I would like opinions of members who have compared or listened to JBL Everest DD67000 and Avantgarde Duo Mezzo (not the new XD version).
I auditioned Avantgarde Uno Nano in 2011 and really liked it. I don't have any exposure to Avantgarde Duo Mezzo yet. Last week I compared JBL Everest DD67000 against Revel Salon 2 and I liked JBLs much more. Thus I think now I am horn guy 😀.
If I get Avantgarde Duo Mezzo (107 dB) then I'll try to find at least 50 watts of SET amplifier which has lowest noise and hum. With JBL Everest DD67000 (96 dB), I think my 400 watts Krell FPB 400 will be fine.
Please help me by expressing frankly!
I auditioned Avantgarde Uno Nano in 2011 and really liked it. I don't have any exposure to Avantgarde Duo Mezzo yet. Last week I compared JBL Everest DD67000 against Revel Salon 2 and I liked JBLs much more. Thus I think now I am horn guy 😀.
If I get Avantgarde Duo Mezzo (107 dB) then I'll try to find at least 50 watts of SET amplifier which has lowest noise and hum. With JBL Everest DD67000 (96 dB), I think my 400 watts Krell FPB 400 will be fine.
Please help me by expressing frankly!
Wow, those two speakers are $$$$$, so very few people might have had chance to compare them side by side, or back to back.
I once listened to Avantgarde Trio and Everest DD55000 long time ago. Both were super good at standard Jazz music. Trio was way better for violin - less fatigueing, but I don't remember what amplifiers were matched.
You'll have to decide for yourself, but this is my 2 cents. Listen to a violin solo, like Bach Partita, and see which one is smoother yet detailed.
I once listened to Avantgarde Trio and Everest DD55000 long time ago. Both were super good at standard Jazz music. Trio was way better for violin - less fatigueing, but I don't remember what amplifiers were matched.
You'll have to decide for yourself, but this is my 2 cents. Listen to a violin solo, like Bach Partita, and see which one is smoother yet detailed.
Your listening room can affect your choice.
-size
-shape
-speaker placement options
-listener seating options
-room treatments...walls, floor, ceiling
Consider room interaction when you read professional reviews.
The bi-radial horns on the DD67000 are probably less room sensitive.
-size
-shape
-speaker placement options
-listener seating options
-room treatments...walls, floor, ceiling
Consider room interaction when you read professional reviews.
The bi-radial horns on the DD67000 are probably less room sensitive.
FWIW, a friend has the Everests and uses McIntosh MC601 for the bottom plus MC275 for the midarnge and tweeter. And subwoofers. Everests are easy to remove the lower xo so adding a tube amp to the top down the road is easy.
Bottom line: these speakers benefir from lots of power beyond what the 96 dB sensitivity might lead one to believe. At least I know I thought he was nuts when adding so much power, but then it did sound better.
Too bad I have not heard an Avantgarde.
Bottom line: these speakers benefir from lots of power beyond what the 96 dB sensitivity might lead one to believe. At least I know I thought he was nuts when adding so much power, but then it did sound better.
Too bad I have not heard an Avantgarde.
I concur that the Everests, for some reason, need a lot of power, much more than the 96 dB sensitivity would indicate. At the audio shows, JBL demonstrates them with Mark Levinson (also part of Harmon International) Class D 500-watt amplifiers (per channel).
From the limited auditioning I've done, the Everests and Avante-Gardes sound completely different. The Avante-Gardes work fine with 8-watt SET amplifiers, which is out of the question with the Everests. From what I heard, the Everests need at least 100 to 200 watts/channel for good subjective dynamic range, which is beyond what most vacuum-tube amplifiers can do.
What's puzzling is my own Ariel speakers, at 92 dB sensitivity, work just fine with 8 to 20 triode amplifiers. Not surprising, since that's what they're designed for. Sound quality goes down (a lot) when they're used with 100~200 watt transistor amplifiers ... I've auditioned many different amps with the Ariels, and that's just how they work.
