I'm looking for suggestions as to the suitability of using the Fostex FW305 woofer for my application. See link:
Approx 12" Woofers: Madisound Speaker Store
I have two existing 3.1 cubic foot (net) sealed subwoofers, with 12" drivers in them. I'd like to find a suitable 12" that would fit the box, and that can be crossed over at 900/1000 hz to a horn midrange and horn tweeter. The box is 15.5" wide, so other slightly larger sizes might work.
The Fostex looks like a decent candidate, plus I can stop in at Madisound to pick it up in person.
Comments are appreciated. Thank you!
Approx 12" Woofers: Madisound Speaker Store
I have two existing 3.1 cubic foot (net) sealed subwoofers, with 12" drivers in them. I'd like to find a suitable 12" that would fit the box, and that can be crossed over at 900/1000 hz to a horn midrange and horn tweeter. The box is 15.5" wide, so other slightly larger sizes might work.
The Fostex looks like a decent candidate, plus I can stop in at Madisound to pick it up in person.
Comments are appreciated. Thank you!
Hello,
I'm interrested by using FW305 too.
To help you and make some simulations there is a french site Calculs d'une enceinte bass-reflex, 1/8 (sorry it's in french but don't hesitate to ask me)
Like you I plan a project arround 2 FW305 to replace 1 Altec 416-8c I used today. For the cross over I will stay on the same then today and I will cut at 900hz. For the hight medium and hight frequencies, I currently use 2 horns JBL2550 (+4001 wood horn) and JBL2405.
My idea is to work with 2 amplifiers one Audio research D79 for bass and one SE2A3 for the 2 horns.
At the moment the best price I found is a Madisound store.
Let me knw your progress on your project
kind regards
Serge
I'm interrested by using FW305 too.
To help you and make some simulations there is a french site Calculs d'une enceinte bass-reflex, 1/8 (sorry it's in french but don't hesitate to ask me)
Like you I plan a project arround 2 FW305 to replace 1 Altec 416-8c I used today. For the cross over I will stay on the same then today and I will cut at 900hz. For the hight medium and hight frequencies, I currently use 2 horns JBL2550 (+4001 wood horn) and JBL2405.
My idea is to work with 2 amplifiers one Audio research D79 for bass and one SE2A3 for the 2 horns.
At the moment the best price I found is a Madisound store.
Let me knw your progress on your project
kind regards
Serge
Good choice for you box, seems to work well in a BR box near 3 cubic feet accorded at 36Hz F3=40Hz.
95dB sensitivity 😉
95dB sensitivity 😉
You should also consider the excellent Acoustic Elegance drivers made in Green Bay WI. The TD12S looks like the best fit in the box (the 15's are too wide). 12x the power rating, 3x the Xmax, probably lower and no doubt much more linear Le/Le(x) and an almost identical native response in the same (empty) box in sims for very similar money.
Used by Wayne Parnham in his 3Pi.
Here are some measurements of the TD12M and the 15X.
The 12M is more of a midrange and has a pleated surround, unlike the large foam unit on the 12S. The 15X uses a similar surround to the 15S/12S so extrapolate between the two. All the AE drivers with H/S/X suffixes use the same surround, cone, motor etc, just different coils.
Note: I have 12 AE drivers (15S, 15X, 10M) so am somewhat of a fanboy, and don't particularly like Fostex stuff.
Attachment is sims in Unibox in same 87L net unstuffed box at rated power.
Attachments
Fostex FW305 woofer
Thanks to the posters...interesting comments. InRank...that post of your is very close to the overall size and concept I'm aiming for.
Brett: Regarding AE speakers, I can see why you are really excited about these speakers. I have lusted for 4 years over the various designs made by John up in Green Bay. I have visited John in person twice at his shop. He was very accomodating, very knowledgable, and had an incredible array of drivers of very high quality. My first visit to his shop was when he had built the first 10 samples of the 18" dipole woofer.
