how to clean our ac power??
how to clean our ac cable and ac power, some internet use ac cable that send their internet data signals .... it is very bad for our hifi system !!!!!!!!!!!!!
how to clean our ac cable and ac power, some internet use ac cable that send their internet data signals .... it is very bad for our hifi system !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a few suggestions:
a) use of dedicated power stations. Ideally, you would like to have one nuclear power plant for each of your channels to minimize cross-talk and noise. It may cost you a few billion dollars and sizable land, but how can you call yourself audiophile if you aren't ready to sacrifice for the best sound possible?
b) transmission grid: the public grid is just too polluted for us audiophiles (aka nuts). You will need to construct your own grid to maintain the high quality from your generator to your house. I suggest 4x4 solid gold bars to minimize voltage droop and induced modulation.
c) in-house wiring: they are usually totally inadequate. Change them out to 120% pure solid gold bars.
d) in-amplifier device upgrade: have you seen those tinny wires inside of those semiconductor devices? How can powerful electrons go through them unscattered? You will need to open us those transistors and use gold wires (solid gold wires) there.
While you are at it, why should we use semi conductor devices? Afterall, less than 100% of them are conducting at any given time! I would again use 100% pure conductor transistors instead.
The best approach to minimize interference and to enjoy uninterrupted music, I am afriad to see, is to live in a plant / galaxy / universe all by yourself. That way, you are guarrantted not to be harassed by anyone else.
a) use of dedicated power stations. Ideally, you would like to have one nuclear power plant for each of your channels to minimize cross-talk and noise. It may cost you a few billion dollars and sizable land, but how can you call yourself audiophile if you aren't ready to sacrifice for the best sound possible?
b) transmission grid: the public grid is just too polluted for us audiophiles (aka nuts). You will need to construct your own grid to maintain the high quality from your generator to your house. I suggest 4x4 solid gold bars to minimize voltage droop and induced modulation.
c) in-house wiring: they are usually totally inadequate. Change them out to 120% pure solid gold bars.
d) in-amplifier device upgrade: have you seen those tinny wires inside of those semiconductor devices? How can powerful electrons go through them unscattered? You will need to open us those transistors and use gold wires (solid gold wires) there.
While you are at it, why should we use semi conductor devices? Afterall, less than 100% of them are conducting at any given time! I would again use 100% pure conductor transistors instead.
The best approach to minimize interference and to enjoy uninterrupted music, I am afriad to see, is to live in a plant / galaxy / universe all by yourself. That way, you are guarrantted not to be harassed by anyone else.
I think the gentleman is simlpy asking about how to clean up some of the noise on their mains line...
It seems like their power is more poluted than what we are used to as their local ISP's are also pushing data through the electricity network.
If none of us had concerns for this, we would simlpy stick a rectifier to our transformers and be done with that....
Other than modifying the actual powersupplies to add more filtering, you could probably buy a line conditioner, which should filter noise etc... but they are not cheap ($300+ for a good one)
It seems like their power is more poluted than what we are used to as their local ISP's are also pushing data through the electricity network.
If none of us had concerns for this, we would simlpy stick a rectifier to our transformers and be done with that....
Other than modifying the actual powersupplies to add more filtering, you could probably buy a line conditioner, which should filter noise etc... but they are not cheap ($300+ for a good one)
Until recently I was skeptical of power conditioners and worries about AC noise. I'm still inclined to roll my eyes at expensive power cords that do wonders for bass response.
However, I have recently tracked down some causes of hissing at the speakers and buzzing transformers to the AC. The culprit isn't digital data on the house AC lines -- rather it seems to be associated with the current (as opossed to voltage) wave form distortions that may be caused by ubiquitous SMPS's on the circuit. (BTW it gets worse if there are triacs involved in light dimmers, soft start circuits, etc)
Observing mains current is a bit dicey unless you have a current probe of differential probe. It can be done without these expensive items but I hesitate to recommend it due to safety issues.
I used a power entry module in an amp (connector + fuses + filter) but found that just moved the annoyingly audible noise to the filter ("boinnnnnggggbuzzzzzzzzzz").
I've seen adds (www.partsexpress.com ?) for proffessional (as opossed to audiophile) power conditiopns that are fairly reasonably priced and which seem to have literature discussion the functio and features in a useful manner rather than hype.
However, I have recently tracked down some causes of hissing at the speakers and buzzing transformers to the AC. The culprit isn't digital data on the house AC lines -- rather it seems to be associated with the current (as opossed to voltage) wave form distortions that may be caused by ubiquitous SMPS's on the circuit. (BTW it gets worse if there are triacs involved in light dimmers, soft start circuits, etc)
Observing mains current is a bit dicey unless you have a current probe of differential probe. It can be done without these expensive items but I hesitate to recommend it due to safety issues.
