Greetings folks
After spending upto $2000 on a budget mid-fi, I am still craving for that sound (and feel) I grew up with - a Bush or Murphy radio (forget the make) that was purchased in 1970's in India by my Pa and sold for the same price ($5) a decade back.
I basically want to sit at my desk (or bedside with a book), under the warm glow of an incandescent bulb softened by a lamp shade (no florescent), dial the knob on a tabletop radio tuner and recreate the vintage sound using a DIY low watt mono tube power amp section and a 4" speaker for that slightly over-driven sound with a crunchy and aggressive midrange.
Are any modern AM/FM/SW tuners available with a dial knob and slider? I am searching locally for old parts but would prefer the newer AM/FM/SW tuners (that dont drift, and have good sensitivity). Or, is it possible to electronically pair a digital tuner with a knob and slider and get rid of the button controls? (I only know to solder but the electronics expertise for old valve radios is available locally).
For example if my Hitachi KH-WS1 (WorldSpace Radios) can be re housed in a box having a slider and knob. I can find expertise to do it for me if this is feasible.
The other part of the challenged posed is - what DIY tube amp kit do you recommend for that over-driven sound with a crunchy and aggressive midrange and a chunky bass? Less than 10W is ok.
Lastly, I am not a DIY'er, I only know how to hold a solder gun (assembled a Grounded Grid preamp clone without knowing a thing about electronics). A fool with a gun if you like. 🙂 Hence pardon my naive questions if any. I expect to find help locally to implement this, but need your experience and advice on what is feasible.
TIA
After spending upto $2000 on a budget mid-fi, I am still craving for that sound (and feel) I grew up with - a Bush or Murphy radio (forget the make) that was purchased in 1970's in India by my Pa and sold for the same price ($5) a decade back.
I basically want to sit at my desk (or bedside with a book), under the warm glow of an incandescent bulb softened by a lamp shade (no florescent), dial the knob on a tabletop radio tuner and recreate the vintage sound using a DIY low watt mono tube power amp section and a 4" speaker for that slightly over-driven sound with a crunchy and aggressive midrange.
Are any modern AM/FM/SW tuners available with a dial knob and slider? I am searching locally for old parts but would prefer the newer AM/FM/SW tuners (that dont drift, and have good sensitivity). Or, is it possible to electronically pair a digital tuner with a knob and slider and get rid of the button controls? (I only know to solder but the electronics expertise for old valve radios is available locally).
For example if my Hitachi KH-WS1 (WorldSpace Radios) can be re housed in a box having a slider and knob. I can find expertise to do it for me if this is feasible.
The other part of the challenged posed is - what DIY tube amp kit do you recommend for that over-driven sound with a crunchy and aggressive midrange and a chunky bass? Less than 10W is ok.
Lastly, I am not a DIY'er, I only know how to hold a solder gun (assembled a Grounded Grid preamp clone without knowing a thing about electronics). A fool with a gun if you like. 🙂 Hence pardon my naive questions if any. I expect to find help locally to implement this, but need your experience and advice on what is feasible.
TIA
"Gobble"
It really sounds like you should go "Old radio hunting".
Fortunately, there are still old tube desktop radios to be had. You will find them at the so-called garage sales, flea markets and 'finds' in attics and garages.
Here in Argentina there is a local professional welder (Really knows his stuff) with a collection of old tube sets.........not in working order. I really have to grind on him to let me have one to get up & going!
Modifying a modern desktop version as you indicate would be difficult to say the least as old sets had Air vane style rotary capacitors for channel tuning.
These 'tuners' are a beautiful piece of engineering...so intricate..a lost art, as everything now is micro-sized onto a silicon chip **SIGH**
They have tried to imitate the linear, analog feel of the old tuners..but its not the same.
Perhaps you could find an old tube radio...update it with all new parts...create your own work of art for a case.....wood, aluminum or ??
Or just use it as is?
It really sounds like you should go "Old radio hunting".
Fortunately, there are still old tube desktop radios to be had. You will find them at the so-called garage sales, flea markets and 'finds' in attics and garages.
Here in Argentina there is a local professional welder (Really knows his stuff) with a collection of old tube sets.........not in working order. I really have to grind on him to let me have one to get up & going!
Modifying a modern desktop version as you indicate would be difficult to say the least as old sets had Air vane style rotary capacitors for channel tuning.