That being said, I have gotten to the point on several occasions where I have been ready to pull the trigger on the purchase of TD15m, TD6, TD 18, etc. When I am ready to buy, I have not been able to get ahold of anyone. When he had the lady working there, I went weeks without hearing anything back.
John eventually returned my emails, and gave great advice about alternate designs, which set me out on another path, trying to get opinions on the suitability of those designs. About two years ago, I even sent John a check to pay him to answer a couple of specific questions so I could lock down a design, which I knew that he could build for me with his in-house CNC machine. But, his employee did not even mention to him that I sent the check. I talked to John in person after that, but he has been just consumed/plagued by various problems of supply, employees, trying to be a one man show, etc.
I really feel for him. I'd like to buy from him. I think your suggestion for the TD-12S is right on the money. I just have no confidence in the overall situation. Hence the question about the Fostex, which I can drive over and pick up in an hour from Madisound.
I'm putting this stuff out here on the forum not to complain about AE Speakers, but to try to think about ways that we could help John get control of some of the difficulties plaguing him. Perhaps there is someone out there who could partner up with him and make a go of it. Personally, I think his biggest problem is this: he is making a superior product at a very cheap price, and it is being aimed at a market (DIY) that is famous for not wanting to pay retail. Frankly, I think his stuff blows away the much more expensive drivers I see from other companies. Maybe he should just have the rest of his drivers crafted in China like most other companies, and focus on marketing and delivering the products.
Perhaps he could team up with Madisound? They are only a couple hours away from each other.
Homebuilder
Thanks to the posters...interesting comments. InRank...that post of your is very close to the overall size and concept I'm aiming for.
Brett: Regarding AE speakers, I can see why you are really excited about these speakers. I have lusted for 4 years over the various designs made by John up in Green Bay. I have visited John in person twice at his shop. He was very accomodating, very knowledgable, and had an incredible array of drivers of very high quality. My first visit to his shop was when he had built the first 10 samples of the 18" dipole woofer.
That being said, I have gotten to the point on several occasions where I have been ready to pull the trigger on the purchase of TD15m, TD6, TD 18, etc. When I am ready to buy, I have not been able to get ahold of anyone. When he had the lady working there, I went weeks without hearing anything back.
John eventually returned my emails, and gave great advice about alternate designs, which set me out on another path, trying to get opinions on the suitability of those designs. About two years ago, I even sent John a check to pay him to answer a couple of specific questions so I could lock down a design, which I knew that he could build for me with his in-house CNC machine. But, his employee did not even mention to him that I sent the check. I talked to John in person after that, but he has been just consumed/plagued by various problems of supply, employees, trying to be a one man show, etc.
I really feel for him. I'd like to buy from him. I think your suggestion for the TD-12S is right on the money. I just have no confidence in the overall situation. Hence the question about the Fostex, which I can drive over and pick up in an hour from Madisound.
I'm putting this stuff out here on the forum not to complain about AE Speakers, but to try to think about ways that we could help John get control of some of the difficulties plaguing him. Perhaps there is someone out there who could partner up with him and make a go of it. Personally, I think his biggest problem is this: he is making a superior product at a very cheap price, and it is being aimed at a market (DIY) that is famous for not wanting to pay retail. Frankly, I think his stuff blows away the much more expensive drivers I see from other companies. Maybe he should just have the rest of his drivers crafted in China like most other companies, and focus on marketing and delivering the products.
Perhaps he could team up with Madisound? They are only a couple hours away from each other.
Homebuilder
Hi,
FWIW I'd tune them a little lower than 36Hz, 31Hz in a 87L box.
This frequency removes the mild group delay peak around 40Hz
for 36Hz down to a plateau below 30Hz. It gives a more rounded
roll-off but is a minor tweak, less upper bass, a little more @30Hz.
-3dB is a little worse, but -6dB is slightly better, -10dB better.
