Hey everyone,
New to this forum.
I'd like to get better (and nice looking!) sound in my small office room, which is about 10 square-meters big, even less when I come to think of it. I'd like to get a pair of regular sized bookshelf speakers together with a vintage Marantz receiver.
I love the look of the 22XX-series, but I can't really decide (or know) how much power I actually need. I've heard that "marantz watts" can't be compared to a modern receiver denon/onkyo watts, and that's my only reference as I've never owned vintage.
I know the 2270 is the one to go for as you can never get too much power, and things tend to sound better even on low volume with more power. However the price for the 2270 is a bit steep so I'm thinking if the 2245 will be enough. Again, I want to emphasize that I won't connect floor standing big speakers, but a set of smaller bookshelf speakers. To give you any reference, I am currently running a Marshall Woburn in this room, and I found that loud/good enough for the size of the room.
Do you think I'm set with the 2245 or would you go 2270? Or is even the 2245 too much for what I'm pairing it with? Will even a 2215 do?
Thanks for any input, completely new to vintage receiver.
Vol
New to this forum.
I'd like to get better (and nice looking!) sound in my small office room, which is about 10 square-meters big, even less when I come to think of it. I'd like to get a pair of regular sized bookshelf speakers together with a vintage Marantz receiver.
I love the look of the 22XX-series, but I can't really decide (or know) how much power I actually need. I've heard that "marantz watts" can't be compared to a modern receiver denon/onkyo watts, and that's my only reference as I've never owned vintage.
I know the 2270 is the one to go for as you can never get too much power, and things tend to sound better even on low volume with more power. However the price for the 2270 is a bit steep so I'm thinking if the 2245 will be enough. Again, I want to emphasize that I won't connect floor standing big speakers, but a set of smaller bookshelf speakers. To give you any reference, I am currently running a Marshall Woburn in this room, and I found that loud/good enough for the size of the room.
Do you think I'm set with the 2245 or would you go 2270? Or is even the 2245 too much for what I'm pairing it with? Will even a 2215 do?
Thanks for any input, completely new to vintage receiver.
Vol
My post is about felt need and has no claim to exact reality.
Regular bookshelf speakers will provide about 83 to 88 dB with 1 Watt in 1 m distance.
2 speakers and the room will add a little bit, lets say about 3dB
I used 2 m distance here
83dB speaker with 10W in 2 m distance = 87dB one speaker
83dB speaker with 100W in 2 m distance = 97dB one speaker
85dB speaker with 10W in 2m distance = 89dB one speaker
85dB speaker with 100W in 2m distance = 99dB one speaker
88dB speaker with 10W in 2 m distance = 92dB one speaker
88dB speaker with 100W in 2 m distance = 102dB one speaker
85 dB is loud. Continous Levels above 85dB will need hearing protection
Small peaks above are nice to have and will need 10 times the power or more.
Never heared those Marshall Speaker. Its about 50W with unknown speaker efficiency.
For 10 qm in 2m distance (6,5 feet) you may need only a small receiver. For a nice 76dB level you need 0.5W with an 85dB speaker in 2m distance.
For a nice 65dB backround noise with good speech intelligibility you may need 0.05 Watts.
For a loud 86dB you need 10 times the power. If you boost the bass about 10dB you also need 10 times the power.
Loudness is very subjective.
Those Marantz receivers put out a few Watts more than advertised. A few watts difference doesn't realy matter but its nice to have.
Data sheets were more conservative those days.
Today its more about what the amp can do one channel driven under happy circumstances.
Can't comment on the quality differences between the Marantz models but the 2270 looks a lot nicer even if you will never use all of the features. 🙂 Blutooth is not on the menue but can be added externaly.
Old receivers may need expensive love even if you can give it to them by yourself.
A live without those is possible but pointless. 🙂
Regular bookshelf speakers will provide about 83 to 88 dB with 1 Watt in 1 m distance.
2 speakers and the room will add a little bit, lets say about 3dB
I used 2 m distance here
83dB speaker with 10W in 2 m distance = 87dB one speaker
83dB speaker with 100W in 2 m distance = 97dB one speaker
85dB speaker with 10W in 2m distance = 89dB one speaker
85dB speaker with 100W in 2m distance = 99dB one speaker
88dB speaker with 10W in 2 m distance = 92dB one speaker
88dB speaker with 100W in 2 m distance = 102dB one speaker
85 dB is loud. Continous Levels above 85dB will need hearing protection
Small peaks above are nice to have and will need 10 times the power or more.Never heared those Marshall Speaker. Its about 50W with unknown speaker efficiency.
For 10 qm in 2m distance (6,5 feet) you may need only a small receiver. For a nice 76dB level you need 0.5W with an 85dB speaker in 2m distance.
For a nice 65dB backround noise with good speech intelligibility you may need 0.05 Watts.
For a loud 86dB you need 10 times the power. If you boost the bass about 10dB you also need 10 times the power.
