I'm looking to build an efficient speaker to be powered by my Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 Amp. Several weeks ago, I posted this on Reddit: (https://www.reddit.com/r/diysound/comments/584r1k/designing_a_crossover_for_a_conical_hornloaded/), where I got some fantastic advice. Unfortunately, the one thing I failed to check was the size - what I had designed would in no way fit in my living room.
SO - back to the drawing board. It seemed that another logical option might be looking at a quality full-range driver in a larger cab, perhaps horn loaded or in a transmission line. I stumbled across the Tang Band W8-1808, which appears to be a fantastic driver (and by most reviews, is), well suited for a larger bass-reflex or t-line enclosure. I decided to attempt a transmission line design.
I've designed the cabinet using Martin King's alignment tables (unfortunately it appears the MathCAD program is no longer available for modelling, so I couldn't do much actual testing). Here are the specs:
Tuned to 40hz.
.33333 Taper along the transmission line. Approximately 66.8" tline length Cabinet volume: 3.174 Ft3
Here is a link to renderings and drawings of the speaker cabinets.
TB W8-1808 Speaker Design - Album on Imgur
I'm looking for feedback on the design, as well as any advice one might offer on tuning a transmission line OR if anyone has any impressions of the TB-W808. Thanks!
SO - back to the drawing board. It seemed that another logical option might be looking at a quality full-range driver in a larger cab, perhaps horn loaded or in a transmission line. I stumbled across the Tang Band W8-1808, which appears to be a fantastic driver (and by most reviews, is), well suited for a larger bass-reflex or t-line enclosure. I decided to attempt a transmission line design.
I've designed the cabinet using Martin King's alignment tables (unfortunately it appears the MathCAD program is no longer available for modelling, so I couldn't do much actual testing). Here are the specs:
Tuned to 40hz.
.33333 Taper along the transmission line. Approximately 66.8" tline length Cabinet volume: 3.174 Ft3
Here is a link to renderings and drawings of the speaker cabinets.
TB W8-1808 Speaker Design - Album on Imgur
I'm looking for feedback on the design, as well as any advice one might offer on tuning a transmission line OR if anyone has any impressions of the TB-W808. Thanks!
Use Leonard Audio Transmission Line program for modeling. It is based on Martin Kings work.
Leonard Audio | Audio Engineering Resources
Also, check out the Yahoo Quarter-wave discussion group. You can find the link on Mrtin Kings webpage.
Johan-Kr
Leonard Audio | Audio Engineering Resources
Also, check out the Yahoo Quarter-wave discussion group. You can find the link on Mrtin Kings webpage.
Johan-Kr
Consider contacting Bob Brines who has designs for the T-B W8-1772 as mentioned on his web-site and he has also worked with the W8-1808 as reported below:
Tang Band 1808 in MLTL
Bob's site is:
http://brinesacoustics.com/
He offers design plans and can supply flat pack raw cabinets if you wish. Worth your while to discuss your needs with Bob.
Tang Band 1808 in MLTL
Bob's site is:
http://brinesacoustics.com/
He offers design plans and can supply flat pack raw cabinets if you wish. Worth your while to discuss your needs with Bob.
1. Look at some of the FAST designs on this website i.e. use a full ranger in a compact enclosure from about 150 - 200 Hz, .. complemented by a powered subwoofer below that - way smaller and easier to get right than a legit rear loaded horn
FWIW, full range MLTLs are not my cup of tea (apart from one that I heard with the Jordan JX92 many years ago) - by the time you add baffle step compensaton to bring the bass in balance, the sound always sounds a bit constrained (to me). Much better to let the full range driver work best within it's natural range
2. Another alternative - open baffle variants of the above concept eg
Tang Band 1808s over Alpha H frames
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/
FWIW, full range MLTLs are not my cup of tea (apart from one that I heard with the Jordan JX92 many years ago) - by the time you add baffle step compensaton to bring the bass in balance, the sound always sounds a bit constrained (to me). Much better to let the full range driver work best within it's natural range
2. Another alternative - open baffle variants of the above concept eg
Tang Band 1808s over Alpha H frames
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/
Thank you for all the suggestions - some of those links I had not come across in my research, incidentally, so they're proven to be helpful in my search.