The Everests, though, seem to be the other way around. They need a lot of power for the sound to "open up" and sound like a high-efficiency speaker. The usual 60 watts/channel from traditional push-pull KT88/6550 amplifiers is definitely not enough ... bi-amping is a clever workaround, though, and allows the amplifier of your choice with the very efficient MF/HF horns.
From the limited auditioning I've done, the Everests and Avante-Gardes sound completely different. The Avante-Gardes work fine with 8-watt SET amplifiers, which is out of the question with the Everests. From what I heard, the Everests need at least 100 to 200 watts/channel for good subjective dynamic range, which is beyond what most vacuum-tube amplifiers can do.
What's puzzling is my own Ariel speakers, at 92 dB sensitivity, work just fine with 8 to 20 triode amplifiers. Not surprising, since that's what they're designed for. Sound quality goes down (a lot) when they're used with 100~200 watt transistor amplifiers ... I've auditioned many different amps with the Ariels, and that's just how they work.
The Everests, though, seem to be the other way around. They need a lot of power for the sound to "open up" and sound like a high-efficiency speaker. The usual 60 watts/channel from traditional push-pull KT88/6550 amplifiers is definitely not enough ... bi-amping is a clever workaround, though, and allows the amplifier of your choice with the very efficient MF/HF horns.
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Indeed. This friend of mine tried the McIntosh MC275 as monoblocks (150 W per channel) driving the Everest vs the 275 as mono blocks only for kids and treble plus the 601 for the bass and preferred the latter. Counterintuitive!
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The Avantgarde Duo Mezzo has an attached 3-way programmable DSP with a 1000-watt Class-D bass power amp which uses a switching power supply to reduce size and heat. Simple setup for tube amps on top, big watts on two 12" woofers. Philosophy: Good in-room bass requires hi-tech Voodoo
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LineSource, only the latest Avantgarde Duo Mezzo has this DSP, Class-D capabilities. And for that reason and cost I am looking to buy last generation Avantgarde Duo Mezzo which used 500 watt class AB amplifier with crossover and volume adjustment.
And I am not sure how to compare 107 dB sensitivity of Avantgarde Duo Mezzo with 96 dB sensitivity of JBL DD67000. Below 170 Hz, Avantgarde has it's own 500 watts Class AB amplifier, thus, it is a semi-active loudspeaker whereas JBL is fully passive.
I am also confused what role the voicing of external and internal amplifier plays in Avantgarde final sound. Can one hear two different amplifier at this crossover point?
I am also confused what role the voicing of external and internal amplifier plays in Avantgarde final sound. Can one hear two different amplifier at this crossover point?
Some have testimonied the newer and less expensive JBL M2 monitor beats the Everest.... Worth a listening too ? It's horn/wave guide seems a trade off made for many rooms topology !
94 dB efficienty and seems also needing tons of watts !
94 dB efficienty and seems also needing tons of watts !
I think I'd go with the JBL actually. They seem better engineered and with fewer design errors\compromises than the AG. I have not heard the JBLs though, but I have heard many AG speakers including the Mezzo. The units AG use are not top notch, while JBL really knows their technology, IMO.
The first speaker of AG is just bad (the white one, whatever says the press, it sounds just bad and directiv - bad soundstage) !
the philosophy is not the same, either the speakers : better to compare 3 ways to a 3 ways ? So the AG 3 are phenomelic diagphragm compression driver while the JBLs Everest are Be !
The upper bass low mid is played by 15" with the Everest but are horned in the AG 3...
Unless the horns, it should not sound the same !
I will just let the ears decide and also see what is the amp needed and the price I have to invest in it for a good match with one or other speaker.... money trade off certainly ! Easier to amp for AG ! Better looking and smaller speaker with the Everest for home (waf / and is it me ?... the AG are just horrible due to the te tech choices)
... all trade off, but I will give a chance to the JBL M2 for a listening session.
the philosophy is not the same, either the speakers : better to compare 3 ways to a 3 ways ? So the AG 3 are phenomelic diagphragm compression driver while the JBLs Everest are Be !
