Hello,
I have have been using a DJ mixer as pre-amp with phono. I do have something better sounding, Copland CTA-301 tube pre, but I need to use the DJ mixer (ECLER Nuo 3) -- may sound strange, long story.
I am looking for someone who can analyze the schematic of my ECLER mixer (which I have), and have the knowledge and experience to tell me if it is possible to improve on it, if it is worth doing, locate the weak links in the circuit that are degrading the sound. The goal -- to get better sound out of this mixer.
I am in Chicago. Let me know if you know of someone serious, someone who can do this properly and responsibly. Either locally or remotely.
thanks,
Herman
I have have been using a DJ mixer as pre-amp with phono. I do have something better sounding, Copland CTA-301 tube pre, but I need to use the DJ mixer (ECLER Nuo 3) -- may sound strange, long story.
I am looking for someone who can analyze the schematic of my ECLER mixer (which I have), and have the knowledge and experience to tell me if it is possible to improve on it, if it is worth doing, locate the weak links in the circuit that are degrading the sound. The goal -- to get better sound out of this mixer.
I am in Chicago. Let me know if you know of someone serious, someone who can do this properly and responsibly. Either locally or remotely.
thanks,
Herman
This has lots of op amps and coupling capacitors in the signal path. It's one big weak link. You could replace all the many deteriorated coupling and supply capacitors, but that's a lot of work.
As Rayma has pointed out that's a lot of opamps, and electrolytic coupling caps. Not only that, they are surface mount which makes it even more difficult.
Then you have tone controls and those cheap slide pots. Looks like the phono eq is designed to give a bit of a bass hump as well. All in all not a good candidate for upgrading. The end result will probably be a disappointment given the amount of work involved. It will never sound anywhere near as good as your Copland.
Can I ask why you need to put the DJ mixer in your system?
Then you have tone controls and those cheap slide pots. Looks like the phono eq is designed to give a bit of a bass hump as well. All in all not a good candidate for upgrading. The end result will probably be a disappointment given the amount of work involved. It will never sound anywhere near as good as your Copland.
Can I ask why you need to put the DJ mixer in your system?
So it seems you have found the Ecler service schematic to look at already!
I play records and mix them for myself and the dj mixer is very handy for that. That is why I would prefer to have a mixer/preamp rather than a dedicated single channel pre like Copland.
Surprisingly, the Ecler is not bad sounding, just not great, a bit mechanical. For example the power supply -- is worth upgrading or putting into a separate chassis?
Herman
I play records and mix them for myself and the dj mixer is very handy for that. That is why I would prefer to have a mixer/preamp rather than a dedicated single channel pre like Copland.
Surprisingly, the Ecler is not bad sounding, just not great, a bit mechanical. For example the power supply -- is worth upgrading or putting into a separate chassis?
Herman
I upgraded a discrete parts disco mixer to produce decent sound by 1. replacing the hissy 4558 op amps with ST33078's in TE connectivity phosphor bronze sockets 2. installing power supply disk bypass caps close to the LP 50x gain op amps and op amp feedback resistor disk caps (33 pf) to eliminate the oscillation of the previous 3. separating the rings of the RCA jack panel from the case with o-rings 4. disconnecting the whole humming 120 VAC power circuit, with the transformer and switch right next to the 50x phono circuit. I replaced it with a wall transformer and an internal choke-e-cap-zener diode board built on insulating board. 5. I also converted the mono dynamic mike input into another low gain mono input for FM radio.
For details see this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...improving-disco-mixer-mid-fi-performance.html
It sounds good enough I don't use my 120 W Dynaco PAS2 preamp any more to listen to records. I can leave all inputs turned up and just change from CD to LP to FM radio by inserting media and starting the device up, and don't need to walk around the piano and switch a selector switch.
I would say upgrading a surface mount device would require board making capability, which I don't have. Perhaps you could find an Herald RA-88a like mine, with soldered connections and discrete parts. Or maybe purchase an old Peavey disco mixer with discrete parts. Numarks I've seen pictures of on here are surface mount and also have ribbon connectors on low level signals, which to me is a reason to never ever buy anything made by Numark. Push connections are so sensitive to oxidation on dry circuits and a definite planned obsolescence feature, about 5 years maybe befor the electrons stop at the oxide.
