So I was in local hardware store yesterday and saw some laminated hardwood. They are still real wood expect they've been "glued" together.
Saw various types like bubinga, acacia and others.
Can these be use for speaker cabinets? Thinking of using it for the top, front and sides.
Thanks
(I bought one last night to use as a shelf and it's around 4ft (L) x 1ft (W) x .75in (thickness)
Other bigger sizes are available. Thanks
Saw various types like bubinga, acacia and others.
Can these be use for speaker cabinets? Thinking of using it for the top, front and sides.
Thanks
(I bought one last night to use as a shelf and it's around 4ft (L) x 1ft (W) x .75in (thickness)
Other bigger sizes are available. Thanks
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Last year I built two projects from 1" thick laminated oak boards. The boards are sold as "stair treads" by the big box stores here in the US.
A pair of 8" MTM and 10" subs. The only slight issue I had was some minor cracking which developed in the dry winter months. I used a danish oil finish which probably wasn't heavy enough to prevent the wood from further drying. I think a varnish finish would avoid this.
Otherwise, the laminated oak is very rigid, quite heavy, and it does sound good. It's also nice to not worry about ruining the thin veneer that's found on plywood.
More info in post#3443 on page 173 in the System Pictures and Descriptions sticky thread and #204, page 11 in the Sub gallery.
A pair of 8" MTM and 10" subs. The only slight issue I had was some minor cracking which developed in the dry winter months. I used a danish oil finish which probably wasn't heavy enough to prevent the wood from further drying. I think a varnish finish would avoid this.
Otherwise, the laminated oak is very rigid, quite heavy, and it does sound good. It's also nice to not worry about ruining the thin veneer that's found on plywood.
More info in post#3443 on page 173 in the System Pictures and Descriptions sticky thread and #204, page 11 in the Sub gallery.
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Yes... But, you have to be smart about it.
Pick a wood species that has a lower level of expansion/contraction. I remember that white oak has a lot of dimensional change, and hard maple has little, but other than that I don't remember. I am sure you can google it.
Apply a "thick" finish, one that seals the pores and slows down the migration of moisture into and out of the wood. A rubbed oil finish or a wax finish will not do this. 4 layers of polyurethane varnish will. A sprayed catalyzed lacquer will.
Apply the finish to all sides of all panels. Yes this means finishing the inside of the speaker. The inside does not have to be cosmetically correct, but it needs to be sealed. A layer of paint would be excellent for this.
Both temperature and humidity have an effect on expansion, but humidity is a bigger effect. Keep the speaker in a temperature / humidity controlled environment, just as you would a high quality guitar or piano.
So, where did you find / buy this? Do they have a website & do the ship?
Not really.
Absolutely different grain structure, fiber orientation and structural integrity.
To make plywood you cut a looonnngggg thin foil from a tree trunk, following a spiral path inwards, "as if you were peeling an orange",and cutting saw orientation, which is tangential, changes all the time, by definition, because of the path it follows.
While here you cut true wood boards and glue them together, completely different.
Saw cuts end to end keeping orientation all the time.
Absolutely different grain structure, fiber orientation and structural integrity.
To make plywood you cut a looonnngggg thin foil from a tree trunk, following a spiral path inwards, "as if you were peeling an orange",and cutting saw orientation, which is tangential, changes all the time, by definition, because of the path it follows.
While here you cut true wood boards and glue them together, completely different.
Saw cuts end to end keeping orientation all the time.
only because the pic I posted is a thick piece. The one I bought for shelves is definitely not "plied" wood. Looking at it, it seems only 1 layer but pieces of wood glued together.
I edited first post to use a pic that better represents what I saw.
In case anybody's interested, this is the stuff I used...
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stairte...shed-Red-Oak-Tread-BTRO1142/202019901#overlay
I had to glue some together to get the width needed for the subs.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stairte...shed-Red-Oak-Tread-BTRO1142/202019901#overlay
I had to glue some together to get the width needed for the subs.
Use this "laminated wood" to encase a regular MDF box by glueing it on or laminate the natural wood with MDF or other particle board and build from this compound board.
Any carpenter will warn you that these boards are very prone to warping.
Painting them from the inside and outside is a very theoretical approach which is not guaranteed to work and can heavily backfire.
Any carpenter will warn you that these boards are very prone to warping.
Painting them from the inside and outside is a very theoretical approach which is not guaranteed to work and can heavily backfire.
That shows the same technique Bernie uses, creating a “sheet” by gluing strips together. Stabiler than a single solid plank.
dave
As far as I'm aware, no finish exists that will completely eliminate seasonal wood movement. Finishes will only slow down moisture exchange.
It's important to note that wood movement is not the same in every direction. Wood is actually very stable longitudinally (along the grain), but not so stable in the radial and tangential directions.
These panels appear to be edge-glued, meaning full-thickness boards are glued edge-to-edge and end-to-end to make a panel of the desired dimensions. Since the grain is all going the same direction, the dimensional stability should be similar to a solid board.
