Dear Audio experts,
I am a audio newbie who got interested in audio recently. May I ask whether a crossover is required for full-range speakers? My guess is that it is not required because a full-range is just a single speaker covering the entire frequency range. There is no twitter, sub-woofer. Correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you.
I am a audio newbie who got interested in audio recently. May I ask whether a crossover is required for full-range speakers? My guess is that it is not required because a full-range is just a single speaker covering the entire frequency range. There is no twitter, sub-woofer. Correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you.
helpme,
You might want to know that your driver it's the same (acoustic/electric parameters) as it's equivalent circuit.
You can make 2-way speakers with minimal crossovers with no practical advantage for the no-crossover speaker, in such a way. Also the frequency of the crossover plays a major role on it's problematics with vocals and others. The same with the phase, very important for accurate reproduction and localization of the source. In a multi-way also the good qualities of a fullrange are looked in for the mid, if we can say so, comparing it in that way.
But you are right the short answer is no.
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-4424g00.pdf
You might want to know that your driver it's the same (acoustic/electric parameters) as it's equivalent circuit.
You can make 2-way speakers with minimal crossovers with no practical advantage for the no-crossover speaker, in such a way. Also the frequency of the crossover plays a major role on it's problematics with vocals and others. The same with the phase, very important for accurate reproduction and localization of the source. In a multi-way also the good qualities of a fullrange are looked in for the mid, if we can say so, comparing it in that way.
But you are right the short answer is no.
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-4424g00.pdf
Attachments
What dave was saying is that a "filter" circuit is sometimes used to correct for non-flat anomalies in the "full range" speaker's response.
Having said that, it is good to realize that most "full range" speakers are in fact somewhat less than ideally full range, especially in the LF. However there are some clever loading (box designs) methods that can make them surprisingly respectable, albeit at moderate SPLs.
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Having said that, it is good to realize that most "full range" speakers are in fact somewhat less than ideally full range, especially in the LF. However there are some clever loading (box designs) methods that can make them surprisingly respectable, albeit at moderate SPLs.
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FWIW, in my personal lexicon, a "full range" driver is one that is operated without bandpass filtering - but that may include active or passive circuits for EQ / shaping / impedance compensation whatever you care to call it.
Depending on exactly what your definition is for "full audio range", there are certainly few, if any, single driver systems that would objectively meet the criteria - but many that can be more than musically satisfying when used within their limits. Once you add supporting woofers / super tweeters with separate filters and/or amplifiers, you're really operating a multi-way.
Depending on exactly what your definition is for "full audio range", there are certainly few, if any, single driver systems that would objectively meet the criteria - but many that can be more than musically satisfying when used within their limits. Once you add supporting woofers / super tweeters with separate filters and/or amplifiers, you're really operating a multi-way.
Sometimes to carefully limit a speaker where it's useful response ends is an idea . It could help power handling and lower distortion . If a bit of resistance is added or a choke more might be gained than lost . Playing LP records especailly ( warps ) can be a problem .
I have been trying to work out the inductance of cheap 500 g reels of copper wire . I suspect these might make sensible chokes at low cost . Plastic reels if so . Often the start wire is available to use .
For protective filtering a non polar cap might be used as a quick check . 220 uF 35 V x 5 is circa 20 Hz 8 ohms ( parallel ) . They might sound better than many think and offer simple DC protection . Far better than a fuse . 35 V should be OK .
220uf 35v Non Polarised Capacitor.
I have been trying to work out the inductance of cheap 500 g reels of copper wire . I suspect these might make sensible chokes at low cost . Plastic reels if so . Often the start wire is available to use .
For protective filtering a non polar cap might be used as a quick check . 220 uF 35 V x 5 is circa 20 Hz 8 ohms ( parallel ) . They might sound better than many think and offer simple DC protection . Far better than a fuse . 35 V should be OK .
220uf 35v Non Polarised Capacitor.
Nigel, it is easier to simply measure the inductance rather than calculate it. One can approximate an actual measurement by using a scope, resistor (load) and a signal generator, just look at the -3dB point. Easier still if you have known inductors to compare with.
Otoh, my DVM has an inductance measuring range on it.
😀
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Otoh, my DVM has an inductance measuring range on it.
😀
_-_-
That's what I meant to say . Work out was more like listing . I fancy to buy an inductance meter as it saves time .
I saw one in Maplin in UK . Surprisingly they are less common than I thought . Maplin is usually a bit expensive ( $70 ) . I don't care about accuracy as I have chokes to indicate the trends . Hope the listing is OK below , previous would not open .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HQRP-3-Func...d=1375114284&sr=8-4&keywords=inductance+meter
As the links failed this is what you would see . $30 . Seems very good if spec is met .