Peavey doesn't sell an RIAA input mixer any longer, you would have to buy something used. You can download manuals from Peavey to see what you are getting before you buy something used. Also Peavey.com has an internal site forum to ask the question "Is this surface mount" and "does this have ribbon connectors" before you buy. You could also post there and find out the model # of the obsolete disco mixer. Good luck, craigslist here has dozens of numark and behringer mixers for sale, and no Peavey disco mixers. I did buy a 1998 model Peavey Unity 12 input mike mixer, and the pots and connections seem fine, only the transformer hums audibly (not electrically). I'm using the Unity 12 to record myself playing organ this week: with one Shure KSM27 condensor mike the sound is very like the original, only the mikes are leaving out the sound of the cars and trucks driving by. The $1 dynamic mike on right is probably a super-cardioid and has to have the gain boosted all the way to match the Shure, so that channel hisses a bit. I'm looking around for another bargain cardioid mike, rather than blaming the mixer for the hiss at maximum gain. The Unity uses 4580 op amps, which are one grade up in hiss from a 4558.
Good luck.
For details see this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...improving-disco-mixer-mid-fi-performance.html
It sounds good enough I don't use my 120 W Dynaco PAS2 preamp any more to listen to records. I can leave all inputs turned up and just change from CD to LP to FM radio by inserting media and starting the device up, and don't need to walk around the piano and switch a selector switch.
I would say upgrading a surface mount device would require board making capability, which I don't have. Perhaps you could find an Herald RA-88a like mine, with soldered connections and discrete parts. Or maybe purchase an old Peavey disco mixer with discrete parts. Numarks I've seen pictures of on here are surface mount and also have ribbon connectors on low level signals, which to me is a reason to never ever buy anything made by Numark. Push connections are so sensitive to oxidation on dry circuits and a definite planned obsolescence feature, about 5 years maybe befor the electrons stop at the oxide.
Peavey doesn't sell an RIAA input mixer any longer, you would have to buy something used. You can download manuals from Peavey to see what you are getting before you buy something used. Also Peavey.com has an internal site forum to ask the question "Is this surface mount" and "does this have ribbon connectors" before you buy. You could also post there and find out the model # of the obsolete disco mixer. Good luck, craigslist here has dozens of numark and behringer mixers for sale, and no Peavey disco mixers. I did buy a 1998 model Peavey Unity 12 input mike mixer, and the pots and connections seem fine, only the transformer hums audibly (not electrically). I'm using the Unity 12 to record myself playing organ this week: with one Shure KSM27 condensor mike the sound is very like the original, only the mikes are leaving out the sound of the cars and trucks driving by. The $1 dynamic mike on right is probably a super-cardioid and has to have the gain boosted all the way to match the Shure, so that channel hisses a bit. I'm looking around for another bargain cardioid mike, rather than blaming the mixer for the hiss at maximum gain. The Unity uses 4580 op amps, which are one grade up in hiss from a 4558.
Good luck.
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The question comes down to is it easier to build a no compromise mixer from scratch or to upgrade an existing one. I do not have engineering background. I think with a 50k budget it would be a challenge do design and build a good mixer not to mention the time spent. So I believe it is wiser to take one of promising existing and to improve no holds barred. The dirty work has been done and that is a huge asset saver.
Thanks "indiadajo" for the advice!
I need someone with no prejudice for tubes or solid state including opamps.
So does anyone know the guru for this job?
Thanks "indiadajo" for the advice!
I need someone with no prejudice for tubes or solid state including opamps.
So does anyone know the guru for this job?
With that kind of budget:
How many turntable inputs do you need? RIAA curve (normal turntable bass deemphasis)
Moving magnet cartridge or moving coil?
Do you scratch?
How many CD inputs?
Do you want RCA jack or 1/4 phone plug inputs?
Does your turntable have a ground wire (separate green wire with fork) connected to the the tone arm to exclude hum?
How many voice mike inputs?
Does the voice mike need to voiceover (dominate) the music when keyed?
What mike on device are you using? Switch on the mike or footswitch? Which voice microphone are you using?