Plywood is cross-banded, meaning that the grain direction alternates with each ply. The longitudinally-oriented plies in a given direction will largely constrain the movement of the tangentially-oriented plies, so you end up with a board that is relatively stable in two directions (length and width along the face) rather than just one for solid wood. In addition, any movement that does occur will be similar in both directions. This is why you don't really have to worry about wood movement with plywood cabinets. The thickness is not so stable, but that doesn't usually matter.
It may also be worth mentioning that the stiffness of solid wood is considerably different in the longitudinal and tangential or radial directions. Plywood is similar in both directions along its face.
So, unless I've missed something, constructing a cabinet with these edge-glued panels would require the same considerations as with solid wood. You could very easily use it for the sides, top, and bottom, but using it for the baffle and rear face may (read: probably will, especially for larger cabinets) require some thought toward dealing with the cross-grain movement that will occur.
It's important to note that wood movement is not the same in every direction. Wood is actually very stable longitudinally (along the grain), but not so stable in the radial and tangential directions.
These panels appear to be edge-glued, meaning full-thickness boards are glued edge-to-edge and end-to-end to make a panel of the desired dimensions. Since the grain is all going the same direction, the dimensional stability should be similar to a solid board.
Plywood is cross-banded, meaning that the grain direction alternates with each ply. The longitudinally-oriented plies in a given direction will largely constrain the movement of the tangentially-oriented plies, so you end up with a board that is relatively stable in two directions (length and width along the face) rather than just one for solid wood. In addition, any movement that does occur will be similar in both directions. This is why you don't really have to worry about wood movement with plywood cabinets. The thickness is not so stable, but that doesn't usually matter.
It may also be worth mentioning that the stiffness of solid wood is considerably different in the longitudinal and tangential or radial directions. Plywood is similar in both directions along its face.
So, unless I've missed something, constructing a cabinet with these edge-glued panels would require the same considerations as with solid wood. You could very easily use it for the sides, top, and bottom, but using it for the baffle and rear face may (read: probably will, especially for larger cabinets) require some thought toward dealing with the cross-grain movement that will occur.
My comments were based on a panel made up of 3 layers, with the center layer running at a right angles to the outer layer... as shown in the original post photo. A panel made up of a single layer of edge glued strips may, or may not work for a speaker box... but I have my doubts.
I bought a pair of these but I am going to glue the panel to some 16mm Chipboard before I rout it etc. It looks great but they can have glue separation issues after a while.
Species is the local Alpine Ash [Eucalyptus Regnans] but the panels are made in China.
Species is the local Alpine Ash [Eucalyptus Regnans] but the panels are made in China.
I use these boards for layered CNC horn construction. It looks pretty good. I tried to use some for box construction and the boards I used definitely have some tendency to bend, some of them not being really flat from the beginning.
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Better off cutting hardwood into thick veneers and gluing it to a suitable substrate
Absolutely spot on. No finish - other than perhaps marine epoxy - truly prevents moisture absorption and loss in wood. And wood moves. In July I completed three boxes for a juried craft show that I needed to drop off in August. I took them from my shop to my non air conditioned basement and let them sit for three weeks, then checked them. One box where the lid sits inside was too snug where it had been a 'nice' fit previously. The cause: the 1.5" wide rails had expanded enough to bind. A quick hand plan and refinish corrected that. Another box, had a drawer which previously slid nicely into place, was now sticking because the drawer front again expanded enough to bind.
In both these cases I was dealing with dimensionally stable hardwoods - maple and African mahogany respectively - which were no wider than 2". My shop is relatively 'dry' due to all the rough lumber stacked inside, and our summer had some hot and unusually humid days though nothing like Eastern Canada or the US would experience.
I would never attempt to build a speaker cabinet out of solid wood, it will create issues. Furniture can get away with solid panels because, when designed properly, the panels aren't constrained as they are in a speaker cabinet.
The glued up panels mentioned above aren't made that way to mitigate movement, or to be more stable. They're made because wide panels of hardwood are now very expensive and glueing up narrow pieces is an economic alternative.
They are very pretty however and looks are important to some people.
Marine plywood of the same thickness would have been 4 times the cost and I thought I could afford $30- a panel for the good looks, perhaps this discussion will change my mind and I won't use them but I did think that glueing to a reasonable stable substrate would assist
Marine plywood of the same thickness would have been 4 times the cost and I thought I could afford $30- a panel for the good looks, perhaps this discussion will change my mind and I won't use them but I did think that glueing to a reasonable stable substrate would assist
You certainly can use solid boards or the edge-glued panels—you just have to be careful about where and how you use them. Like I said, wood is quite stable along the grain, but not across the grain. You don't want to glue an unstable edge to a stable edge, so using solid boards or edge-glued panels for all six faces is likely to be problematic. However, if you use these panels for only four faces, with the grain running around the perimeter, you should then be able to use plywood (perhaps with a nice veneer or painted with a contrasting color) for the final two opposing faces without significant problems.