Hi,
a friend of mine is looking for speakers for his Marantz 4400. He doesnt really know about impedance or what it means and the speakers he is currently looking to buy are kef R5 meta. The kefs are listed as 4 ohm (min 3,2) and an efficiency of 86db. I'd say the 4400 could drive them but it's not ideal.
What would you say and if you had to choose what would you consider a perfect match for a medium sized room...?
I personally would say JBL L100 might be a good choice but thats just based on ...I dunno...probly gut feeling. Does the 4400 benefit from modern speakers? My feeling sais vintage amp likes vintage speakers but again thats just a wild guess.
Thank you so much for any input!
Arne
a friend of mine is looking for speakers for his Marantz 4400. He doesnt really know about impedance or what it means and the speakers he is currently looking to buy are kef R5 meta. The kefs are listed as 4 ohm (min 3,2) and an efficiency of 86db. I'd say the 4400 could drive them but it's not ideal.
What would you say and if you had to choose what would you consider a perfect match for a medium sized room...?
I personally would say JBL L100 might be a good choice but thats just based on ...I dunno...probly gut feeling. Does the 4400 benefit from modern speakers? My feeling sais vintage amp likes vintage speakers but again thats just a wild guess.
Thank you so much for any input!
Arne
Marantz 4400 is specified for 4 ohms. ". Tuning range: FM, MW. Power output: 125W/ch (stereo), 50W/ch into 4Ω (quadraphonic) Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz. Total harmonic distortion: 0.15% Damping factor: 40. Input sensitivity: 1.8mV (MM), 180mV (line) Signal to noise ratio: …"
How big is the room? Where are the speakers and listening chair located? What type of music?
Kef R5 meta features a 1" Vented dome Tweeter, 1 x 5" Midrange and 2 x 5.25" Hybrid Aluminum Woofer. The speaker has a frequency range of 52-28k Hz and a sensitivity of 87 dB. KEF R5 Meta has an MSRP of 3998$ per pair.
Very inefficient (soft) for a 50 w/ch amp. I'm listening today to a 98 db 1w1m speaker pair, 54-17500 hz +- 3 db, HD 2nd & 3rd harmonic 25 db down from 5 W output. I listen at 1/8 to 50 w usually, lots of classical, some pop and rock. SP2 are designed to stand on poles at one end of the room, projecting highs down on the listener over 3 m away and gaining 3 db bass boost from the near front wall especially 30-54 hz. Peavey SP2(2004) which originally sold for $1098 the pair. The newer SP2 are tuned for 2000 w (program) band reinforcement and have lost the 5 W distortion spec. On the used market look for simlar appearance to the new ones but a 1000 w program rating on the back label instead of 2000. I bought my SP2(2004) for $400 the pair plus $100 to go get them. I do not need 17500-28000 hz, my ears were damaged by the US Army and stop at 14 khz. Must adult men that have shot guns, driven motorcycles or power boats or operated chain saws or gas lawn equipment, have similar or worse high frequency limitations.
Similar accurate speakers not for sale in my metroplex are JBL4367 and M2. 4367 30-40khz and 94 db 1w1m. A similar model that does go up to 20000 hz is the Klipsch Heresy. Only 94 db 1w1m and floor standing instead of projecting highs over the furniture. The latter are available new for $3198 the pair. As far as vintage Klipsch Heresy has been in production since 1957.
How big is the room? Where are the speakers and listening chair located? What type of music?
Kef R5 meta features a 1" Vented dome Tweeter, 1 x 5" Midrange and 2 x 5.25" Hybrid Aluminum Woofer. The speaker has a frequency range of 52-28k Hz and a sensitivity of 87 dB. KEF R5 Meta has an MSRP of 3998$ per pair.
Very inefficient (soft) for a 50 w/ch amp. I'm listening today to a 98 db 1w1m speaker pair, 54-17500 hz +- 3 db, HD 2nd & 3rd harmonic 25 db down from 5 W output. I listen at 1/8 to 50 w usually, lots of classical, some pop and rock. SP2 are designed to stand on poles at one end of the room, projecting highs down on the listener over 3 m away and gaining 3 db bass boost from the near front wall especially 30-54 hz. Peavey SP2(2004) which originally sold for $1098 the pair. The newer SP2 are tuned for 2000 w (program) band reinforcement and have lost the 5 W distortion spec. On the used market look for simlar appearance to the new ones but a 1000 w program rating on the back label instead of 2000. I bought my SP2(2004) for $400 the pair plus $100 to go get them. I do not need 17500-28000 hz, my ears were damaged by the US Army and stop at 14 khz. Must adult men that have shot guns, driven motorcycles or power boats or operated chain saws or gas lawn equipment, have similar or worse high frequency limitations.