These 'tuners' are a beautiful piece of engineering...so intricate..a lost art, as everything now is micro-sized onto a silicon chip **SIGH**
They have tried to imitate the linear, analog feel of the old tuners..but its not the same.
Perhaps you could find an old tube radio...update it with all new parts...create your own work of art for a case.....wood, aluminum or ??
Or just use it as is?
I have one restored and well working chassis. And some parts of the body (probably left) that dried out and fell apart.
I can sell it cheap, for the price of a power transformer only: I still want it, but don't dare to cannibalize the thing.
Edit: I mean this one: http://wavebourn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=468
I can sell it cheap, for the price of a power transformer only: I still want it, but don't dare to cannibalize the thing.
Edit: I mean this one: http://wavebourn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=468
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I have a Meissner Radio-Phono-Recorder that sounds just like what you probably are seeking. It has a lovely tone but nowhere near hi fi.
As a DIY project AM and SW is daed easy. FM is much harder to do with tubes. The easiest way to go is to restore an antique radio. There are a lot of them around.
If you want to learn about anything "radio" the best source are outlets and website that catter to "ham radio". not HiFi audio.
You can almost build an AM radio by accident, any kind of a tuned front and, a rectifier, narrow band filter and them some kind of amp. All of those stages can be very, very primitive.
I wonder if some of that "Old Radio" sound wasn't so much the radio as the studio in the days of live broadcasts.
I'm just old enough to remember live shows on radio, and the sound of the studio had a lot to do with what one heard.
I doubt that other than recordings of old programs, you will be hard pressed to reproduce the feel with modern programming.
I'm just old enough to remember live shows on radio, and the sound of the studio had a lot to do with what one heard.
I doubt that other than recordings of old programs, you will be hard pressed to reproduce the feel with modern programming.
Or search for "regenerative receiver". One tube may give you excellent sensitivity and selectivity, also sound quality much better than any superheterodyne can give.
http://www.cqham.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6683&d=1167069551
One more: grid detector radio, uses 6E1P magic eye tube:
http://www.cqham.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6683&d=1167069551
One more: grid detector radio, uses 6E1P magic eye tube:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think there were several contributors to the old radio sound. One is the restricted bandwidth of AM - probably 6-8kHz then but more like 4-5kHz now. Then there would be some distortion on modulation peaks, especially downward peaks which an envelope detector struggles to follow correctly. The single-ended output stage would add some low-order distortion too. Then a speaker with a paper cone is bound to sound different from a modern plastic or composition cone.
As others have said, your best bet is to find and, if necessary, renovate a radio from that era. Then it will look correct too!
As others have said, your best bet is to find and, if necessary, renovate a radio from that era. Then it will look correct too!
I have a pair of old Wharfedale 'Dalesman' speakers here, I'm listening to them at the moment. They were introduced in 1965. They're being driven by a modern solid state amplifier, and the source at the moment is the TV satellite receiver. Everyone who hears them is reminded of the sound of early integrated stereo/radios or 'gramophones' as they were known. These were often large pieces of furniture with room for record storage built in and speakers at either end.
These speakers are 6.1 inches in thickness with a frontal area of 20 * 25 inches. The tweeter is a 5" driver of some description and the LF is 12" from what I can feel through the grille. The construction is massive and the speakers are heavy for their dimensions. Although they are superficially scarred I expect them to continue functioning more-or-less for ever.
I actually have the eq set to minimise the somewhat excessive bass response, but I'm not about to rush out to buy a pair of modern speakers to replace them with.
These speakers do appear from time to time on the secondhand market and generally at quite reasonable prices. If you could find a pair they would probably go a long way towards satisfying your desire for that nostalgic sound but still allow you to run them with your existing equipment.
w
These speakers are 6.1 inches in thickness with a frontal area of 20 * 25 inches. The tweeter is a 5" driver of some description and the LF is 12" from what I can feel through the grille. The construction is massive and the speakers are heavy for their dimensions. Although they are superficially scarred I expect them to continue functioning more-or-less for ever.
I actually have the eq set to minimise the somewhat excessive bass response, but I'm not about to rush out to buy a pair of modern speakers to replace them with.