Are you using powered speakers? a separate amp to drive the speakers? Does your mixer power your two speakers (usually 200 w/ch or less)
How far away is the amp input from the mixer? What kind of cables do you want? 1/4 phone, or XLR, or RCA jacks?
Do you want a heavy case that won't skid, or a light portable case?
Do you want the case to exclude noise from lamp dimmers and portable 2-way radios? (My RA-88 does now after modification. No more driveby CB radio nut in the music).
Are you okay with a wall-transformer and a power strip to turn it on with a flimsy cord between wall transformer and the mixer?
Or do you want a power supply in the mixer (very expensive feature, requires a separate steel box inside the mixer box)
Do you want slider or rotary pot adjusters?
Do you want pan between turntable 1 and turntable 2?
Do you want pan between CD player 1 and 2 (or computer output 1 and computer 2)
Do you want bass and treble cut and boost controls? or Three band controls including midrange? Do you want boost in addition to cut?
Or do you want an effects loop?
Do you want a footstep elimination switch on the output? (Mine effects the bass a bit, I leave it off usually)
Do you need separate volume control on main PA out? Separate volume control on headphone? separate monitor outs for band speakers with separate volume controls?
Do you want effects like echo, flanger, reverb built in?
Do you want a digital out? (pro mixers now have this, used for digital recording gear)
Do you want a built in compressor so the music is always at the same volume (many computer programs have this built in now)? I'm a hi-fi nut, my RA88a handles 72 db s/n 1812 overture very well from CD source and 55 db source material on LP's.
Ultimate is a special term. My RA88a now produces hiss less than the pilot light on the gas stove, but it is not "ultimate". Grand piano sounds really nice through it, my sign of sonic quality since I have a Steinway piano to calibrate one's ears with.
Tubes have nice distortion curves for guitar amps, but have reliability problems in portable devices due to shock. But, they are impervious to lightning strikes.
Do you want lightning strike protection on the power input? the CD inputs? (not the turntable inputs, you could hear a protector on MM or MC and turntables have to be 6' or less from the mixer).
You want long life pots (the 1998 Peavey rotaries are holding up well, as are the 1996 RA88a sliders).
I bought the RA88a mixer for $15 used and put $25 of parts in it, so it is certainly not "ultimate", but sounds very nice, compared to the badly packaged and low fi original . It has two turntable inputs, a tt1 to tt1 fader, 1 CD input, and a voiceover mike I converted to FM radio input (7VAC from the earphone jack). It has a steel case for radio/hash exclusion, which is a rare feature these days. I added the choke inside to keep these noises from coming on the wires. A very basic little box.
How many turntable inputs do you need? RIAA curve (normal turntable bass deemphasis)
Moving magnet cartridge or moving coil?
Do you scratch?
How many CD inputs?
Do you want RCA jack or 1/4 phone plug inputs?
Does your turntable have a ground wire (separate green wire with fork) connected to the the tone arm to exclude hum?
How many voice mike inputs?
Does the voice mike need to voiceover (dominate) the music when keyed?
What mike on device are you using? Switch on the mike or footswitch? Which voice microphone are you using?
Are you using powered speakers? a separate amp to drive the speakers? Does your mixer power your two speakers (usually 200 w/ch or less)
How far away is the amp input from the mixer? What kind of cables do you want? 1/4 phone, or XLR, or RCA jacks?
Do you want a heavy case that won't skid, or a light portable case?
Do you want the case to exclude noise from lamp dimmers and portable 2-way radios? (My RA-88 does now after modification. No more driveby CB radio nut in the music).
Are you okay with a wall-transformer and a power strip to turn it on with a flimsy cord between wall transformer and the mixer?
Or do you want a power supply in the mixer (very expensive feature, requires a separate steel box inside the mixer box)
Do you want slider or rotary pot adjusters?
Do you want pan between turntable 1 and turntable 2?
Do you want pan between CD player 1 and 2 (or computer output 1 and computer 2)
Do you want bass and treble cut and boost controls? or Three band controls including midrange? Do you want boost in addition to cut?
Or do you want an effects loop?
Do you want a footstep elimination switch on the output? (Mine effects the bass a bit, I leave it off usually)
Do you need separate volume control on main PA out? Separate volume control on headphone? separate monitor outs for band speakers with separate volume controls?
Do you want effects like echo, flanger, reverb built in?
