Hi friends
I know it is a bit off audio, but as the best of the best are here, I dare to ask:
Does anyone of you know a coating for brass that withstands water and cosmetic chemicals (like soap, shampoos, lotion, all that gooey stuff one finds in a western bathroom...), available in switzerland/europe? If it is not glossy, all the better!
I have to protect a little shelve made in brass, that will be in the shower cubicle of a very demanding customer...
(The image depict the raw piece, it has to be sanded/bushed/polished, and cleaned of course)
Many thank for your tips and merry easter!
david
I know it is a bit off audio, but as the best of the best are here, I dare to ask:
Does anyone of you know a coating for brass that withstands water and cosmetic chemicals (like soap, shampoos, lotion, all that gooey stuff one finds in a western bathroom...), available in switzerland/europe? If it is not glossy, all the better!
I have to protect a little shelve made in brass, that will be in the shower cubicle of a very demanding customer...
(The image depict the raw piece, it has to be sanded/bushed/polished, and cleaned of course)
Many thank for your tips and merry easter!
david
Attachments
Take it from the worst of the mediocre: it needs chrome plating like usual in water rich environments.
Don't know the process for matte chrome/stainless steel look as seen today but both are not as sturdy as the standard finish of brass stuff in bath rooms. There simply is no other suitable equivalent when it is about longevity and easy cleaning.
Don't know the process for matte chrome/stainless steel look as seen today but both are not as sturdy as the standard finish of brass stuff in bath rooms. There simply is no other suitable equivalent when it is about longevity and easy cleaning.
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Anekdote: had to visit a US factory of shampoos etc long ago. When entering the premises I had of course fill in forms and stuff as such companies think they are a target in enemy area (who is the enemy and who is the target ? 🙂). When I could go on I had to wear a chemsuit and mask plus glasses they handed out. The guy told me that despite seemingly innocent products the ingredients were not exactly innocent. Some of them were lethal.
I used to work in a shop that specialized in vintage Porsche 356 restoration.
Much of the engine hardware, fuel system linkage and assembly parts were a combination of steel and/or brass in very poor condition and needed to be stripped and replated.
Their choice was to use Silver Cadmium plating. It was very durable, water and chemical resistant and had a matte silver appearance (as opposed to the golden hue of traditional Cadmium plating which essentially had been discontinued due to its toxic process).
There was only one plating service in our area of the U.S. that did the process.
Perhaps it is an option in your country?
Much of the engine hardware, fuel system linkage and assembly parts were a combination of steel and/or brass in very poor condition and needed to be stripped and replated.
Their choice was to use Silver Cadmium plating. It was very durable, water and chemical resistant and had a matte silver appearance (as opposed to the golden hue of traditional Cadmium plating which essentially had been discontinued due to its toxic process).
There was only one plating service in our area of the U.S. that did the process.
Perhaps it is an option in your country?
Funny you suggest some electrolytic process, which didn’t come to my mind!
☕ As it’s too early for a
!
I was initially, reluctantly, thinking something epoxi, but gold-plating they will love I am quite sure…
Zapon is one of the basic treatments more metals I know, but I fear this would not aushalten the mix of permanent humidity and soapy cosmetic chemicals.
(The wet shampoo-bottle put there and forgotten…)
@jean-paul I am not sure if I should tell them to not use those products wothout using a chemsuit and goggles 🤭
☕ As it’s too early for a
!I was initially, reluctantly, thinking something epoxi, but gold-plating they will love I am quite sure…
Zapon is one of the basic treatments more metals I know, but I fear this would not aushalten the mix of permanent humidity and soapy cosmetic chemicals.
(The wet shampoo-bottle put there and forgotten…)
@jean-paul I am not sure if I should tell them to not use those products wothout using a chemsuit and goggles 🤭
Gold is weak and cleaning/polishing as the average cleaning persons do so may scratch or remove the coating. I am also curious what it will cost 🙂
The ingredients are of course lethal in the there usual large amounts/high concentrations but shampoo certainly is not an innocent product. Tip: it is better not to ingest it 🙂 Once had an incentive and there was a guy working in factory that produces the filler component: plastics. Also the filler components in tooth paste. It is refreshing to visit factories and see how stuff is made. I regularly visited a factory in protein and there hygiene is paramount with many types of changing clothes, washing hands, desinfecting tools etc. It is astonishing what is made from whey, itself a residue from cheese production.
The ingredients are of course lethal in the there usual large amounts/high concentrations but shampoo certainly is not an innocent product. Tip: it is better not to ingest it 🙂 Once had an incentive and there was a guy working in factory that produces the filler component: plastics. Also the filler components in tooth paste. It is refreshing to visit factories and see how stuff is made. I regularly visited a factory in protein and there hygiene is paramount with many types of changing clothes, washing hands, desinfecting tools etc. It is astonishing what is made from whey, itself a residue from cheese production.