Similar accurate speakers not for sale in my metroplex are JBL4367 and M2. 4367 30-40khz and 94 db 1w1m. A similar model that does go up to 20000 hz is the Klipsch Heresy. Only 94 db 1w1m and floor standing instead of projecting highs over the furniture. The latter are available new for $3198 the pair. As far as vintage Klipsch Heresy has been in production since 1957.
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Yes reviews are most useless. You can trust very few. For so much money he really should listen first. Audiosciencereview.com gives very good pointers with serious measurements. -By far flawless but still.
I suggest he listens to good professional monitors in the same price range and less. They should murder the KEFs and L100 IMO!
I like wider speakers more than slim like the KEFs, but let his ears deside.
Expensive full size studio monitors should have much higher dynamic abilities than KEF and L100. -Thats a fact!
JBL makes Studio monitors as well as you know, but I imagine great ones are made or designed in Germany as well.
Cheers, and good luck to your friend.
I suggest he listens to good professional monitors in the same price range and less. They should murder the KEFs and L100 IMO!
I like wider speakers more than slim like the KEFs, but let his ears deside.
Expensive full size studio monitors should have much higher dynamic abilities than KEF and L100. -Thats a fact!
JBL makes Studio monitors as well as you know, but I imagine great ones are made or designed in Germany as well.
Cheers, and good luck to your friend.
So basicly you agree that the r5 met are not exactly ideal for the 4400 right? I dont know exactly how big the room is but I wrote him a minute ago and asked
Yes he is going to get the speakers home for testing, I just thought why test them when they are most likely not a good match anyway.
They could be ideal in the right room. I haven't heard expensive KEFs but they supposedly does something that others can't. -Maybe on the cost of something else. IDK.
Marantz 4400 - 125 watts per channel into 8 ohms in 2 channel mode.
Pioneer HPM-100, HPM-110, B&W 703 mk1 and other similar antique baskets.
125W... show mercy if you're a good neighbor.
Pioneer HPM-100, HPM-110, B&W 703 mk1 and other similar antique baskets.
125W... show mercy if you're a good neighbor.
I haven't heard kefs other then ls50 myself. The question would be if the 4400 could drive less than 4 ohm as the r5 meta specs say "4ohm (min 3,2)".
I know that impedance is fluctuating anyway, I just dont know how much and if it can become an issue at some point.
Another question would be if it even makes sense to pair the marantz with modern speakers or if the benefits of modern speaker technology is only really a step forward when paired with modern amplification.
I personally would rather choose speakers roughly from the same era like tannoy 15'' gold.
Per https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r5_meta/ impedance chart the kef r5 meta is below 4 ohms between 110 and 220 hz. There is probably not enough energy in that zone for the amp to overheat the outputs in home use. Erin reports HD is about 40 db down at 86 db (good) and group delay is impressive.
Per rayma's post post about audition, I've only heard AR3, Klipschhorn, SP5, and SP2, Altec VOT, & meyersound in person. First was demonstrating on Simon & Garfunkle. Second was playing light jazz trumpet + brush + string bass. Both of which tracks told me nothing. I was able to play Beethoven Appassionata on the SP5 & SP2 which told me SP5 was light on bass in an open high ceiling warehouse. SP2 in a 5 sided living room was impressive. I heard Altec VOT in 1966 in a theatre, which was very impressive on the film Lord Jim. Meyersound at Brown Theater was too big for my house. There is an audio show in Chicago next week in a huge convention space. A vast room shaped nothing like mine, which is the shape of Wein Philharmonikar Hall only 1/40 th the size. I will not go.
Your friend may have more audition opportunities in highly populated Germany.
