My dad is looking to upgrade his old Jensen towers, and wants something with that same large woofer (15" in this case) sound and feel. I'm trying to talk him out of buying the BIC RtR-15, swearing up and down that I can do better DIY in the same general price ballpark (call it $300 ish a tower).
So, how do I do better? Ideally I'd like to find a 3-way design from someone who knows what they're doing, using a 12" or 15" woofer. This will be heavily biased towards music, and the ability to perform without a subwoofer would be a neat bonus if it can be done. (Might be willing to expand the price tag in order to pull that trick off.) These will be passive and receiver powered, and eventually we'd like to drive five identical towers off the receiver so available power levels will be moderate.
Oh and I am quite substantially tooled up for woodworking so I don't need a flat pack or anything. Just need to get the drivers, xover, and misc hardware for around 300.
So, how do I do better? Ideally I'd like to find a 3-way design from someone who knows what they're doing, using a 12" or 15" woofer. This will be heavily biased towards music, and the ability to perform without a subwoofer would be a neat bonus if it can be done. (Might be willing to expand the price tag in order to pull that trick off.) These will be passive and receiver powered, and eventually we'd like to drive five identical towers off the receiver so available power levels will be moderate.
Oh and I am quite substantially tooled up for woodworking so I don't need a flat pack or anything. Just need to get the drivers, xover, and misc hardware for around 300.
Paul Carmody's Tarkus.
You can double up the Peerless tens in series(double the volume too), and have the same sound level.
A simple impedance adjustment(double coil values, halve caps) will keep the sound balance between bass and mid/treble.
Just keep the bass section width within about 10-15% of Paul's.
Your woofer surface area will be closer to a 15 than a 12.
It's best to not have to start from scratch on your lowpass filter. The peerless 10's are real gems, and Paul's filter is simple and good.
Good luck! and let's be careful out there.
You can double up the Peerless tens in series(double the volume too), and have the same sound level.
A simple impedance adjustment(double coil values, halve caps) will keep the sound balance between bass and mid/treble.
Just keep the bass section width within about 10-15% of Paul's.
Your woofer surface area will be closer to a 15 than a 12.
It's best to not have to start from scratch on your lowpass filter. The peerless 10's are real gems, and Paul's filter is simple and good.
Good luck! and let's be careful out there.
What percentage of your time do you listen to front 2-channel stereo audio(music + video) vs. a 5 or 7 channel surround sound movie? Have you discussed adjusting your budget to say 50% front stereo pair, and 50% for the 5-HT surround sound speakers?
With a $2000 total 7 speaker budget, would you get greater enjoyment with a $550/speaker front stereo design? No subwoofer required.
With a $2000 total 7 speaker budget, would you get greater enjoyment with a $550/speaker front stereo design? No subwoofer required.
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I like these quite a bit, might even just build them as specified. [Edit] Booo the tweeters are out of stock until the end of June. Not a deal killer, but very annoying.
Final goal is (maybe) to have a completely symmetric system for five channel SACD. I didn't set the parameters on that one, I'm just trying to avoid him buying those absurd BIC towers.
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If you sell these speakers for <100 bucks each, the drivers have to be less than 10 bucks each to make a profit. All signs point to very cheap drivers, the bass having 15" and foam surrounds (which crumble after ~3-7 yrs) will surely have a tiny magnet and a very high Qts, which results in a very boomy, unprecise bass. Impressive at first glance but that wears off very quickly. Minimal crossover likely consisting of just 1st order filters. Yes, they can get probably loud but they will sound terrible.
Don't buy speakers you haven't heard! EVER!
If you want to be the 'cheap party-animal', go for it. If you've got any sound-wise standards, stay away from these as far as you can.
Yes I agree but I don't believe the OP can build better as cheaply or even double simply because the DIY drivers are comparatively more expensive as are XO parts etc
Better ? Probably, but cheap and better ?
I take it that BIC quality has fallen though the floor since I bought my turntable and spare speakers 40 years ago
For sure quality has fallen somewhat over decades, but after reading some reviews over on AVS, Audiokarma for this model combined with some experience with BIC Venturi and Jensen tower speakers, at $200/ea. delivered to my doorstep I'm inclined not to dismiss them out of hand as some of the Jensens seemed no better than inexpensive mobile audio systems stuck in a pretty box.
GM
GM
Although more modern designs have given way to slimmer, tower speakers that take up less valuable living space, there’s still not much that can compete with large format woofers reinforced with close to the floor placement like your dads old Jensens.
If you’re talking $300 per speaker, sure......it can easily be done and done very very well. $300 per pair is a tall order for a DIY effort as there’s performance value to give all the DIY effort equal value.
Given your eventual goal of a complete surround system of identical speakers, a 12” two way system might be a better consideration. It’s an important distinction to point out that newer technology has allowed for 12” woofers that do dig deep......as deep as larger drivers yet extend high enough to work with compression drivers. Some of the best, most dynamic designs I’ve ever heard were 12” two ways. 3ways not only pose a design challenge but also the added cost of very expensive crossover components for the low pass and the midrange driver.
If you’re talking $300 per speaker, sure......it can easily be done and done very very well. $300 per pair is a tall order for a DIY effort as there’s performance value to give all the DIY effort equal value.
Given your eventual goal of a complete surround system of identical speakers, a 12” two way system might be a better consideration. It’s an important distinction to point out that newer technology has allowed for 12” woofers that do dig deep......as deep as larger drivers yet extend high enough to work with compression drivers. Some of the best, most dynamic designs I’ve ever heard were 12” two ways. 3ways not only pose a design challenge but also the added cost of very expensive crossover components for the low pass and the midrange driver.
$300 per each individual tower. The BICs are retailed at $200 each. I feel like I should be able to do something with that budget. As far as two way designs, my experience with large woofer plus compression driver systems is that they sound too much like live reinforcement systems and I really don't love how they tend to handle the mid frequencies. It's almost like the ranges that I want to be the cleanest are right in the worst part of the crossover region? I don't know if that makes sense.
The Tarkus is a hundred and change for the drivers, seems like I would be at around $150 for all the parts and then it's just wood. That's not too shabby. It's not a 15, but maybe that's okay with a modern driver.
Yes, ideally the 250-2500 Hz phone BW needs to be a single driver with enough extra top/bottom extension for the XOs, a tall order when wanting high peak SPL too, so wound up initially adding an 800 Hz XO at ~the half power point in their studio, etc., 12-15" 2 way monitors, small cinema systems.
GM
GM
If you have to buy the drivers, wood, crossover parts and small parts you will find it actually pretty hard to build a 3-way speaker with a 15" bass and a reasonable good sound. To expect that just because the BIC speakers are that cheap is quite unreasonable. The BIC will not sound great in the midrange and highs, the tweeter is not a compression driver, it's either a cone or a piezo.
-> Amazon.com: BIC AMERICA RTR-EV15 15-Inch 3-Way Eviction Series Bi-Ampable Floor Speaker with High-Efficiency Horn Tweeter: Home Audio & Theater
Uh, yeah, must be a great sound if it improves by disconnecting the mid driver. 🙄
I would simply forget about the price of these, they are bad and in no way a reference to build something which is supposed to sound good.
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