Hi Members,
I bought last week a pair of Kef speakers, type 105.
Type SP1059 is mentioned..but furthermore I might had done a little bit more research before buying them (read: older speaker/ availability of parts)......(hopefully I attached the pictures correctly)
I still need to pick up these (most likely next week) and would be nice if you are able to give me some information:
- Which series are these 105 series 2 ??
- I will listen to these (most likely) next week.. what are the main point of attention (besides not blown up woofers or other strange noises)
- Cross over filter - needs to be recapped ?
- It seems like a relative original speakers, most likely I will try to refurbish them cosmetic - any good (online) stores for parts ?
Much appreciated,
Grtz., Maarten.
I bought last week a pair of Kef speakers, type 105.
Type SP1059 is mentioned..but furthermore I might had done a little bit more research before buying them (read: older speaker/ availability of parts)......(hopefully I attached the pictures correctly)
I still need to pick up these (most likely next week) and would be nice if you are able to give me some information:
- Which series are these 105 series 2 ??
- I will listen to these (most likely) next week.. what are the main point of attention (besides not blown up woofers or other strange noises)
- Cross over filter - needs to be recapped ?
- It seems like a relative original speakers, most likely I will try to refurbish them cosmetic - any good (online) stores for parts ?
Much appreciated,
Grtz., Maarten.
Attachments
Very nice speaker by reputation, I hope they sound good to you.
Looks like they might not need more than new grills. Parts aren't usually available new for that vintage KEF but grills aren't too hard to make. I've never seen the 105, so not sure if the surrounds are butyl rubber or foam, if foam they'll probably need replacement which isn't too hard. I don't believe that the T52 tweeter in the 105 is ferrofluid cooled, but if so it's a simple job to clean out and replace.
I've rebuilt two pairs of 104/2, including new Falcon capacitor sets, and would not spend the time and money again as the originals were of very good quality and I couldn't hear a difference. The 105s and your ears may be different, but that's something to consider.
Looks like they might not need more than new grills. Parts aren't usually available new for that vintage KEF but grills aren't too hard to make. I've never seen the 105, so not sure if the surrounds are butyl rubber or foam, if foam they'll probably need replacement which isn't too hard. I don't believe that the T52 tweeter in the 105 is ferrofluid cooled, but if so it's a simple job to clean out and replace.
I've rebuilt two pairs of 104/2, including new Falcon capacitor sets, and would not spend the time and money again as the originals were of very good quality and I couldn't hear a difference. The 105s and your ears may be different, but that's something to consider.
What is your country of location so that we can recommend handy suppliers of parts?
Details of speaker are here: Reference Series 105 SP1059 Speaker-P KEF Electronics ,
Details of speaker are here: Reference Series 105 SP1059 Speaker-P KEF Electronics ,
Brochure and manual here -
105
KEF - Reference Series Model 105 (1977-79) - United States
105.2 (SP1118) has “series II” on the rear plate.
KEF - Reference Series Model 105.2 (1979-87) - United States
Hifishark will give you and idea of current prices.
Used KEF 105 Loudspeakers for Sale | HifiShark.com
Depending on where you are Wilmslow Audio in U.K. have good knowledge and often spares for older Kef models.
Good luck, nice project.
105
KEF - Reference Series Model 105 (1977-79) - United States
105.2 (SP1118) has “series II” on the rear plate.
KEF - Reference Series Model 105.2 (1979-87) - United States
Hifishark will give you and idea of current prices.
Used KEF 105 Loudspeakers for Sale | HifiShark.com
Depending on where you are Wilmslow Audio in U.K. have good knowledge and often spares for older Kef models.
Good luck, nice project.
I sold 105s brand new. V1 thou. XOs have some cheap parts in them so there is some work can be done there. Lots of other small improvements one can do to lift them out of the muddled mess they do with small details.
A nice starting point.
dave
A nice starting point.
dave
Hi,
First Class Engineering, the drawbacks are: old and 'cheap' parts inside?, old(used and also using older technology) drivers, etc.
The speaker's topology is still valid today I believe and using the same topology with Modern drivers and new and modern parts these speakers(redesign of x-over required) will compete with the best in the market.
