Hi,
About 6 years ago, I built Troels Gravesen Audio Technology Classic 3 Way. At the time, the speaker kit used a total of 10 (2 x 5) Jantzen Silver S Caps. I've noticed that now the kit used Alumen Z Caps.
I have always found my hifi system slightly on the bright side, but I have read that the Alumen Z Caps are less bright and sound more natural....I was just curious if anyone here has any experience using them and whether given the high cost of the caps if changing them would bring a significant change to the sound or if they will merely fine-tune the sound.
About 6 years ago, I built Troels Gravesen Audio Technology Classic 3 Way. At the time, the speaker kit used a total of 10 (2 x 5) Jantzen Silver S Caps. I've noticed that now the kit used Alumen Z Caps.
I have always found my hifi system slightly on the bright side, but I have read that the Alumen Z Caps are less bright and sound more natural....I was just curious if anyone here has any experience using them and whether given the high cost of the caps if changing them would bring a significant change to the sound or if they will merely fine-tune the sound.
Nice drivers on that design!
Have you experimented with increasing the tweeter padding resistor?
Some people here are anti-boutique caps vs say on the Audiogon forum.
You should decide for yourself. An economical test would be to temporarily swap in some cheaper caps into the tweeter circuit and see if the sound changes, and if you find it less bright e.g. Audyn Q4 / standard Mundorf M-Cap or Claritycap. If you're in the UK, you might be able to find Ansar caps (ATC uses these in some of their speakers). Then you might decide if much more expensive cap rolling is credible.
If you've not read it https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Have you experimented with increasing the tweeter padding resistor?
Some people here are anti-boutique caps vs say on the Audiogon forum.
You should decide for yourself. An economical test would be to temporarily swap in some cheaper caps into the tweeter circuit and see if the sound changes, and if you find it less bright e.g. Audyn Q4 / standard Mundorf M-Cap or Claritycap. If you're in the UK, you might be able to find Ansar caps (ATC uses these in some of their speakers). Then you might decide if much more expensive cap rolling is credible.
If you've not read it https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
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For a less expensive option, ASC X386 and X387 caps sound great! I also really like the Silvers, bit I've never met a Mundorf Supreme I did not like either..
While I prefer the Silver to the Superior, some don't, but maybe they would suit you better for cheaper than the Alumen or Amber types.
Or add an ohm to the series tweeter resistor first.
While I prefer the Silver to the Superior, some don't, but maybe they would suit you better for cheaper than the Alumen or Amber types.
Or add an ohm to the series tweeter resistor first.
Thanks for the replies. I had previously changed the internal wire from the silver/copper type supplied to 6mm2 copper speaker wire. That helped a bit but in hindsight that was properly a backward step as there was slightly less detail. I've also experimented with the tweeter resistor, and believe I have found the right balance.
Another possibility is that it's my amplifiers - Musical Fidelity Pre amp (FBP A1) and my two monoblocks (550k Superchargers). One of the criticisms of the amplifiers in the Stereophile follow-up review is that they are a bit bright sounding. These are currently being "Upgraded" with John Sampson of JS Audio Repairs.
I'm not sure what he's doing exactly but I believe he is replacing the transformers and capacitors with "audiophile versions" (possibly arizona caps). Hopefully, this makes a positive difference, or have I just wasted my money? ha
Going back to the Alumen caps I guess the real question is, Is it worth spending more money considering the drivers used? When I bought the kit, I went for what I thought was the best drivers for that design speaker. Do they still hold their own? In reality, I can't see myself ever making another DIY speaker or changing my speakers unless a S/H pair of Kef 207/2 or Harbeth monitor 40's came my way for a bargain price (both on my wish list), but I could spend the money on a power supply for my Naim Dac...
Another possibility is that it's my amplifiers - Musical Fidelity Pre amp (FBP A1) and my two monoblocks (550k Superchargers). One of the criticisms of the amplifiers in the Stereophile follow-up review is that they are a bit bright sounding. These are currently being "Upgraded" with John Sampson of JS Audio Repairs.
I'm not sure what he's doing exactly but I believe he is replacing the transformers and capacitors with "audiophile versions" (possibly arizona caps). Hopefully, this makes a positive difference, or have I just wasted my money? ha
Going back to the Alumen caps I guess the real question is, Is it worth spending more money considering the drivers used? When I bought the kit, I went for what I thought was the best drivers for that design speaker. Do they still hold their own? In reality, I can't see myself ever making another DIY speaker or changing my speakers unless a S/H pair of Kef 207/2 or Harbeth monitor 40's came my way for a bargain price (both on my wish list), but I could spend the money on a power supply for my Naim Dac...
It's your money. Your drivers are still amongst the best available to the DIY market period.
Personally, the idea of spending some large reciprocal of the driver value on XO capacitors is not great value for money.
I'd try speaker placement and toe-in first (free); acoustic room treatments second, computer software EQ third.
If you go down the recap your amps, change your amps, cables, power outlet faceplate, it's a slippery slope 😱
I've not heard your amps but did listen to some MF stuff a long time ago and didn't personally think much of them.
Why not just swap in some cheap but decent caps into the tweeter circuit and compare? If you see a difference and/or an improvement, you'll be better informed to splurge on Ambers or Duelunds or Jupiter vibranium virgin olive oil.