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That's really interesting because I've seen both matte silver and gold described as cadmium plated, and always meant to Google it but forgot. You've partly explained that BOTH can be cadmium plating. I always thought cadmium plating was the goldish plating (sometimes showing other colours like purple). Thanks for the info!
I'm not a metallurgical expert, but I believe that no metal would withstand prolonged exposure to the sea or a "hostile" environment such as the one you describe without eventually suffering some type of damage.
https://www.unifiedalloys.com/blog/304-316-stainless
In my opinion, there is no definitive and/or maintenance-free solution that will last over time for your needs.
However I found interesting a similar treatment that looks promising and ships worldwide (no ties with them).
https://everbrite.co.nz/stop-brass-from-tarnishing/
https://everbrite.net/
Yes I had the same impression about cadmium.
I had been working on many European cars since my youth and it was pretty standard to see all fastners on them have that iridescent golden/yellow cadmium plating.
It wasn’t until much later on when I was involved in restorations that I discovered the existence of the “silver cadmium” and eventually found out the reason for its use being supposedly health/environmental from the head tech in the shop.
I wish I knew more about the specific differences in process between the two…alas, there was work to be done 😉
P.S. Oxidation of metals is an inescapable eventuality. You cannot avoid it where water and oxygen exist. In time every coating will fail. Even stainless steel will rust given the right conditions. All you can do is hope the surface treatment you use will outlast your customers expectations. I learned this from a lifetime of working with metal in various foundries and shops.
Also, oxidation can be beautiful and actually form a protective barrier to prevent further deterioration given the presence of the correct chemistry. This is why bronze and cast iron are chosen for various applications…engine blocks, maritime etc
I had been working on many European cars since my youth and it was pretty standard to see all fastners on them have that iridescent golden/yellow cadmium plating.
It wasn’t until much later on when I was involved in restorations that I discovered the existence of the “silver cadmium” and eventually found out the reason for its use being supposedly health/environmental from the head tech in the shop.
I wish I knew more about the specific differences in process between the two…alas, there was work to be done 😉
P.S. Oxidation of metals is an inescapable eventuality. You cannot avoid it where water and oxygen exist. In time every coating will fail. Even stainless steel will rust given the right conditions. All you can do is hope the surface treatment you use will outlast your customers expectations. I learned this from a lifetime of working with metal in various foundries and shops.
Also, oxidation can be beautiful and actually form a protective barrier to prevent further deterioration given the presence of the correct chemistry. This is why bronze and cast iron are chosen for various applications…engine blocks, maritime etc
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Yes, it could be that I've misinterpreted the topic, but frankly I had thought that the OP wanted to keep the color of the brass and not cover it with any non-transparent substance.
So, if one looks a bit at their website of the products that I had confidently indicated seemed really exceptional to me for what they show both in improving the appearance of the brass and in protecting and maintaining its best aesthetic qualities and in the fact that they are made in the U.S.A. and that they are also suitable for exteriors and for "demanding" environments.
To be honest, they still seem like a potentially good choice to me from what you read on their website:
"Our coatings will seal and protect brass to prevent tarnish oxidation and patina for years.
The coatings are self-annealing and graffiti resistant—so if anything happens, all you need is a touch up.
The coatings have excellent adhesion, even on highly polished brass.
Everbrite™ Protective Coating and ProtectaClear® and CrobialCoat are UV stable and guaranteed not to yellow or discolour with age with exposure to the sun’s UV.
CrobialCoat™ is a tough, durable clear coating with the added advantage of silver-ion antimicrobial technology."
But, as I said, it could also be that I misinterpreted the OP's needs. 🤔
So, if one looks a bit at their website of the products that I had confidently indicated seemed really exceptional to me for what they show both in improving the appearance of the brass and in protecting and maintaining its best aesthetic qualities and in the fact that they are made in the U.S.A. and that they are also suitable for exteriors and for "demanding" environments.
To be honest, they still seem like a potentially good choice to me from what you read on their website:
"Our coatings will seal and protect brass to prevent tarnish oxidation and patina for years.
The coatings are self-annealing and graffiti resistant—so if anything happens, all you need is a touch up.
The coatings have excellent adhesion, even on highly polished brass.
Everbrite™ Protective Coating and ProtectaClear® and CrobialCoat are UV stable and guaranteed not to yellow or discolour with age with exposure to the sun’s UV.
CrobialCoat™ is a tough, durable clear coating with the added advantage of silver-ion antimicrobial technology."
But, as I said, it could also be that I misinterpreted the OP's needs. 🤔
In the spirit of DIY....