First Class Engineering, the drawbacks are: old and 'cheap' parts inside?, old(used and also using older technology) drivers, etc.
The speaker's topology is still valid today I believe and using the same topology with Modern drivers and new and modern parts these speakers(redesign of x-over required) will compete with the best in the market.
I have seen an older picture of Gaincell with X-over modification/ re-build for this speaker.
/archive/gallery/data/1501/medium/KEF105_1_Mod_z.jpg
Unfortunatelly he is not active for years.
Sounds very interesting besides to have a look who has done the refurbishment of the cabinets
/archive/gallery/data/1501/medium/KEF105_1_Mod_z.jpg
Unfortunatelly he is not active for years.
Sounds very interesting besides to have a look who has done the refurbishment of the cabinets
Cool speakers! Woofer dust caps looks dented and they seems to have been stored in a none heated storehouse based on the look on metal parts and some cracks in some wood
These are Mk 1's. Mk2 had B300's front mounted. The dustcaps of the woofers have been pushed in obviously. The B110's often do last long, but try pushing surrounds gently to feel if they've become brittle or hard. All cone units should move freely when pushed.
For spare parts try the Dutch diy speaker shops like speakerland, rumoh or others. When drivers fail try falcon acoustics in the UK.
For spare parts try the Dutch diy speaker shops like speakerland, rumoh or others. When drivers fail try falcon acoustics in the UK.
AsKrypton,
Initially, you may want to repair/upgrade the Kef105 you bought, that is fine, listen to them for a while. After you are tired of them(you will) you may want to venture further by changing/replacing all the drivers from your Kef and redesign your cross-over while maintaining your speakers' topology by retaining the cabinet(BTW saves a lot of money this way too). I am confident you will gain the following:
1. Much improvements in spkrs Clarity
2. Improve speakers dynamics
3. More open sound
and many more attributes.
Basically, you are owning a 'brand new set of speakers' with not much outlay. BTW there are many experts here to help to redesign your new acquisition. They will last for many years. Only time and labour are your enemies.
Just my thoughts. Good luck.
Initially, you may want to repair/upgrade the Kef105 you bought, that is fine, listen to them for a while. After you are tired of them(you will) you may want to venture further by changing/replacing all the drivers from your Kef and redesign your cross-over while maintaining your speakers' topology by retaining the cabinet(BTW saves a lot of money this way too). I am confident you will gain the following:
1. Much improvements in spkrs Clarity
2. Improve speakers dynamics
3. More open sound
and many more attributes.
Basically, you are owning a 'brand new set of speakers' with not much outlay. BTW there are many experts here to help to redesign your new acquisition. They will last for many years. Only time and labour are your enemies.
Just my thoughts. Good luck.
Old Kef reference are good speakers.
First things you must do is to gently dismantle the tweeter if it is a ferro fluided that have dried. 15 GBP fot two drivers.
Then try to vaccum the bass dust cap that suffered to give it again its shape.
Then try to measure the capacitors when you will have some time...Falcon Acoustic have some values. You can for instance try to swap the medium serie caps to see what you hear and if the resistance serie of the former caps has increased too much.
First things you must do is to gently dismantle the tweeter if it is a ferro fluided that have dried. 15 GBP fot two drivers.
Then try to vaccum the bass dust cap that suffered to give it again its shape.
Then try to measure the capacitors when you will have some time...Falcon Acoustic have some values. You can for instance try to swap the medium serie caps to see what you hear and if the resistance serie of the former caps has increased too much.
Rather than using hardware xover it may be easier to use off the shelf DSP, MiniDsp. It is quite cheap now. Actually, I don't owning these speakers or similar type however my place does have enough space to house them. They should sound excellent once you finish with them.
Good thinking about the MiniDsp..i hope to get the speakers this week, let's see from there. I don't think that they will replace my current speakers set.
J
J
I rebuilt a pair of R105 several years ago. My domes were in a much worse condition and took a lot of work to fill gaps, sand, prime and paint.
