,even though we had both sat and auditioned the TDL’s only a week ago on exactly the same system and decided that they sounded a lot better when I had the first pair..lol He simply couldn’t believe they were the same speakers.. its amazing. When we shared a house back in the uni days, we had a huge Edwardian front room with just our stereo equipment in, they had loads of air.. right from the start so this is why we were so stunned at the beginning when we first hooked them up, and also why they conjure up so much nostalgia now.
Anyway I have done a rough pic of the before and after layout.
Before
After
Yes I agree and I did have problems with the placement of furniture rather than the layout of the room
Yep I have experimented with my TDL’s and came to the same conclusion they improve vastly when you give them as much air as possible.
BTW you will understand more about my TDL story if you look at this thread :
TDL upgrade
Yes now I totally agree, and I also encourage people ..who can ( I’m lucky that I’m single and have a detached house) experiment with placement and surroundings, before they either , ditch the speakers for something else or attempt to upgrade them. I guess its like this, even a supermodel can be made to look ugly if photographed into the wrong light - angle – background etc, by simply changing the environment and placement I am convinced you can improve the quality immensely, and I don’t think I’m exaggerating , for me that has been the result..
Please see attached pics
That a 20 year old pair of , (let’s face it) entry level priced floor stand speakers, can sound so good !. I was so shocked I asked a friend of mine who introduced me to better quality sound if he would pop around and take a listen to the new setup. When he did he didn’t believe me that I had simply moved things around, we had discussed a quite expensive upgrade for the TDL’s when I bought them off eBay , so he automatically assumed I had done the upgrade ,even though we had both sat and auditioned the TDL’s only a week ago on exactly the same system and decided that they sounded a lot better when I had the first pair..lol He simply couldn’t believe they were the same speakers.. its amazing. When we shared a house back in the uni days, we had a huge Edwardian front room with just our stereo equipment in, they had loads of air.. right from the start so this is why we were so stunned at the beginning when we first hooked them up, and also why they conjure up so much nostalgia now.
Anyway I have done a rough pic of the before and after layout.
Before
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
After
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yes I agree and I did have problems with the placement of furniture rather than the layout of the room
Yep I have experimented with my TDL’s and came to the same conclusion they improve vastly when you give them as much air as possible.
By moving things around and giving the speakers more air has totally changed the dynamics of the sound from my speakers, I know it’s hard to believe but you have to have gone through all the stages I did to try and get the best sound from my system to understand the changes.
I just looked at the space I had and basically gave the speakers as much air as I could, also another note about placement, I moved my lazzee boy away from the rear wall , only by 10 -12 inches, the sound stage opened by 100%, incredible to be honest .. and I had the same song on in a loop all the time I was moving and placing things.
I’ll be honest, I have never really been that impressed by the 602’s but then again its back to taste – what they are driven by – type of music - etc, they just never seem to fit in with my setup or my pre defined idea of what a particular song should sound like.
BTW you will understand more about my TDL story if you look at this thread :
TDL upgrade
Yes now I totally agree, and I also encourage people ..who can ( I’m lucky that I’m single and have a detached house) experiment with placement and surroundings, before they either , ditch the speakers for something else or attempt to upgrade them. I guess its like this, even a supermodel can be made to look ugly if photographed into the wrong light - angle – background etc, by simply changing the environment and placement I am convinced you can improve the quality immensely, and I don’t think I’m exaggerating , for me that has been the result..
I should have recorded a sound graph of the before and after the replacement , but I hadn’t got that deep into the problem by then, also last night I tried and I’m having trouble with the mike I have.. I can sort that with a bit of time later.
Please see attached pics
Damn right it’s not.. lol thanks for the reply Steve..
Given that my JBL were already bass heavy speakers, I think that might be part of it. I've not heard the TDL, but they seem pretty substantial, so I would guess they have pretty strong bass to begin with.
This is typically when the problem occurs. When a speaker with already dominant bass is place near a boundary wall, and the bass is re-enforced even more.
In my case, with the JBL, as I've said, the reflected bass totally screwed up the midrange.
Glad you found a way to improve things.
Do I understand correctly, that the speakers now have 2 feet behind them?
Steve/bluewizard
This is typically when the problem occurs. When a speaker with already dominant bass is place near a boundary wall, and the bass is re-enforced even more.
In my case, with the JBL, as I've said, the reflected bass totally screwed up the midrange.
Glad you found a way to improve things.
Do I understand correctly, that the speakers now have 2 feet behind them?
Steve/bluewizard
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