While I have looked at a few of the FAST and open baffle concepts, I am really aiming for simplicity here, even if it is at the slight expense of volume/sound. This will not be the be all / end all of speakers, and because of specific room constraints the speakers have to remain somewhat narrow - 11" wide, preferably small if possible (probably not possible). The depth can be stretched as can the height, but I'm not looking to add anything into mys system aside from a more efficient speaker than I'm currently driving with my 2A3 tube amp. If I find it absolutely necessary in the future I will add in a separate powered sub, but for now I like to listen to vinyl at pretty reasonable levels in an otherwise pretty small living room. I don't have home theater hooked up to this system, so it's exclusively for music.
Mostly I'm looking for simple, even if it is at the expense of some clarity. And I want some really good looking speakers - I'm an architect, and honestly the look matters about as much as the sound, which shifts my criteria a bit.
I have also modeled this as a bass reflex in winISD and can get a pretty reasonable f3 (38Hz) with a 110L cab, a sentiment and design I've heard reflected elsewhere. In your opinion, what would be the advantages of doing something like a tapered TL or MLTL vs a bass reflex for a driver like this?
While I have looked at a few of the FAST and open baffle concepts, I am really aiming for simplicity here, even if it is at the slight expense of volume/sound. This will not be the be all / end all of speakers, and because of specific room constraints the speakers have to remain somewhat narrow - 11" wide, preferably small if possible (probably not possible). The depth can be stretched as can the height, but I'm not looking to add anything into mys system aside from a more efficient speaker than I'm currently driving with my 2A3 tube amp. If I find it absolutely necessary in the future I will add in a separate powered sub, but for now I like to listen to vinyl at pretty reasonable levels in an otherwise pretty small living room. I don't have home theater hooked up to this system, so it's exclusively for music.
Mostly I'm looking for simple, even if it is at the expense of some clarity. And I want some really good looking speakers - I'm an architect, and honestly the look matters about as much as the sound, which shifts my criteria a bit.
I have also modeled this as a bass reflex in winISD and can get a pretty reasonable f3 (38Hz) with a 110L cab, a sentiment and design I've heard reflected elsewhere. In your opinion, what would be the advantages of doing something like a tapered TL or MLTL vs a bass reflex for a driver like this?
In that case, a brines MLTL might work
Another option to FAST would be to design a bookshelf that at least gets down to 60-70 Hz and plan to use a sub for the octave or so beneath . Read the user reviews at Tang Band W8-1808 8" Neodymium Full Range Driver
Found an aesthetically pleasing OB solution (to me at least) http://www.pureaudioproject.com/
Another option to FAST would be to design a bookshelf that at least gets down to 60-70 Hz and plan to use a sub for the octave or so beneath . Read the user reviews at Tang Band W8-1808 8" Neodymium Full Range Driver
Found an aesthetically pleasing OB solution (to me at least) http://www.pureaudioproject.com/
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I've seen those Pure Audio Project speakers before and they are gorgeous; unfortunately, they won't fit in my living room 🙂.
The suggestion about a bookshelf paired with a sub is something I will definitely look into - I very much appreciate the suggestion!
The suggestion about a bookshelf paired with a sub is something I will definitely look into - I very much appreciate the suggestion!
Godzilla has run it sealed with a sub - Bob Brines should have a narrow cabinet
about 12" wide on this cabinet loaded with lower Q w8-1772 https://youtu.be/z1RYpD9MrV0
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
about 12" wide on this cabinet loaded with lower Q w8-1772 https://youtu.be/z1RYpD9MrV0
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
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Hi,Godzilla has run it sealed with a sub - Bob Brines should have a narrow cabinet
about 12" wide on this cabinet loaded with lower Q w8-1772 https://youtu.be/z1RYpD9MrV0
https://youtu.be/LuNOzlQAVlw
1808 has a higher Qts than a 1772 . FWIW, .. I put my pair of 1772 on sale on the classifieds (not much time for DIY these days so I'm selectively liquidating my hoard). Still, I think an 1808 might be better for what you describe.
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1808 would probably work out fine in a Karlson - but don't know about making it as narrow as 11" - "maybe" - it may be a good fit for GregB's Karlsonator8 - that alignment as drawn/built tunes right at 40Hz.
MLTL provides better vent damping, so can have a larger, more efficient one plus gets the driver up to seated ear height and just as simple to build as the BR as long as it's not too unwieldy in size to safely handle.
For instance, I did a MLTL for the TB W8-2145 awhile back, so inputted the 1808's specs in its HR sim and it looks identical, though larger, taller than yours, but a smaller footprint and since it takes much less stuffing to smooth it out, will have more bass than yours and a bit 'fuller' mid-bass than the BR.