The crossovers from that era seem to show noticeable drift in the capacitors and they will really benefit from a recap. As KEF told, they matched the parts and drivers and that certainly has expired for these so best bet is to aim for the nominal values on the capacitors.
The bass enclosures do have a diagonal brace back to front but not cross-bracing between panels. Also, they have pieces of bitumen sheets in places, but that has hardened perhaps to the point of ringing. I carefully removed these pieces on mine and glued fresh pieces to the side and back panels. 2 layers of 3mm bitumen sheet.
Also, one weak point is the binding posts on the domes and the fuse holders. Corrosion needs to be removed or the fuse holders replaced with fresh. I've read about some opinions about removing the fuses altogether. I, personally, wouldn't go that far.
The T52 isn't ferro-fluid cooled, so one less point to worry about. The B110 IS NOT the SP1003 that is very common but the less widely available SP1257. There is some difference between the two. A slight but audible one.
The B300 is pretty robust in this series and you might need to rotate it 180 degrees, if they have been stored idling for years.
It appears that they don't come with the hoods. That's a shame and a blessing. If you work on the cosmetics, you can re-finish the domes and bass enclosures so they are presentable.
There should be a thick (~1inch) foam pad on the top of the bass enclosure around the dome. Better to make one for them as I would consider the reflections to make audible contributions.
Once my pair's restoration was complete, they became my main speakers and I thought I'd never replace them. That is, until I finished with a pair of R107.
The crossovers from that era seem to show noticeable drift in the capacitors and they will really benefit from a recap. As KEF told, they matched the parts and drivers and that certainly has expired for these so best bet is to aim for the nominal values on the capacitors.
The bass enclosures do have a diagonal brace back to front but not cross-bracing between panels. Also, they have pieces of bitumen sheets in places, but that has hardened perhaps to the point of ringing. I carefully removed these pieces on mine and glued fresh pieces to the side and back panels. 2 layers of 3mm bitumen sheet.
Also, one weak point is the binding posts on the domes and the fuse holders. Corrosion needs to be removed or the fuse holders replaced with fresh. I've read about some opinions about removing the fuses altogether. I, personally, wouldn't go that far.
The T52 isn't ferro-fluid cooled, so one less point to worry about. The B110 IS NOT the SP1003 that is very common but the less widely available SP1257. There is some difference between the two. A slight but audible one.
The B300 is pretty robust in this series and you might need to rotate it 180 degrees, if they have been stored idling for years.
It appears that they don't come with the hoods. That's a shame and a blessing. If you work on the cosmetics, you can re-finish the domes and bass enclosures so they are presentable.
There should be a thick (~1inch) foam pad on the top of the bass enclosure around the dome. Better to make one for them as I would consider the reflections to make audible contributions.
Once my pair's restoration was complete, they became my main speakers and I thought I'd never replace them. That is, until I finished with a pair of R107.
Just curious to learn:and how do y'all plan to re-create/copy the original LP/BP/HP transfer functions of the 105 filter the into MiniDSP?
Yes they matched the caps with inductances. I surmise it was less precise than furthest 104 ref and 107 ref that were newet design with computer matched filters to spec the reference prototype and the two speakers being 0.5% match. It will be interesting to know the fab date marked somewhere in the loudspeaker...mark I iirc was very early 80s...maybe the caps precision matters a little less in the filter design...dunno.
A good test is to swap the serie caps with mid and also the bass unit // caps...if the fresh ones give more dry and snap, no doubt the speakerd needs a measurment and a recap.
LLmarked caps are for low loss and the kef caps should be swapped for the Alcap.
If Falcon acoustic has a 2 or 5 % matched set you will save time and monney cause the matching already made...Often rhe lythics advertised 5% precision are more above 10%...a mess.
A good test is to swap the serie caps with mid and also the bass unit // caps...if the fresh ones give more dry and snap, no doubt the speakerd needs a measurment and a recap.
LLmarked caps are for low loss and the kef caps should be swapped for the Alcap.
If Falcon acoustic has a 2 or 5 % matched set you will save time and monney cause the matching already made...Often rhe lythics advertised 5% precision are more above 10%...a mess.
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