Loudness is very subjective.
Those Marantz receivers put out a few Watts more than advertised. A few watts difference doesn't realy matter but its nice to have.
Data sheets were more conservative those days.
Today its more about what the amp can do one channel driven under happy circumstances.
Can't comment on the quality differences between the Marantz models but the 2270 looks a lot nicer even if you will never use all of the features. 🙂 Blutooth is not on the menue but can be added externaly.
Old receivers may need expensive love even if you can give it to them by yourself.
A live without those is possible but pointless. 🙂
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My very first purchase of audio gear was when I dropped cash on a Marantz 2220B with the wood case in 1977 to rock out at The University of Oregon...held onto until about 1982. Around 1993 I bought a 2285B...for about $125, now you can't get one for less than five-hundred...rapidly closing into a Thousand bucks!! The 2220B would run fine, assuming it has been attended to & reworked as needed...The likes of a period correct JBL L36 Decade pair of loudspeakers would round out things just nicely. Remember, a rule of thumb should be, sensitivity goes way down the smaller your loudspeakers get...any sub 88 Db loudspeaker should not even be considered...get something as large as practical....don't skip on this, you'll regret it guaranteed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
Can you even use the FM tuner section in Sweden? If not, you should get an integrated amplifier, not a receiver.
In such a small office, you need speakers designed for use in small areas, preferably active speakers.
There are many good ones, KEF, etc.
Bear in mind that the Marantz receivers were made by Superscope after they bought the Marantz name in 1964.
Saul had nothing to do with them.
In such a small office, you need speakers designed for use in small areas, preferably active speakers.
There are many good ones, KEF, etc.
Bear in mind that the Marantz receivers were made by Superscope after they bought the Marantz name in 1964.
Saul had nothing to do with them.
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Got a 2265B in 1979 for about that days 400$ in europe, now they go for about 800$ in uncertain condition. Some love may be about todays 200$ and a lot of time if you can do it yourself. Mine is still alive but...
Marantz Superscope was a different Brand here in the mid 80th but even Saul Marantz had to cook with the same water. Its 40+ years old gear. But nice to have.
Marantz Superscope was a different Brand here in the mid 80th but even Saul Marantz had to cook with the same water. Its 40+ years old gear. But nice to have.
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What is so unique about Marantz, can you not buy a different brand?
Why not an old Soviet unit?
Or build one around LM1875 pair, good enough for a 10 square meter room.
Or Class D, with a laptop brick supply, also adequate.
If you like the look, make a suitable cabinet.
Read up on Gainclone, how the circuit was modified might be interesting to learn, in the sense a standard chip amp was played around with, different signal paths, changed power supply etc.
But until you are an expert repair man, an old set is too much hassle. Bear that in mind.
Why not an old Soviet unit?
Or build one around LM1875 pair, good enough for a 10 square meter room.
Or Class D, with a laptop brick supply, also adequate.
If you like the look, make a suitable cabinet.
Read up on Gainclone, how the circuit was modified might be interesting to learn, in the sense a standard chip amp was played around with, different signal paths, changed power supply etc.
But until you are an expert repair man, an old set is too much hassle. Bear that in mind.
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For that small room. a 2220B.
But remember, it will still need a rebuild, not just "new LEDs and some caps..". It will need a compete overhaul. all new capacitors, including power supply, likely a bunch of semiconductors and resistors, new lamps (please NO LEDS, they look terrible IMHO) and some tweaking of the tuner.
Figure on 600 bucks for someone who really knows what they're doing and is honest about things.
The 2240/45 was not that good sounding. I gave mine away. the 2275 sounds good but it's overkill for that room.
But remember one thing, they are vintage and they sound vintage. Even when fully rebuilt, I got two Marantz receivers rebuilt to OEM specs, they will still sound dark.
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Superscope was sub-Marantz.
Back in the day, we ignored it as mass market. I laugh my *** off when I see people paying $300 for a 7w Superscope receiver. Fools and their money.
Following up here again. I have found one seller that has a 2245 for an OK price. (350EUR). According to seller, he is selling it because it was inherited from his father which passed away recently. He does not have speakers to try it out on, and lives quite far from me so it means I would need him to ship it to me.
He claims that at least he knows it was working around 6 months ago, because his father had it connected to the speakers. If he connects it to power, everything seems fine and all lamps etc seems to be OK.
Obviously it's impossible to know anything about the condition, but I guess that's also why the price is a bit lower. He seems like a trustworthy guy and he seems to be honest with the fact that he simply does not know anything about the history of the receiver since it was his father.
He did send me some pictures, but it is only on the outside - I decided to attach it here, perhaps someone has input or sees something out of the ordinary. I does look like it has no scratches or so - I do see some brownish edges around the front face plate, but perhaps this is something that can be fixed by just polishing / cleaning it on the front or using some sort of chemical? I asked if he knows if its been recapped / serviced or so, but he had no idea.
Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated!
He claims that at least he knows it was working around 6 months ago, because his father had it connected to the speakers. If he connects it to power, everything seems fine and all lamps etc seems to be OK.
Obviously it's impossible to know anything about the condition, but I guess that's also why the price is a bit lower. He seems like a trustworthy guy and he seems to be honest with the fact that he simply does not know anything about the history of the receiver since it was his father.
He did send me some pictures, but it is only on the outside - I decided to attach it here, perhaps someone has input or sees something out of the ordinary. I does look like it has no scratches or so - I do see some brownish edges around the front face plate, but perhaps this is something that can be fixed by just polishing / cleaning it on the front or using some sort of chemical? I asked if he knows if its been recapped / serviced or so, but he had no idea.
Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated!
Attachments
I almost told you "but it's not going well in your head? 350€ for a 2245 that you're not even sure works"
and then I looked at the prices on the net ...
yours is barely more expensive than a new woodcase made in Germany.
I hallucinate...
PS: here, the superscopes I picked them up in the recycling centers or for a few euros, I still have one that I took out from under a big crt tv in the container, it's a little crushed but works perfectly.
Otherwise I do not understand the interest of a receiver (in 2022) compared to an integrated amplifier (except for the pretty side of the backlit facade) but the tastes and colors ...
personally in this case I would take a 1030 or a 1045 or even a harman A401 and add a quality bluetooth receiver module to it, but once again, the tastes and colors...
and then I looked at the prices on the net ...
yours is barely more expensive than a new woodcase made in Germany.
I hallucinate...
PS: here, the superscopes I picked them up in the recycling centers or for a few euros, I still have one that I took out from under a big crt tv in the container, it's a little crushed but works perfectly.
Otherwise I do not understand the interest of a receiver (in 2022) compared to an integrated amplifier (except for the pretty side of the backlit facade) but the tastes and colors ...
personally in this case I would take a 1030 or a 1045 or even a harman A401 and add a quality bluetooth receiver module to it, but once again, the tastes and colors...
otherwise.
Clean
non-smoking environment
the cover screws seem untouched by any technician
same for the rear screws.
it is beautiful and it remains an adventure for you but you will most certainly have to put your hands in it otherwise it will self-destruct in a short time.
It's up to you to know what you want to do
Clean
non-smoking environment
the cover screws seem untouched by any technician
same for the rear screws.
it is beautiful and it remains an adventure for you but you will most certainly have to put your hands in it otherwise it will self-destruct in a short time.
It's up to you to know what you want to do
nope, it's a second generation, it seems all original and in very good condition.
if it works and in view of the current sale price, it seems to be a very good deal
if it works and in view of the current sale price, it seems to be a very good deal
Thanks!! Do you think the miscolouring etc on the faceplate can be "cleaned" off? It looks like it is the champagne coloured one, but it has some brown miscolouring around the edges and at some spots. Doesn't look like scratches, more like.. grease or dirt?
Understandably, there needs to be some reserve power in amps/receivers when occasionally they are cranked up.
Some of it depends on the speakers used, the room size, etc.
But what people don't seem to understand is that the hype and popularity behind massive-powered amps is superficial bragging rights, so the common person naturally buys into that type of thing.
In reality, as Fone Bones #2 post describes, the actual wattage in normal listening is quite small.
My own system, if pushed to pump out just a couple of watts into large floorstanding speakers, makes any conversation impossible unless you yell across the room.
I never use the 60 watts per channel in my home, my neighbors wouldn't like it, and my own hearing would be in danger.
Before the later 1970's/early 1980's "Wattage wars", most amplifiers were rated at 15 to 30 watts per channel, and life was great, nobody complained.
Some of it depends on the speakers used, the room size, etc.
But what people don't seem to understand is that the hype and popularity behind massive-powered amps is superficial bragging rights, so the common person naturally buys into that type of thing.
In reality, as Fone Bones #2 post describes, the actual wattage in normal listening is quite small.
My own system, if pushed to pump out just a couple of watts into large floorstanding speakers, makes any conversation impossible unless you yell across the room.
I never use the 60 watts per channel in my home, my neighbors wouldn't like it, and my own hearing would be in danger.
Before the later 1970's/early 1980's "Wattage wars", most amplifiers were rated at 15 to 30 watts per channel, and life was great, nobody complained.
To my eyes and senses, it seems like a good deal - provided you feel the 350 is a fair price. Adult owned, so nice and clean both inside and out - the little brownage noted around the edges aint nothin'...
A soft cloth with a little mild soapy water and some patience can work wonders. Aggressive cleaning agents can cause damage to the surface and lettering.
From the looks of the device, I would be most afraid of shipping it. Parcels are often thrown roughly around...
From the looks of the device, I would be most afraid of shipping it. Parcels are often thrown roughly around...
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