I saw one in Maplin in UK . Surprisingly they are less common than I thought . Maplin is usually a bit expensive ( $70 ) . I don't care about accuracy as I have chokes to indicate the trends . Hope the listing is OK below , previous would not open .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HQRP-3-Func...d=1375114284&sr=8-4&keywords=inductance+meter
As the links failed this is what you would see . $30 . Seems very good if spec is met .
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Sorry Help me 54 I don't know your name . I have just bought a pair of these ( 12LTa in fact ) .
BETA 12LT - EMINENCE - EMINENCE BETA-12LT 12" 225W TWIN | CPC
They are just about full range . They do need something almost like a crossover to get the best from them . I will also be careful about bass filtering . Treble filtering also . Then we can equalize the response a little . I will be using an extra bass unit and tweeter . However 90% of the speaker will be this unit . It is very likely I could use just this speaker on it's own ( in a box or on a baffle ) and be very happy . I dare say if very carefully tilted both backwards and inwards almost no correction would be required . The bass filtering might improve mid range qualities whilst removing little or no bass .
Looking at the graphs I think a beginner will understand plenty . This PDF is almost a complete teaching coarse !
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_12LTA_cab.pdf
BETA 12LT - EMINENCE - EMINENCE BETA-12LT 12" 225W TWIN | CPC
They are just about full range . They do need something almost like a crossover to get the best from them . I will also be careful about bass filtering . Treble filtering also . Then we can equalize the response a little . I will be using an extra bass unit and tweeter . However 90% of the speaker will be this unit . It is very likely I could use just this speaker on it's own ( in a box or on a baffle ) and be very happy . I dare say if very carefully tilted both backwards and inwards almost no correction would be required . The bass filtering might improve mid range qualities whilst removing little or no bass .
Looking at the graphs I think a beginner will understand plenty . This PDF is almost a complete teaching coarse !
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_12LTA_cab.pdf
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The 12LTA certainly packs a punch, but this one really needs a tweeter for any reasonable output beyond 8-10K, and needs a largish box to dig very deep
but play loud, my goodness yes
but play loud, my goodness yes
Matt Farley was kind enough to measure my 12LTA I bought from him and a mystery QTC 902.539 ( UK ) 15 inch bass . Some might be interested to see this ? The QTC seems much like the GRS of USA Parts express Qts 1.2 95 dB . Link to where I posted it .
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/200865-sound-quality-vs-measurements-203.html#post3579039
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/200865-sound-quality-vs-measurements-203.html#post3579039
How did he measure them? Different measuring kit measures at different parts of the T/S curves and produce numbers with different levels of usefullness.
dave
dave
He has a gadget , The Eminence data is useful as it tally's with their figures very well .
Ask Matt . I am sure he will say .
http://www.woofertester.com ?
Ask Matt . I am sure he will say .
http://www.woofertester.com ?
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Sans LEAP or LMS data. the Smith & Larson woofer tester is my next choice. It is what i use. Very qwll thot out algorithmically, but will a weak UI.
dave
Here is a link to someone's visaton nobox on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2N9Ej7WnM
A little midbass weak for my tastes, and you hear the climbing 8's response also.
But certainly getting there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2N9Ej7WnM
A little midbass weak for my tastes, and you hear the climbing 8's response also.
But certainly getting there.
Great link . It actually gives an idea . The measurements are not at all bad . See Quads for comparison .
Quad ESL-63 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
I hope to do a square wave test . I doubt it will look as good as the Quads .
I hope the gentleman ( I presume ) who posed the question isn't bored ? He asked a useful one . The Quad is considered a full range speaker .
Quad ESL-63 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
I hope to do a square wave test . I doubt it will look as good as the Quads .
I hope the gentleman ( I presume ) who posed the question isn't bored ? He asked a useful one . The Quad is considered a full range speaker .
Any advice on 15 inch Qts 1.2 and 12 inch Qts 0.5 on a 1220 x 606 baffle ( 4 ' x 2 ' ) .
I suspect 1/3 from floor 15 inch central and 1/3 rd down off centre for 12 inch then finesse ?
60 Hz filter resembling choke response ( including 2 to 10 R + EQ ) . Roll off 180 Hz . Bring in 12 inch 50 hz - 3dB ? Bass is transistor ( 160 watts ) . 12 inch SE valve 8 watts .
I suspect 1/3 from floor 15 inch central and 1/3 rd down off centre for 12 inch then finesse ?
60 Hz filter resembling choke response ( including 2 to 10 R + EQ ) . Roll off 180 Hz . Bring in 12 inch 50 hz - 3dB ? Bass is transistor ( 160 watts ) . 12 inch SE valve 8 watts .
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