I have a pair of Fountek NEO CD-1 ribbon tweeters. I can't find any crossover design which uses them, and not being skilled in crossover design I don't know what to do with them. All I know is that they are supposed to cross over at 3.5K or above and preferably 18db Xover.
Would this drop into a design for a 19mm tweeter, for instance? They are 5 ohm and 90bd sensitive, so surely usable. Hopefully in a 2-way crossed over to something like a 135mm or 150mm mid-bass.
Any suggestions?
Would this drop into a design for a 19mm tweeter, for instance? They are 5 ohm and 90bd sensitive, so surely usable. Hopefully in a 2-way crossed over to something like a 135mm or 150mm mid-bass.
Any suggestions?
Here's one (and a well-known one at that 😉 ) https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/speedster
If you are somewhat picky at all, there i no such thing as a "drop in" XO... The XO linked to above will certainly work except for perhaps one aspect - the sensitivity match with the bass driver - and its XO.... One can see in that XO that is uses 2 resistors - one is at least for damping - probably both, the one close to the driver will also increase its impedance seen by the X-over.
Re. drop in for a dome - probably not - the usual XOs for a dome is between 1,5 and 2,5 kHz. The component values in a crossover is dependent on the driver impedance.
I suggest you dig in to some XO reading and use an XO calculator program to do you own design and post it here for discussion.
A XO in your case is a two thing matter - not only the one for the tweeter - they must match in order to get balanced sound.
E.g.: https://www.v-cap.com/speaker-crossover-calculator.php (3rd order) + you will probably need to attenuate the Fountec i.e. use the L-PAD calculator furthest down on the page - this depends on the used bass.
Good luck 🙂
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Re. drop in for a dome - probably not - the usual XOs for a dome is between 1,5 and 2,5 kHz. The component values in a crossover is dependent on the driver impedance.
I suggest you dig in to some XO reading and use an XO calculator program to do you own design and post it here for discussion.
A XO in your case is a two thing matter - not only the one for the tweeter - they must match in order to get balanced sound.
E.g.: https://www.v-cap.com/speaker-crossover-calculator.php (3rd order) + you will probably need to attenuate the Fountec i.e. use the L-PAD calculator furthest down on the page - this depends on the used bass.
Good luck 🙂
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Thanks! I now have to decide if this is a speaker I want! Rather small mid-bass though apparently the bass is there. But at least it's a project that would work.
Paul Kittinger used them in a couple of his three way MLTL tower speakers. No open source info but if you email Paul then he is very accommodating with his details.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Gallery/Gallery.html
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Gallery/Gallery.html
Not only does this project "work", these little speakers rock! I built two pairs and have contemplated building the floor stander TMM version. Almost too much bass, the TB mid/woof moves an incredible amount of air for a 4" driver. Use a flared port to help reduce the port noise at higher volume.
I third the Speedsters. Sub bass could use some help, so either a sub or the TMM version is what I recommend. Flared ports and enclosure changes do little to help the THD and IMD of a 4” playing 40-3300hz. I like mine best in extreme near field. It’s a little otherworldly when it’s all set up just right, in no small part to the ribbon. It’s very fast when resolving those upper frequencies. the waveguide seems to help as well, since it spreads better than some of the flat AMT and planar designs that I’ve used.
The impedance of most ribbons have seem is pretty close to flat, so a near textbook XO should be close. Top of the mid is a different issue.
dave
dave
The mid-bass is indeed the issue, as well as the crossover point. Looks like the xover needs to be around 3.5K. That points to something like a LS3/5A clone or equivalent 2-way. I have a pair of tall cabinets 16litres looking for a build and I want to see if a 150mm mid-bass would work in that volume. I also have a pair of 10 litre cabinets. And by 150mm I also mean 135mm units with narrow metal surrounds like the B110 types, which are in effect 150mm because the SD is 80 to 95.
So as we know there are plenty of crossover designs for 150/135mm mid-bass units. I already have some pairs of Wharfedale Program 30D-6 speakers I can play with and a pair of Audax HD 13B 25, though no idea what crossovers to use with those - are they like anything else e.g. a B110? I could try the KEF crossovers with them. Then there's the Monacor SPH130 and SPH135. Maybe the Aurum Cantus AC130F. Then there's the SB units like the SB15MRC, though those can cross over further down. Ideally needs a cone with a flat response and very little nasty breakup higher up.
So working assumption with these NEO ribbons is to drop them into something in place of a 19mm tweeter crossing over at 3.5K. Does that sound as if it could work?
So as we know there are plenty of crossover designs for 150/135mm mid-bass units. I already have some pairs of Wharfedale Program 30D-6 speakers I can play with and a pair of Audax HD 13B 25, though no idea what crossovers to use with those - are they like anything else e.g. a B110? I could try the KEF crossovers with them. Then there's the Monacor SPH130 and SPH135. Maybe the Aurum Cantus AC130F. Then there's the SB units like the SB15MRC, though those can cross over further down. Ideally needs a cone with a flat response and very little nasty breakup higher up.
So working assumption with these NEO ribbons is to drop them into something in place of a 19mm tweeter crossing over at 3.5K. Does that sound as if it could work?