Do you want a digital out? (pro mixers now have this, used for digital recording gear)
Do you want a built in compressor so the music is always at the same volume (many computer programs have this built in now)? I'm a hi-fi nut, my RA88a handles 72 db s/n 1812 overture very well from CD source and 55 db source material on LP's.
Ultimate is a special term. My RA88a now produces hiss less than the pilot light on the gas stove, but it is not "ultimate". Grand piano sounds really nice through it, my sign of sonic quality since I have a Steinway piano to calibrate one's ears with.
Tubes have nice distortion curves for guitar amps, but have reliability problems in portable devices due to shock. But, they are impervious to lightning strikes.
Do you want lightning strike protection on the power input? the CD inputs? (not the turntable inputs, you could hear a protector on MM or MC and turntables have to be 6' or less from the mixer).
You want long life pots (the 1998 Peavey rotaries are holding up well, as are the 1996 RA88a sliders).
I bought the RA88a mixer for $15 used and put $25 of parts in it, so it is certainly not "ultimate", but sounds very nice, compared to the badly packaged and low fi original . It has two turntable inputs, a tt1 to tt1 fader, 1 CD input, and a voiceover mike I converted to FM radio input (7VAC from the earphone jack). It has a steel case for radio/hash exclusion, which is a rare feature these days. I added the choke inside to keep these noises from coming on the wires. A very basic little box.
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answers
Alright 🙂 looks like were going to be building a mixer 🙂
Just look at Ecler nuo 3 -- that layout is perfect for me.
How many turntable inputs do you need? RIAA curve (normal turntable bass deemphasis) THREE channels, each with phono/line in
Moving magnet cartridge or moving coil? mm
Do you scratch? no
How many CD inputs? three line in
Do you want RCA jack or 1/4 phone plug inputs? rca
Does your turntable have a ground wire (separate green wire with fork) connected to the the tone arm to exclude hum? yes
How many voice mike inputs? none
Does the voice mike need to voiceover (dominate) the music when keyed?
What mike on device are you using? Switch on the mike or footswitch? Which voice microphone are you using?
Are you using powered speakers? a separate amp to drive the speakers? separate amp
Does your mixer power your two speakers (usually 200 w/ch or less) no
How far away is the amp input from the mixer? What kind of cables do you want? 1/4 phone, or XLR, or RCA jacks? one pair XLR plus one pair RCA outputs
Do you want a heavy case that won't skid, or a light portable case? heavy
Do you want the case to exclude noise from lamp dimmers and portable 2-way radios? (My RA-88 does now after modification. No more driveby CB radio nut in the music). sure that's a benefit
Are you okay with a wall-transformer and a power strip to turn it on with a flimsy cord between wall transformer and the mixer? not really but if that is better for sound, ok.
Or do you want a power supply in the mixer (very expensive feature, requires a separate steel box inside the mixer box) yes
Do you want slider or rotary pot adjusters? sliders
Do you want pan between turntable 1 and turntable 2? yes
Do you want pan between CD player 1 and 2 (or computer output 1 and computer 2) yes
Do you want bass and treble cut and boost controls? or Three band controls including midrange? Do you want boost in addition to cut? Three band controls with boost and cut
Or do you want an effects loop? yes
Do you want a footstep elimination switch on the output? (Mine effects the bass a bit, I leave it off usually) no
Do you need separate volume control on main PA out? Separate volume control on headphone? separate monitor outs for band speakers with separate volume controls? yes to all
Do you want effects like echo, flanger, reverb built in? no
Do you want a digital out? (pro mixers now have this, used for digital recording gear) no
Do you want a built in compressor so the music is always at the same volume (many computer programs have this built in now)? no
I'm a hi-fi nut, my RA88a handles 72 db s/n 1812 overture very well from CD source and 55 db source material on LP's.
Ultimate is a special term. My RA88a now produces hiss less than the pilot light on the gas stove, but it is not "ultimate". Grand piano sounds really nice through it, my sign of sonic quality since I have a Steinway piano to calibrate one's ears with.
Tubes have nice distortion curves for guitar amps, but have reliability problems in portable devices due to shock. But, they are impervious to lightning strikes.