These speakers do appear from time to time on the secondhand market and generally at quite reasonable prices. If you could find a pair they would probably go a long way towards satisfying your desire for that nostalgic sound but still allow you to run them with your existing equipment.
w
Why not just buy an old radio on Ebay? There are tons of auctions for them and the variety is huge. If you want my recommendation, go for a nice Grundig or Telefunken set from the late 50's or early 60's. Something like a Telefunken Opus 6 or 7. These have great retro sound with excellent reception when restored. These Opus radios use push pull EL84 outputs and a 6 speaker sound system that includes 2 electrostatic tweeters.
Speaking of retro sound and speakers; the main difference between old and new speakers is distortion profile. Old speakers were made such a way distortions grew up gradually with displacement. Modern speakers mostly have sharply bent curve of distortions due to different materials used. But modern speakers may sound "vintage" as well, if to use them in phased arrays when short displacement is enough for loud reproduction.
Thanks guys. I will look out for some old ones to restore, in the long run. I know a radio expert with more than a few decades of experience behind him locally, so that gives me some sense of ease.
@Wavebourn, thats quite an effort!! a little too big for me though. I need a tabletop like 2ft by 1ft max.
The regenerative receiver looks interesting. I will check with the local expert.
Q: Can I throw FM into the mix in here? I think it works only work for SW and AM?
Q: Can this be given a rip cord dial knob front end for tuning?
Q: How good is this design for DXing?
I could add a calibrated rear plate (laser etched 6061 grade aluminum?) with frequencies marked and glass front it in a wooden cabinet to make my own "vintage" radio ...maybe? (Daydreaming 🙂)
The last step in such a DIY project would be to find that simple tube amp circuit that will generate a slightly overdriven, crunchy and aggresive midrange over a 4" fullranger and house it in the same cabinet.
@Bob, if its this one (Phono-Recorder 9-1065 (9 1065) Radio Meissner Mfg. Di) doesn't fit my requirement for simplicity. Like the google search page, I need a tool that does just one thing. 🙂
What I remember most about the Bush was its musicality - even when it was an announcer reading, there was some magic to the sound in the way the intonation, rise and fall in pitch of the voice was captured!! My "superstition" tells me it was a simple tube circuit that gave it this magic. 🙂 I do not know if it was the tube amplification section that was responsible or a tube based tuner section that added musicality?
For now I ordered this to satisfy my immediate hunger (Amazon.com: Grundig GS350DL - Portable radio: Electronics) No slider but an lcd, but SQ is great they say. Its primarily for DXing FM/AM with poor SW (too much imaging). Its el-cheapo plastic, not metal.
And yeah, I appreciate the empathy for the experience I am seeking. 🙂
Cheers
@Wavebourn, thats quite an effort!! a little too big for me though. I need a tabletop like 2ft by 1ft max.
The regenerative receiver looks interesting. I will check with the local expert.
Q: Can I throw FM into the mix in here? I think it works only work for SW and AM?
Q: Can this be given a rip cord dial knob front end for tuning?
Q: How good is this design for DXing?
I could add a calibrated rear plate (laser etched 6061 grade aluminum?) with frequencies marked and glass front it in a wooden cabinet to make my own "vintage" radio ...maybe? (Daydreaming 🙂)
The last step in such a DIY project would be to find that simple tube amp circuit that will generate a slightly overdriven, crunchy and aggresive midrange over a 4" fullranger and house it in the same cabinet.
@Bob, if its this one (Phono-Recorder 9-1065 (9 1065) Radio Meissner Mfg. Di) doesn't fit my requirement for simplicity. Like the google search page, I need a tool that does just one thing. 🙂
What I remember most about the Bush was its musicality - even when it was an announcer reading, there was some magic to the sound in the way the intonation, rise and fall in pitch of the voice was captured!! My "superstition" tells me it was a simple tube circuit that gave it this magic. 🙂 I do not know if it was the tube amplification section that was responsible or a tube based tuner section that added musicality?
For now I ordered this to satisfy my immediate hunger (Amazon.com: Grundig GS350DL - Portable radio: Electronics) No slider but an lcd, but SQ is great they say. Its primarily for DXing FM/AM with poor SW (too much imaging). Its el-cheapo plastic, not metal.
And yeah, I appreciate the empathy for the experience I am seeking. 🙂
Cheers
A few years back they were some reproductions done of the classic Grundig radio. AM/FM and even a stereo RCA input. All solid state, but they sound pretty good.