Yeah it just won’t disperse the same. Ribbons, Planars, AMTs and other exotics tend to have great horizontal dispersion, but almost no vertical. It’s why I like the 1.0 up close while a lot of larger designs prefer the Neocd 3.0 or 2.X models. I like these better than most of the domes I’ve heard in my life, but I imagine they’re just poorly made and implemented commercial designs and I could be convinced by one of these intermediately priced SB Acoustics or SEAS domes to be honest.
I do listen nearfield, so I think I can cope with the vertical dispersion of ribbons.
I hooked up the NEO CD1s to the crossover of my Wharfedale Program 30D-6 speakers and they sound superb - miles better than the 19mm tweeters that are in the Programs. So I want these in my setup! Question now is how. The Programs have a stated xover point of 2.3K, so I only listened at lowish volumes. I need a crossover of 3.5K to be safe. So building the Speedsters is looking like one good way to do it. That's a given. One of the LS3/5A type speakers with a 3.5K xover is something I'd like to explore.
I hooked up the NEO CD1s to the crossover of my Wharfedale Program 30D-6 speakers and they sound superb - miles better than the 19mm tweeters that are in the Programs. So I want these in my setup! Question now is how. The Programs have a stated xover point of 2.3K, so I only listened at lowish volumes. I need a crossover of 3.5K to be safe. So building the Speedsters is looking like one good way to do it. That's a given. One of the LS3/5A type speakers with a 3.5K xover is something I'd like to explore.
If I were to take another stab at the Speedsters, instead of making them 2.5-ways I'd consider using the 5" or 6" equivalent midwoofer. Both have clean frequency responses across a ridiculous 50-5000hz at least. They also make a stunning 8" I've considered building a bass box for. As prices increase across the board, I've lost a sense of value and have spent my money on more practical pursuits. The 8" used to be about a hundred dollars four years ago.
http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w5-1685
http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w6-1721
http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w8-1722b OR http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w8-2096b
Another alternative to the Speedsters: https://sites.google.com/view/sehlin-sound-solutions/rhodium
http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w5-1685
http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w6-1721
http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w8-1722b OR http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w8-2096b
Another alternative to the Speedsters: https://sites.google.com/view/sehlin-sound-solutions/rhodium
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D1sco - you've made me wonder if the Speedster xover could be used with the Tangband W5 - the slightly larger brother. Frequency responses are very similar.
This link may help.. CD3 used I think..
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/ipl-acoustics-m3tlm-crossover-query.383461/
I have IPL TL soeakers
A very special transparent signature from these ribbons .. some recordings I have where I thought siblance on voices was problematic render fine from the ribbons . I guess a lot of what I was hearing was dome tweeters cracking up! I could not go back.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/ipl-acoustics-m3tlm-crossover-query.383461/
I have IPL TL soeakers
A very special transparent signature from these ribbons .. some recordings I have where I thought siblance on voices was problematic render fine from the ribbons . I guess a lot of what I was hearing was dome tweeters cracking up! I could not go back.
The 5" may not be "Drop-in perfect" but you can tell they're built for the same thing. I'd try it with a decent mic setup and some VCAD simulations if possible. The baffle will be no small task, but my guess is off-axis won't suffer with the 5" replacement.
I don't have a lot to do today. Maybe I'll just throw up a sim and see what it looks like.
I don't have a lot to do today. Maybe I'll just throw up a sim and see what it looks like.
D1sco. A sim would be appreciated, thanks. I'm going to build one or the other, W4 or W5. All the buzz is about the W4 1720 - that seems to get all the praise. The Napoleons and The Neutrino are 2 more builds with it, plus the Rhodium mentioned. Maybe it's the case that the midband and integration with the ribbon are just superior to the W5. Anyone know?
There's almost nothing on the W5 except a design here: http://tb-speaker.com/products/sug2-22
There's almost nothing on the W5 except a design here: http://tb-speaker.com/products/sug2-22
So far-- A reasonable bass response will take up to double the enclosure size. It will still peak at ~50W, but will go 5-10hz deeper. I'm frankly amazed at how well it worked. Simple plug and play, actually.
Some funkiness occured with the impedance. I solved this by adding a resistor atop the first order inductor of the woofer's third order filter. Otherwise the midrange is a gigantic soup bowl. The optimized version is pretty low sensitivity-- I imagine that's a choice most people would prefer making in EQ, but the more standard crossover does tend somewhat bright for some tastes otherwise.
--I am absolutely not a crossover designer and someone who is may say my designs will explode or something and you should take their word over mine.
VCAD's preference score adjustment:
Some funkiness occured with the impedance. I solved this by adding a resistor atop the first order inductor of the woofer's third order filter. Otherwise the midrange is a gigantic soup bowl. The optimized version is pretty low sensitivity-- I imagine that's a choice most people would prefer making in EQ, but the more standard crossover does tend somewhat bright for some tastes otherwise.
--I am absolutely not a crossover designer and someone who is may say my designs will explode or something and you should take their word over mine.
VCAD's preference score adjustment:
Thanks - interesting. I'm absolutely not a crossover designer, no idea beyond the basics. Is the W4 1720 still the preferred choice or could the W5 1685 be a contender?
Just build the Speedsters as designed unless you feel comfortable diving into the unknown. I literally whipped this up in an hour. There's no way to know until someone does it. I still have the Speedsters two feet from each ear, not the larger version.
EDIT: For the record, this is the box.
EDIT: For the record, this is the box.