I used a power entry module in an amp (connector + fuses + filter) but found that just moved the annoyingly audible noise to the filter ("boinnnnnggggbuzzzzzzzzzz").
I've seen adds (www.partsexpress.com ?) for proffessional (as opossed to audiophile) power conditiopns that are fairly reasonably priced and which seem to have literature discussion the functio and features in a useful manner rather than hype.
Re: how to clean our ac power??
hi,
you can use line conditioners, consisting of, emi filters, surge supressors and an isolation transformer like the one shown below which i diy'ed:
tube shop said:
hi,
you can use line conditioners, consisting of, emi filters, surge supressors and an isolation transformer like the one shown below which i diy'ed:
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
sam9 said:
I roll my eyes all the time, particularly after reading Stereophile and other high-end mags. Peddling offal.
I have cleaned up the power with a bifilar choke on the mains side of the transformer with some line-rated polypropylene caps ---- I think the fear of inductance is a complete canard on the part of those who have no knowledge of physics.
Transformers, especially toroids, will be noisy and unhappy if theres DC offset on the lines, which is not that rare. If this is the problem DC shunts can be built fairly cheaply.
Tweeker said:
I live in a part of the US which is served by "Fourth World Electric" -- the power of our juice stinks -- I have had the power company (now part of First Energy) put a monitor on the line for weeks at a time -- I can never recall, in a period of 20 years, a period during which the mean level of the A.C. line was anytihng other than ZERO volts. I have never seen a DC "offset" on the mains here.
And I don't mean to be nice to FE or its predecessor GPU or its predecessor JCP&L.
Lucky you! Not only can I usually see up to 2-3V offset, it changes every few minutes as I watch.
Oh yes, the voltage changes pretty often too. You can feed a sine iinput to an amplifier so that it is just below visible clipping, when watch as the tops start going flat, wait a few minutes and see them round out again. Very amussing.
Re: how to clean our ac power??
Buy a big >5kW EI core (not torroid/R) isolation transformer on the surplus market. It will act as a low pass filter and clear out a lot of the noise in the system.tube shop said:
Hello Everyone,
If I suffered a problem my AC supply to the point where I couldn't enjoy my music anymore, I would go out and buy as many 12Volt car batteries as would be needed to power my amplifier and bypass the transformer all together. I would change them at night or set up a trickle charger setup and disconnect the mains power when I wanted to listen to my Amplifier.
If I suffered a problem my AC supply to the point where I couldn't enjoy my music anymore, I would go out and buy as many 12Volt car batteries as would be needed to power my amplifier and bypass the transformer all together. I would change them at night or set up a trickle charger setup and disconnect the mains power when I wanted to listen to my Amplifier.
Theres issues with using lead acid batteries indoors.
Also, while they may be DC, they arent especially clean DC from what I read here at TNT Audio.
Also, while they may be DC, they arent especially clean DC from what I read here at TNT Audio.
Re: Re: how to clean our ac power??
there's a tradeoff between the leakage inductance which mitigates spikes and the capacitance between primary and secondary which likes to pass them along.
DC offset -- this should serve to heat the core of the transformer -- and those types of problems. Have you checked for a ground fault, possible corroded ground connection between the fuse box and ground?
Brett said:
there's a tradeoff between the leakage inductance which mitigates spikes and the capacitance between primary and secondary which likes to pass them along.
DC offset -- this should serve to heat the core of the transformer -- and those types of problems. Have you checked for a ground fault, possible corroded ground connection between the fuse box and ground?
I have a 12.5 amp 1500 VA EI core isolation transformer. Is this large enough to be of value? My understanding is that an EI transformer forms a low pass filter and so gets rid of lots of the RF "junk" that is riding on the incoming AC.
Should I try it?
Also, what happens if there is a sudden interruption to the AC service to my home? Will the transformer's magnetic field unload and send a dangerous spike to my attached electronics? If I use it should I include a husky MOV across its output?
Thanks
Should I try it?
Also, what happens if there is a sudden interruption to the AC service to my home? Will the transformer's magnetic field unload and send a dangerous spike to my attached electronics? If I use it should I include a husky MOV across its output?
Thanks
Attachments
As said before, there is something really wrong in that measurement as it is generating loads of 50hz disturbance. Real performance of lead-acids remains to be seen until someone makes a bit more believable measurement.Tweeker said:
The high frequency AC signals present in any mains line may be subdivided in two groups: Common mode and differential mode.