Baffle step probably will make them sound lean, consider a line
level BSC circuit, see : Baffle Step Compensation
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the only driver I could find that seems to suit is in a whole different price ballpark, 7mm xmax
: MCM Audio Select 12'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 350W RMS | 55-2982 (552982) | MCM Audio Select
Attached fostex in green, MCM is red (not bad for $50), in your boxes :
FWIW I'd tune them a little lower than 36Hz, 31Hz in a 87L box.
This frequency removes the mild group delay peak around 40Hz
for 36Hz down to a plateau below 30Hz. It gives a more rounded
roll-off but is a minor tweak, less upper bass, a little more @30Hz.
-3dB is a little worse, but -6dB is slightly better, -10dB better.
Baffle step probably will make them sound lean, consider a line
level BSC circuit, see : Baffle Step Compensation
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the only driver I could find that seems to suit is in a whole different price ballpark, 7mm xmax
: MCM Audio Select 12'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 350W RMS | 55-2982 (552982) | MCM Audio Select
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Attached fostex in green, MCM is red (not bad for $50), in your boxes :
Attachments
Last edited:
MCM suggestion for 3.1 cf box
Sreten: Thank you for that detailed suggestion. That MCM woofer looks like a very strong performer, and is a real bargain at 1/4th the cost of the Fostex. Do you (or anyone else) have positive any experience with the MCM brand? That particular cast basket looks like a rather common item used by several other manufacturers, which is probably a good thing.
At that price, I could actually sell the existing mint condition NHT 1259 woofers for more than the cost of the MCM units. (The NHT won't play anywhere near high enough to crossover to the midrange horn)
Thanks again!
Homebuilder
Sreten: Thank you for that detailed suggestion. That MCM woofer looks like a very strong performer, and is a real bargain at 1/4th the cost of the Fostex. Do you (or anyone else) have positive any experience with the MCM brand? That particular cast basket looks like a rather common item used by several other manufacturers, which is probably a good thing.
At that price, I could actually sell the existing mint condition NHT 1259 woofers for more than the cost of the MCM units. (The NHT won't play anywhere near high enough to crossover to the midrange horn)
Thanks again!
Homebuilder
Hi,
A lot of good things have been said about this driver :
MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select
What can I say about a driver 1/5 of the price of the Fostex ?
You have to be careful about the specifications, but everything
on the data sheet seems fair enough*, something like pair
matching though is impossible to say. The impedance is
nice and smooth, hiccups here indicate cone problems,
and the response roll off seems nice and controlled.
The bass player reviewing them says the tone is smooth and
thick, which agrees with the response shown. On paper its
hard to see anything wrong with them. Probably though
there is nothing flash in the motor design and distortion
won't be as low as a quality hi-fi unit. That might also
be true of the Fostex, which seems expensive for what
it is, and Fostex aren't known for advanced motors.
My worry is it looks too good ..... is it really that ideal ? .....
Its certainly very good value.
rgds, sreten.
* Except the scaling on the frequency response graph.
Something is up here, I don't beleive they'll hit 100dB+.
A lot of good things have been said about this driver :
MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select
What can I say about a driver 1/5 of the price of the Fostex ?
You have to be careful about the specifications, but everything
on the data sheet seems fair enough*, something like pair
matching though is impossible to say. The impedance is
nice and smooth, hiccups here indicate cone problems,
and the response roll off seems nice and controlled.
The bass player reviewing them says the tone is smooth and
thick, which agrees with the response shown. On paper its
hard to see anything wrong with them. Probably though
there is nothing flash in the motor design and distortion
won't be as low as a quality hi-fi unit. That might also
be true of the Fostex, which seems expensive for what
it is, and Fostex aren't known for advanced motors.
My worry is it looks too good ..... is it really that ideal ? .....
Its certainly very good value.
rgds, sreten.
* Except the scaling on the frequency response graph.
Something is up here, I don't beleive they'll hit 100dB+.