Do you want lightning strike protection on the power input? no the CD inputs? no (not the turntable inputs, you could hear a protector on MM or MC and turntables have to be 6' or less from the mixer).
You want long life pots (the 1998 Peavey rotaries are holding up well, as are the 1996 RA88a sliders). yes
I bought the RA88a mixer for $15 used and put $25 of parts in it, so it is certainly not "ultimate", but sounds very nice, compared to the badly packaged and low fi original . It has two turntable inputs, a tt1 to tt1 fader, 1 CD input, and a voiceover mike I converted to FM radio input (7VAC from the earphone jack). It has a steel case for radio/hash exclusion, which is a rare feature these days. I added the choke inside to keep these noises from coming on the wires. A very basic little box.[/QUOTE]
Alright 🙂 looks like were going to be building a mixer 🙂
Just look at Ecler nuo 3 -- that layout is perfect for me.
How many turntable inputs do you need? RIAA curve (normal turntable bass deemphasis) THREE channels, each with phono/line in
Moving magnet cartridge or moving coil? mm
Do you scratch? no
How many CD inputs? three line in
Do you want RCA jack or 1/4 phone plug inputs? rca
Does your turntable have a ground wire (separate green wire with fork) connected to the the tone arm to exclude hum? yes
How many voice mike inputs? none
Does the voice mike need to voiceover (dominate) the music when keyed?
What mike on device are you using? Switch on the mike or footswitch? Which voice microphone are you using?
Are you using powered speakers? a separate amp to drive the speakers? separate amp
Does your mixer power your two speakers (usually 200 w/ch or less) no
How far away is the amp input from the mixer? What kind of cables do you want? 1/4 phone, or XLR, or RCA jacks? one pair XLR plus one pair RCA outputs
Do you want a heavy case that won't skid, or a light portable case? heavy
Do you want the case to exclude noise from lamp dimmers and portable 2-way radios? (My RA-88 does now after modification. No more driveby CB radio nut in the music). sure that's a benefit
Are you okay with a wall-transformer and a power strip to turn it on with a flimsy cord between wall transformer and the mixer? not really but if that is better for sound, ok.
Or do you want a power supply in the mixer (very expensive feature, requires a separate steel box inside the mixer box) yes
Do you want slider or rotary pot adjusters? sliders
Do you want pan between turntable 1 and turntable 2? yes
Do you want pan between CD player 1 and 2 (or computer output 1 and computer 2) yes
Do you want bass and treble cut and boost controls? or Three band controls including midrange? Do you want boost in addition to cut? Three band controls with boost and cut
Or do you want an effects loop? yes
Do you want a footstep elimination switch on the output? (Mine effects the bass a bit, I leave it off usually) no
Do you need separate volume control on main PA out? Separate volume control on headphone? separate monitor outs for band speakers with separate volume controls? yes to all
Do you want effects like echo, flanger, reverb built in? no
Do you want a digital out? (pro mixers now have this, used for digital recording gear) no
Do you want a built in compressor so the music is always at the same volume (many computer programs have this built in now)? no
I'm a hi-fi nut, my RA88a handles 72 db s/n 1812 overture very well from CD source and 55 db source material on LP's.
Ultimate is a special term. My RA88a now produces hiss less than the pilot light on the gas stove, but it is not "ultimate". Grand piano sounds really nice through it, my sign of sonic quality since I have a Steinway piano to calibrate one's ears with.
Tubes have nice distortion curves for guitar amps, but have reliability problems in portable devices due to shock. But, they are impervious to lightning strikes.
Do you want lightning strike protection on the power input? no the CD inputs? no (not the turntable inputs, you could hear a protector on MM or MC and turntables have to be 6' or less from the mixer).
You want long life pots (the 1998 Peavey rotaries are holding up well, as are the 1996 RA88a sliders). yes
I bought the RA88a mixer for $15 used and put $25 of parts in it, so it is certainly not "ultimate", but sounds very nice, compared to the badly packaged and low fi original . It has two turntable inputs, a tt1 to tt1 fader, 1 CD input, and a voiceover mike I converted to FM radio input (7VAC from the earphone jack). It has a steel case for radio/hash exclusion, which is a rare feature these days. I added the choke inside to keep these noises from coming on the wires. A very basic little box.[/QUOTE]
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