Common mode signals appear between both phase and neutral, and earth, and they are easily radiated by wiring. Therefore, even an isolation transformer won't filter them at all due to inter-winding capacitance, but a common mode choke will do a great job.
Differential mode signals appear between phase and neutral, and will be gently filtered by any LF transformer, including the ones from the power supplies of aduio equipment, so they are a minor concern.
Common mode signals appear between both phase and neutral, and earth, and they are easily radiated by wiring. Therefore, even an isolation transformer won't filter them at all due to inter-winding capacitance, but a common mode choke will do a great job.
Differential mode signals appear between phase and neutral, and will be gently filtered by any LF transformer, including the ones from the power supplies of aduio equipment, so they are a minor concern.
Could you not get a very clean mains electromechanically?
I mean say, buy two reasonably sized electric motors and then mechanically couple them together. One takes power from the mains and then feeds it mechanically to the second.
You could couple them with a solid bushing but there's more chance of higher frequencies getting from A -> B with that. Better would be a belt between the two.
Not much high frequency noise should make it through the system as it is. But if you wanted to get classy I guess you could add a really heavy flywheel to the second motor's spindle so it takes a minute or two to spin up. If you're using valves you're going to have to wait for them to warm up anyway right?
I'm only thinking of that because I have buckets of lead spare I'm trying to think of a use for. 😀
Adding a big heavy flywheel should blast away transients from the mains.
Now you'd have your own localised AC generator, powered from the normal mains but highly isolated from it.
If the flywheel was heavy enough it might even ride over brown outs quite well on it's own. You definitly wouldn't have to worry about reactive spikes as magnetics lost and regained power.
You could scoop the motors second hand from somewhere; use your imagination.
I only thought of it because you could end up spending quite a lot of money and time on a perfected electronic filter, so the motor idea's quirkyness starts becoming more acceptable.
Obviously have to situate the device in the garage or something and run a line in.
If you buy a three phase machine tool and want to use it on single phase at home you can either buy a solid state variable frequency converter or mechanically couple two motors together, one suited to the machine's motor and the other to your mains. Roughly the same idea just for a different reason.
I'm not suggesting this as a majorly serious idea, just a thought. 😉
If you're really into audio, would like a clean line and are considering a huge bank of 12V batteries I guess it's not so bad.
I mean say, buy two reasonably sized electric motors and then mechanically couple them together. One takes power from the mains and then feeds it mechanically to the second.
You could couple them with a solid bushing but there's more chance of higher frequencies getting from A -> B with that. Better would be a belt between the two.
Not much high frequency noise should make it through the system as it is. But if you wanted to get classy I guess you could add a really heavy flywheel to the second motor's spindle so it takes a minute or two to spin up. If you're using valves you're going to have to wait for them to warm up anyway right?
I'm only thinking of that because I have buckets of lead spare I'm trying to think of a use for. 😀
Adding a big heavy flywheel should blast away transients from the mains.
Now you'd have your own localised AC generator, powered from the normal mains but highly isolated from it.
If the flywheel was heavy enough it might even ride over brown outs quite well on it's own. You definitly wouldn't have to worry about reactive spikes as magnetics lost and regained power.
You could scoop the motors second hand from somewhere; use your imagination.
I only thought of it because you could end up spending quite a lot of money and time on a perfected electronic filter, so the motor idea's quirkyness starts becoming more acceptable.
Obviously have to situate the device in the garage or something and run a line in.
If you buy a three phase machine tool and want to use it on single phase at home you can either buy a solid state variable frequency converter or mechanically couple two motors together, one suited to the machine's motor and the other to your mains. Roughly the same idea just for a different reason.
I'm not suggesting this as a majorly serious idea, just a thought. 😉
If you're really into audio, would like a clean line and are considering a huge bank of 12V batteries I guess it's not so bad.
we are using flywheel based energy storage systems in the US for critical applications -- sort of liked pumped storage -- i would like to know how much the bearings cost in one of those babies.eeka chu said:
jackinnj said:
Yep, I've heard of that; big mechanical batteries.
The bearings are usually magnetic I think.
I believe they're quite common in orbiting satellites. Since satellites are in a super low zero gravity enviroment to start with when you add magnetic bearings you end up with an incredibly low loss system.
I imagine the bearings are quite expensive but not excessively so. A normal contact bearing is probably as expensive. The bearings in these don't need to be ultra precise they just have to be low drag.
The most expensive bearings are probably the magnetic ones used in machine tool spindles as they need to be both whilst resisting extremely high deflection forces.
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