I bought one for the exact same reason you did and I like it. See eBay. "Grundig Classic Radio"
I bought one for the exact same reason you did and I like it. See eBay. "Grundig Classic Radio"
This one is ready for DXing on short waves, no image reception at all because it has no IF. It is a complete SW receiver.
http://www.ljplus.ru/img/s/y/symbolith/regen_2schem_ru.gif
For FM band you may use a single transistor phase detector thingy.
Like this one: Google Translate
http://www.ljplus.ru/img/s/y/symbolith/regen_2schem_ru.gif
For FM band you may use a single transistor phase detector thingy.
Like this one: Google Translate
@Panomaniac, yes I bid on a grundig but the shipping to India is way too costly, hence I will not compete the bid, rather bide my time seeking a local seller. I would rather spend my money trying to replicate the vintage sound with a newly implemented circuit at this stage, until I conclude that it is not practical/feasible for me to achieve or it fails to give me that enjoyment. I am thinking I should give it a shot at DIY or DIO (Do-it-Others with the radio experts help 🙄) before I import a broken or dysfunctional $50 radio for $120 shipping!! 🙂
@Wavebourne, Thank you for the valuable suggestions. I will discuss the schematic and feasibility of implementation with my local expert this week. 🙂
Radio aside, What simple tube circuit (to be paired with a 3" fullrange driver) do you recommend for that vintage sound? Note I need crunchy aggressive midrange but clear open sonics overall (tired of hearing that repeatedly? 🙄). I think overdriving a pre stage - somewhat like a guitar amp, paired with a low watt (maybe less than 10W) power section sounds like a good recipie? and I can sacrifice accuracy just a bit for that tube coloration as long as nuances in violin can be heard. I also plan to plug in my Marantz cd6002 and TV audio into it in the long run (and maybe give up on stereo altogether! )
Any ideas and tips? Any hopes for ultra simple single tube circuit ? One for pre and one for power?
TIA
🙂
@Wavebourne, Thank you for the valuable suggestions. I will discuss the schematic and feasibility of implementation with my local expert this week. 🙂
Radio aside, What simple tube circuit (to be paired with a 3" fullrange driver) do you recommend for that vintage sound? Note I need crunchy aggressive midrange but clear open sonics overall (tired of hearing that repeatedly? 🙄). I think overdriving a pre stage - somewhat like a guitar amp, paired with a low watt (maybe less than 10W) power section sounds like a good recipie? and I can sacrifice accuracy just a bit for that tube coloration as long as nuances in violin can be heard. I also plan to plug in my Marantz cd6002 and TV audio into it in the long run (and maybe give up on stereo altogether! )
Any ideas and tips? Any hopes for ultra simple single tube circuit ? One for pre and one for power?
TIA
🙂
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Regen_det.html 😀
Add a 6EM7 based amplifier and presto... instant nostalgia complete with tuning squeals.
Add a 6EM7 based amplifier and presto... instant nostalgia complete with tuning squeals.
Thank you for that.
Now regarding the choice of tube amp - is there a mono version of the RH 84 available? Something like a complete DIY kit? or a PCB and part BoM?
I plan to use it with a 4ohm 89db driver like the Jordan jcr6 because the 20cm sealed box cabinet is an ideal size for tabletop or wall mounting and it looks possible for me to execute without reading a book on speaker design and construction (with some advice from a local diy'er).
More importantly - will pairing a tube amp with a difficult speaker load result in the tubes being over driven (which is what I want with the el84 🙂)? Or does it require an overloaded input signal to overdrive a tube?
Thanks for helping me plan this out.
Now regarding the choice of tube amp - is there a mono version of the RH 84 available? Something like a complete DIY kit? or a PCB and part BoM?
I plan to use it with a 4ohm 89db driver like the Jordan jcr6 because the 20cm sealed box cabinet is an ideal size for tabletop or wall mounting and it looks possible for me to execute without reading a book on speaker design and construction (with some advice from a local diy'er).
More importantly - will pairing a tube amp with a difficult speaker load result in the tubes being over driven (which is what I want with the el84 🙂)? Or does it require an overloaded input signal to overdrive a tube?
Thanks for helping me plan this out.
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