H = 142.35 cm
W x D = 1000 cm^2
driver offset from top = 49.64 cm
vent offset from top = 118.57 cm
vent = 81.07 cm^2 x 1.9 cm [baffle thickness]
all dims i.d. & approximate
damp to 'taste' 😉
GM
So here's the thing.........
You've got a cone expected to play clean upper mids and highs where are ears are most sensitive to enjoy music. But then, we want to get relatively deep satisfying bass. But in order to do so, we have to get the cone moving forward and back. You can only imagine what happens to the mids and highs as the cone is pumping in and out?
For that kind of investment, I'd certainly cross the 1808's to bass drivers 2nd order high pass at 200-250hz. I would use a bass driver with smooth response to 1khz and go first order on it to counter the baffle step loss of the 1808. Put the 1808 in a near critically damped sealed box to reduce excursion and give the acoustic roll off need for a combined third order response with the 2nd order electric. There's some great, efficient 12" pro woofers such as the Eminence Kappalight which will do bass duties very well as suggested.
Good luck however you choose and remember to have fun!
You've got a cone expected to play clean upper mids and highs where are ears are most sensitive to enjoy music. But then, we want to get relatively deep satisfying bass. But in order to do so, we have to get the cone moving forward and back. You can only imagine what happens to the mids and highs as the cone is pumping in and out?
For that kind of investment, I'd certainly cross the 1808's to bass drivers 2nd order high pass at 200-250hz. I would use a bass driver with smooth response to 1khz and go first order on it to counter the baffle step loss of the 1808. Put the 1808 in a near critically damped sealed box to reduce excursion and give the acoustic roll off need for a combined third order response with the 2nd order electric. There's some great, efficient 12" pro woofers such as the Eminence Kappalight which will do bass duties very well as suggested.
Good luck however you choose and remember to have fun!
mayhem,
you pretty much explained my current project, but I'm using the 1772 instead.
I have it in a sealed box to keep f3 a little higher and reduce excursion, xover should be around 200Hz, and another sealed sub under it for low band duties.
I should be done in about a month.
you pretty much explained my current project, but I'm using the 1772 instead.
I have it in a sealed box to keep f3 a little higher and reduce excursion, xover should be around 200Hz, and another sealed sub under it for low band duties.
I should be done in about a month.
I agree the w8-1808 works very well in a mltl cabinet. I designed a 4 foot cabinet using Martin J King's mathcad spreadsheets. The bass is so solid I did not really need a baffle step compensation circuit. I did use a variable brightness control idea I got from Trancendent Sound's diy page. There are several w8-1808 cabinet designs there too.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Mayhem -
Do you think I could integrate a woofer in a side-firing configuration if I crossed a bit lower, something around 100 Hz? Maybe using a woofer like this: https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-kappa-15lfa-15-low-frequency-driver-8-ohm--290-460
That would help keep the cabinet dimensions somewhat slim and deep.
Do you think I could integrate a woofer in a side-firing configuration if I crossed a bit lower, something around 100 Hz? Maybe using a woofer like this: https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-kappa-15lfa-15-low-frequency-driver-8-ohm--290-460
That would help keep the cabinet dimensions somewhat slim and deep.
The 12" version digs deeper in a smaller box
https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-kappalite-3012lf-neo-12-speaker-driver--290-590
Side firing would work with a 2nd or 3rd order low pass, but not 1st order as the upper response content will cause some combing and localization. Both front firing and side firing are better options than running the 1808 solo IMO.
Thanks for sharing my page zobsky! That's what it's there for. Much appreciated.
I've actually built the 1808 on OB on top of Alpha 15 H-frames.
I think the 1808 is a little bright and sounds better off axis. They sound amazing for short listening sessions but I always tend to swap them out after a few days for something warmer.
I've actually built the 1808 on OB on top of Alpha 15 H-frames.
I think the 1808 is a little bright and sounds better off axis. They sound amazing for short listening sessions but I always tend to swap them out after a few days for something warmer.
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Sorry for triple posting but I wanted to mention I've seen the 1808 used in large (I'd guess the attached box is 2 - 2.5cf) ported boxes. I recall simulating them years ago and determined about a 3cf box gave the best measured result. Everything's relative and as DIYers we can build whatever we want. I decided not to build the large 3cf box because it was very big and I was concerned the delicate looking cone and surround might not like playing too much bass.
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