Personally, the idea of spending some large reciprocal of the driver value on XO capacitors is not great value for money.
I'd try speaker placement and toe-in first (free); acoustic room treatments second, computer software EQ third.
If you go down the recap your amps, change your amps, cables, power outlet faceplate, it's a slippery slope 😱
I've not heard your amps but did listen to some MF stuff a long time ago and didn't personally think much of them.
Why not just swap in some cheap but decent caps into the tweeter circuit and compare? If you see a difference and/or an improvement, you'll be better informed to splurge on Ambers or Duelunds or Jupiter vibranium virgin olive oil.
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you can try to increase the R value in front of the tweeter (or the L-pad). You also can change the green super Jantzen resistor by a classic wirewound cement.
You also can try for the tweeter filter a SA or CSA caps range from Clarity that are less on the side of the ligth or MKT yellow 1813 serie.
But taming a little with the resistors tips should suffice. Youu can also play with loudspeaker placement if not yet tried (if asymetric tweeter try to swap left and rigth speakers or tur out towards the sides the speakers). Caps will not fix an too brigth highs, if there is a notch there maybe there is a mismatch between the tweeter and the values of the parralel notch, who knows ?
You also can try for the tweeter filter a SA or CSA caps range from Clarity that are less on the side of the ligth or MKT yellow 1813 serie.
But taming a little with the resistors tips should suffice. Youu can also play with loudspeaker placement if not yet tried (if asymetric tweeter try to swap left and rigth speakers or tur out towards the sides the speakers). Caps will not fix an too brigth highs, if there is a notch there maybe there is a mismatch between the tweeter and the values of the parralel notch, who knows ?
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They are expensive quality drivers and are capable of exposing the quality of the crossover components. Caps audyn tri reference awsome i use have no desire to upgrade to anything better?. Wire use neotech upocc stranded copper also very gd. Resistors there is only one the mundorf 30watt ultra foils amazing.gd luck and enjoy the journey.
I looked over the design (again) and unless you listen with side-walls more distant than the front/rear, that design will likely sound a bit "hot" with the room's side-wall contribution to net spl at the listening position.
https://www.partsconnexion.com/duel-cast-graphite-resistors.html
It depends on how much you believe these so called quality changes are capable of doing this. Normally they can't do that.
Do you have ring radiator or Be version?
Here is how I see it.
Jantzen Superior and Silver Caps are clear step up in sound quality compared to Bennic etc. They are my standard material I use for my projects. There is not much to complaint for the money. Alumens are better, but the step in SQ is not that high as Bennic -> Superior/Silver. Before spending the money there are few options I would recommend first:
1. What you describe could be caused by more energy in 10k area or 3k area. If you increase R1011 value, it will lower the energy in 10k area.
2. Try to decrease the value of C1021 (if the value is around 6.8uF, lower it by 1-2uF), it will supress 3k area a bit.
These two steps will give you the directions for next, more precise steps.
Here is how I see it.
Jantzen Superior and Silver Caps are clear step up in sound quality compared to Bennic etc. They are my standard material I use for my projects. There is not much to complaint for the money. Alumens are better, but the step in SQ is not that high as Bennic -> Superior/Silver. Before spending the money there are few options I would recommend first:
1. What you describe could be caused by more energy in 10k area or 3k area. If you increase R1011 value, it will lower the energy in 10k area.
2. Try to decrease the value of C1021 (if the value is around 6.8uF, lower it by 1-2uF), it will supress 3k area a bit.
These two steps will give you the directions for next, more precise steps.
I tried changing my superior to silver, i got a little more detail but they where to bright sounding for me so I ended up going back to superior.
Pida,
Yes I have the be tweeter. I messaged troels and he suggested similar to you, experiment with the tweeter resister, which I have and think I've got the best choice. He also suggested disconnecting one of the capacitors
He did recommend I listen to other amps before commiting to upgrading my existing amplifier, which I would agree with, but I've already paid and made the commitment a few weeks ago.
Stepping back, I don't think the problem is with the speakers. I think it's just that they are so revealing they are highlighting sonic traits further down the line.... My gut feeling is its the amplifiers but unless I come into a wedge of cash, I thought my options would be limited to get an increase in sound quality. I don't mind second hand but I'd have to know what I'm buying.
Yes I have the be tweeter. I messaged troels and he suggested similar to you, experiment with the tweeter resister, which I have and think I've got the best choice. He also suggested disconnecting one of the capacitors
He did recommend I listen to other amps before commiting to upgrading my existing amplifier, which I would agree with, but I've already paid and made the commitment a few weeks ago.
Stepping back, I don't think the problem is with the speakers. I think it's just that they are so revealing they are highlighting sonic traits further down the line.... My gut feeling is its the amplifiers but unless I come into a wedge of cash, I thought my options would be limited to get an increase in sound quality. I don't mind second hand but I'd have to know what I'm buying.
True sometimes I prefer the Superior Z over the Silver Z. It all comes down to personal preference.
Give your wife a weekend in a spa and go wild with mattresses in your room or any other large soft materials. If it helps, try to figure out how to sneak them in as decorative items...