The upper bass low mid is played by 15" with the Everest but are horned in the AG 3...
Unless the horns, it should not sound the same !
I will just let the ears decide and also see what is the amp needed and the price I have to invest in it for a good match with one or other speaker.... money trade off certainly ! Easier to amp for AG ! Better looking and smaller speaker with the Everest for home (waf / and is it me ?... the AG are just horrible due to the te tech choices)
... all trade off, but I will give a chance to the JBL M2 for a listening session.
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I've heard tons of horn loudspeakers, including about half of the Avantgarde line.
They're not even in the same ballpark as the Danley SH-50s.
While the Danley SH-50 isn't the best loudspeaker I've ever heard, it's probably the best horn, and it sounds light years better than the Avantgarde speakers.
To me, the Avantgarde speakers are VERY dynamic, and that's an attention getter. But it gets fatiguing in a hurry. The SH-50s basically sound like a conventional three-way speaker, but they image like nothing else out there. (My current speakers are Vandersteen, and the SH-50s actually sound quite similar, but they image better and they're more dynamic.)
If I had to fault anything in the SH-50, it would probably be the treble, if you look at the spec sheet the treble is a little rough. The high frequency performance of Bill Waslo's Synergy Horns is superior in IMHO.
So there you have it. $60,000 for AvantGarde, $10,000 for SH-50s, or build a set of Bill's Synergy Horns for less than $500.
I have heard Trio and DD66000 at different audio shows.
DD66000 is a somewhat conventional hifi sounding speaker, and it sounded very well with many kind of music, but it doesnt have a typical classical horn signature, so that some horn lovers would miss it. Trio didnt sound very well when i heard it, and my impression is it is not very versatile.
By the way, Magico and Western horns are my dream commercial horn system. 😉
DD66000 is a somewhat conventional hifi sounding speaker, and it sounded very well with many kind of music, but it doesnt have a typical classical horn signature, so that some horn lovers would miss it. Trio didnt sound very well when i heard it, and my impression is it is not very versatile.
By the way, Magico and Western horns are my dream commercial horn system. 😉
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Everst any day. Better SQ and better value. Better directivity and better drive units. Avantgarde had like many says a distinct horn sound. Some like it, but most find it anoying and not suitable on many recordings.
I heard M2 and K2 s9900 back to back. Prefered the M2 overall. M2 has very little horn coloration.
Personally i would bypass the passive xo in the Everst and use a good DSP with FIR filters and properly time align and corect the phase response. Use a large amp with about 1000w for the 15's and a low gain amp like FW or Anaview ams 1000 on the horns. That should make it even better. Might be off topic, but this is DIY audio.
I heard M2 and K2 s9900 back to back. Prefered the M2 overall. M2 has very little horn coloration.
Personally i would bypass the passive xo in the Everst and use a good DSP with FIR filters and properly time align and corect the phase response. Use a large amp with about 1000w for the 15's and a low gain amp like FW or Anaview ams 1000 on the horns. That should make it even better. Might be off topic, but this is DIY audio.
If the choices are between these two, I would say JBL Everest. Avantgarde has clear coloration from the horn IMO. They are dynamic, but that's basically the only really good attribute I could give them. It's like listening to music with the flavor of tuba sound to everything.
I would also agree that Danley SH-50 and JBL M2 are most likely better designs than both of these, but I haven't heard them myself yet.
I would also agree that Danley SH-50 and JBL M2 are most likely better designs than both of these, but I haven't heard them myself yet.
This is the plan for my DD6700's.
Patrick? What did you use for amps on the SH50's? I am using the I-Tech 500HD's from my M2 project here on the 50's with four of the "Mini's" under them vertically bi-amped and damn do they sound good!
Back to the DD's, there is something I really like about the two 15" boxes. Same with 4350's and 4435's, they have impact that none of the other direct radiator boxes have. The woofers in the 6700 Everest's are absolutely amazing. I have never heard anything that compares.
Barry.
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