Last edited:
[
My worry is it looks too good ..... is it really that ideal ? .....
Its certainly very good value.
Sorry if this is OT. How would you rate this MCM against Peerless SLS12 and/or Visaton W300? Specifically for an OB use, 2 per side?
My worry is it looks too good ..... is it really that ideal ? .....
Its certainly very good value.
Sorry if this is OT. How would you rate this MCM against Peerless SLS12 and/or Visaton W300? Specifically for an OB use, 2 per side?
homebuilder ... Hi from the Dells.
Did you consider the SB Acoustics 12" driver from madisound? ... or is the sensitivity rating too low for your use? A few builds posted here and there are pretty happy with them.
(OT ..homebuilder .... you in the trade?)
Did you consider the SB Acoustics 12" driver from madisound? ... or is the sensitivity rating too low for your use? A few builds posted here and there are pretty happy with them.
(OT ..homebuilder .... you in the trade?)
Foster
Puppet: I like that SB driver, but it will not play up to my crossover point of around 900 to 1000 hz. Unless there is one I am not aware of. Those look like great speakers; first rate quality.
On your other question, I restored Victorian homes for many years as a sideline business. Should be called Home Rebuilder.
Was in the Dells a couple weeks ago for a trade show...good time!
Puppet: I like that SB driver, but it will not play up to my crossover point of around 900 to 1000 hz. Unless there is one I am not aware of. Those look like great speakers; first rate quality.
On your other question, I restored Victorian homes for many years as a sideline business. Should be called Home Rebuilder.
Was in the Dells a couple weeks ago for a trade show...good time!
Question for Sreten on MCM woofer
Sreten: On the graphs you attached showing the MCM woofer versus the Fostex, the picture shows a vent. The individual boxes are not active when I click on them to get details about the vent. If that is a vent that is required would you mind telling me the size and length? In general, I have always preferred the sound of sealed woofers, but in this case that woofer has to match up to efficient compression drivers mid and treble. (JBL)
Thanks again!
Homebuilder
Sreten: On the graphs you attached showing the MCM woofer versus the Fostex, the picture shows a vent. The individual boxes are not active when I click on them to get details about the vent. If that is a vent that is required would you mind telling me the size and length? In general, I have always preferred the sound of sealed woofers, but in this case that woofer has to match up to efficient compression drivers mid and treble. (JBL)
Thanks again!
Homebuilder
Hi,
OB ? It would be probably decent enough but your opening
a huge can of worms as all them would need active EQ.
FWIW IMO the best drivers for open baffle have stupidly
large Vas (for boxes) but OB it does not matter, and
high Qts - again very bad for boxes.
I don't know the application and lots of other issues so
I can't say whether it suits or doesn't your OB situation.
rgds, sreten.
Fostex woofer vs Visaton vs MCM
Responding to the poster who suggested the Visaton...it is much more costly than the alternative suggested by Sreten. However, while looking at E-Speakers site for the Visaton, I saw the TIW300, which looks like an incredible woofer, albeit very costly. This brings up a question I'd like to have someone answer who is more knowledgable:
On the graph for that TIW300, it show a rising response starting about 1100 hz, and rising fairly sharply up to 1500 hz. If your intended crossover point was at 900 or 1000, could that be dealt with in the crossover?
If I recall, one of the SB 12" woofers had a similar situation as the Visaton. If usable, the SB would also be a great choice; but again a lot more money than the MCM which seems like a strong performer.
Homebuilder
Responding to the poster who suggested the Visaton...it is much more costly than the alternative suggested by Sreten. However, while looking at E-Speakers site for the Visaton, I saw the TIW300, which looks like an incredible woofer, albeit very costly. This brings up a question I'd like to have someone answer who is more knowledgable:
On the graph for that TIW300, it show a rising response starting about 1100 hz, and rising fairly sharply up to 1500 hz. If your intended crossover point was at 900 or 1000, could that be dealt with in the crossover?