Nickel isn't too difficult to plate, particularly on a brass substrate. There are quite a few DIY videos out there that describe how to do it. Caswell sells kits, ranging from basic (l$$) on up to $$$$. Nickel plating is very robust, and the chemicals needed to plate it aren't in the "lethal" category, although you still want to wear gloves and eye protection when mixing up the chemicals. Chrome plating is a different story, so is gold. Those typically use the really nasty chemicals like cyanide and hexavalent chrome (both highly toxic, the latter a carcinogen as well!).
The key to achieving a good-looking and adherent coating is properly cleaning the item you wish to plate.
Personally, I think even the cheapest nickel-plating Caswell sells is too expensive, knowing what the chemicals are. There is plenty of online info on what you need, basically a water-soluble nickel salt like nickel sulfate, dilute sulfuric acid, nickel electrodes, a power supply and an acid-proof container. One of those coil-type water heaters-on-a-handle also might be needed, too. Some agitation to keep the solution evenly distributed, like an aquarium aerator, would improve the results.
The coating probably won't come out of the bath all nice and shiny, probably more like a matte finish. You'd need to use a buffer wheel to polish it to a shine -- if that's needed.
If this doesn't suit your fancy there should be some local shops that do small items like yours, of course for a fee.
Nickel isn't too difficult to plate, particularly on a brass substrate. There are quite a few DIY videos out there that describe how to do it. Caswell sells kits, ranging from basic (l$$) on up to $$$$. Nickel plating is very robust, and the chemicals needed to plate it aren't in the "lethal" category, although you still want to wear gloves and eye protection when mixing up the chemicals. Chrome plating is a different story, so is gold. Those typically use the really nasty chemicals like cyanide and hexavalent chrome (both highly toxic, the latter a carcinogen as well!).
The key to achieving a good-looking and adherent coating is properly cleaning the item you wish to plate.
Personally, I think even the cheapest nickel-plating Caswell sells is too expensive, knowing what the chemicals are. There is plenty of online info on what you need, basically a water-soluble nickel salt like nickel sulfate, dilute sulfuric acid, nickel electrodes, a power supply and an acid-proof container. One of those coil-type water heaters-on-a-handle also might be needed, too. Some agitation to keep the solution evenly distributed, like an aquarium aerator, would improve the results.
The coating probably won't come out of the bath all nice and shiny, probably more like a matte finish. You'd need to use a buffer wheel to polish it to a shine -- if that's needed.
If this doesn't suit your fancy there should be some local shops that do small items like yours, of course for a fee.
Find out the process used to coat bathroom taps, they were usually cast brass, and later in steel.
It is some sort of chrome plating, possibly first layer on metal is copper, or copper / zinc alloy, as a primer layer, then top layer of chrome.
Then the practical aspect of doing it is to be thought of, the chemicals used in plating are hazardous, and process may need temperatures exceeding 75 Celsius.
Best find a plating shop, let them do it, take their advice.
A friend had a hardware shop, next door was a bright chrome plating factory, the color of his cieling fans came off due to the fumes from the plating process.
Keep that in mind.
It is some sort of chrome plating, possibly first layer on metal is copper, or copper / zinc alloy, as a primer layer, then top layer of chrome.
Then the practical aspect of doing it is to be thought of, the chemicals used in plating are hazardous, and process may need temperatures exceeding 75 Celsius.
Best find a plating shop, let them do it, take their advice.
A friend had a hardware shop, next door was a bright chrome plating factory, the color of his cieling fans came off due to the fumes from the plating process.
Keep that in mind.
It's probably easiest to send the part (or drop it off in person) to a plating shop. They can tell you what options they offer. They might even do that sample for free.... (can't hurt to ask). Chrome will change the appearance, gold (over nickel?) might be closer to the brass appearance, nickel as top or only layer is probably too allergenic for bathroom use.
Alternatively, remake it from stainless steel. If 316L is not corrosion resistant enough, get a sheet of that 904L 'oystersteel' from your neighbor Rolex, and remake the shelf from that. (Probably cheaper not to get it from Rolex...)
Alternatively, remake it from stainless steel. If 316L is not corrosion resistant enough, get a sheet of that 904L 'oystersteel' from your neighbor Rolex, and remake the shelf from that. (Probably cheaper not to get it from Rolex...)
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900 series stainless steels are used for marine propellers, among other things, and at least the Rolex watches in that material have a golden like color.
If it works in salt water, it should survive a bathroom.
The cost of finding sheet, and shipment, bending etc. is to be considered.
SS 304 and 316 are commonly used in chemical plant equipment, easily available in comparison, only issue is color.
If it works in salt water, it should survive a bathroom.
The cost of finding sheet, and shipment, bending etc. is to be considered.
SS 304 and 316 are commonly used in chemical plant equipment, easily available in comparison, only issue is color.