If I recall, one of the SB 12" woofers had a similar situation as the Visaton. If usable, the SB would also be a great choice; but again a lot more money than the MCM which seems like a strong performer.
Homebuilder
It was Visaton W300 mentioned - that is more in the price bracket of the MCM if you factor in the shipping to Europe... The MCM seems much better made though, but ICBW. The FR graph does look a little strange with the 100 dB level ?
As a suggestion, maybe you should check the Beyma 12BR70?
MCM Select Woofers
This is a situation where I had to decide if it is appropriate to share my MCM Select experiences.
I have purchased the 21", two different 18" versions (cast and pressed frame) and two of the 8" versions, again cast and pressed frames.
The published specifications vs price are excellent. The quality appearance of ALL the above were as good as any, and better than most in the market place. The cast 21", 18" & 8" are just plain gorgeous!
However, not one of the above drivers were remotely close to their published QE and QTS specification. FS and QM were within a reasonable tolerance. Also, with the QE and QT being way higher than specified, the true efficiencies are WAY below advertised. Over 10 db on the 21"!!!! So, suspect under charged or defective magnet materials. The only one of the group, the pressed frame 18" could be used as a traditional woofer in a large stuffed seal box. It's true free air efficiency is around 90 db, no where near the 100 advertised. But the FS and VAS were such that you can work with it to obtain a flat, ripple free box response.
In fact all but pressed frame 18" had QE's and correspondingly QT values so high there was NO WAY to get them to provide a flat response with any enclosure format. Even IB or OB! I used both the PE WT3 and manual measurement methods. Both methods yielded the same outcome. I even took one of the 8" models and mounted it in what should have been a proper sized seal box just to verify measurements. The box measurements dove tailed with traditional T/S predictions and validated my free air measurements. (free air fs vs calculated closed box fs)
Now there is a possibility I just had a stretch of bad luck. And the drivers I received are not representative. And I have not, for obvious reasons tried the 2982, which on paper has some interesting specs. So it could be a great driver. I can't help being leery of the published specs though. Very difficult to obtain the FS - VAS - efficiency values shown. Even if you allow for the -3 db efficiency tolerance shown on the spec page. SO.....
Caveat emptor!!
This is a situation where I had to decide if it is appropriate to share my MCM Select experiences.
I have purchased the 21", two different 18" versions (cast and pressed frame) and two of the 8" versions, again cast and pressed frames.
The published specifications vs price are excellent. The quality appearance of ALL the above were as good as any, and better than most in the market place. The cast 21", 18" & 8" are just plain gorgeous!
However, not one of the above drivers were remotely close to their published QE and QTS specification. FS and QM were within a reasonable tolerance. Also, with the QE and QT being way higher than specified, the true efficiencies are WAY below advertised. Over 10 db on the 21"!!!! So, suspect under charged or defective magnet materials. The only one of the group, the pressed frame 18" could be used as a traditional woofer in a large stuffed seal box. It's true free air efficiency is around 90 db, no where near the 100 advertised. But the FS and VAS were such that you can work with it to obtain a flat, ripple free box response.
In fact all but pressed frame 18" had QE's and correspondingly QT values so high there was NO WAY to get them to provide a flat response with any enclosure format. Even IB or OB! I used both the PE WT3 and manual measurement methods. Both methods yielded the same outcome. I even took one of the 8" models and mounted it in what should have been a proper sized seal box just to verify measurements. The box measurements dove tailed with traditional T/S predictions and validated my free air measurements. (free air fs vs calculated closed box fs)
Now there is a possibility I just had a stretch of bad luck. And the drivers I received are not representative. And I have not, for obvious reasons tried the 2982, which on paper has some interesting specs. So it could be a great driver. I can't help being leery of the published specs though. Very difficult to obtain the FS - VAS - efficiency values shown. Even if you allow for the -3 db efficiency tolerance shown on the spec page. SO.....
Caveat emptor!!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.