As far as modern amps, class D is all the rage. I am happy with class AB and have a re-e-capped M2600 for my living room and a repaired CS800s for outdoors or large venues. I turned down a 260 w/ch class D amp for $200 at the same home where I bought the SP2(2004). I auditioned current SP2(2004) in a home with a 75 w mono clsss AB amp MMA875T I bought with me; also my own CD player. Seller would not let me plug the CD player into the class D amp, lest it cause damage.
Tannoy has a reputation, see what erin thinks about it. He thought the JBL 4367 were worth owning if he only had $8100 each. Supply of Tannoy in USA is low.
Per rayma's post post about audition, I've only heard AR3, Klipschhorn, SP5, and SP2, Altec VOT, & meyersound in person. First was demonstrating on Simon & Garfunkle. Second was playing light jazz trumpet + brush + string bass. Both of which tracks told me nothing. I was able to play Beethoven Appassionata on the SP5 & SP2 which told me SP5 was light on bass in an open high ceiling warehouse. SP2 in a 5 sided living room was impressive. I heard Altec VOT in 1966 in a theatre, which was very impressive on the film Lord Jim. Meyersound at Brown Theater was too big for my house. There is an audio show in Chicago next week in a huge convention space. A vast room shaped nothing like mine, which is the shape of Wein Philharmonikar Hall only 1/40 th the size. I will not go.
Your friend may have more audition opportunities in highly populated Germany.
As far as modern amps, class D is all the rage. I am happy with class AB and have a re-e-capped M2600 for my living room and a repaired CS800s for outdoors or large venues. I turned down a 260 w/ch class D amp for $200 at the same home where I bought the SP2(2004). I auditioned current SP2(2004) in a home with a 75 w mono clsss AB amp MMA875T I bought with me; also my own CD player. Seller would not let me plug the CD player into the class D amp, lest it cause damage.
Tannoy has a reputation, see what erin thinks about it. He thought the JBL 4367 were worth owning if he only had $8100 each. Supply of Tannoy in USA is low.
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" 4 ohm" nominal load will dip to 3 ohms at some points.
Pretty normal for all 4 ohm loads.
Being that its only 87dB
and wants to spend such money.
Probably look at focal for same price range
and get closer to 91 dB for modern speaker.
Vintage / modern, Wharfedale Linton also gets good reviews
for less price.
Pretty normal for all 4 ohm loads.
Being that its only 87dB
and wants to spend such money.
Probably look at focal for same price range
and get closer to 91 dB for modern speaker.
Vintage / modern, Wharfedale Linton also gets good reviews
for less price.
Hi,
many thanks for the answers/opinions so far. The low efficiency of the kefs is one of the things I mentioned to the owner of the Marantz rightaway. Focal is absolutely worth looking into. I heard the big ones (2nd largest...I think utopia sx or so?) and they were breathtaking and I personally like the look of em. From an optical standpoint Sonus Faber would match the wood Cabinet of the 4400 quite well, any opinions on those?
many thanks for the answers/opinions so far. The low efficiency of the kefs is one of the things I mentioned to the owner of the Marantz rightaway. Focal is absolutely worth looking into. I heard the big ones (2nd largest...I think utopia sx or so?) and they were breathtaking and I personally like the look of em. From an optical standpoint Sonus Faber would match the wood Cabinet of the 4400 quite well, any opinions on those?
First and foremost... I sure hope your friend's 4400 has been rebuilt. Not just "new caps" and LED (yuck!), I mean an honest from the ground up rebuild. Do that before dumping money on speakers.
I'm currently driving a pair of ADS L810 speakers with my Marantz 2325. It's a very good match.
The Marantz has an old, kind of dark sound, the ADS mask its shortcomings. Of course, everything has been fully restored.
I sure hope your friend's 4400 has been fully restored. A quad set of ADS L500s would be simply an awesome set up with the Marantz.
Did he get the SQA decoder plug in? Then, get four speakers.... I used to have a quad set of PSB Alpha speakers hooked up to my restored 4415 and it was fun to play with the "dimension" control.
Remember, the Marantz is an old unit, and even after fully rebuilding it, it will still sound "dark". I wouldn't use a modern high end speaker on it.
Maybe a used Snell E, J or K? Ideally, look for something that has about 89, or better, efficiency and is on the smooth side of things without being too forward or "detailed". The KEFs are the wrong type of speaker. It will show the shortcomings of the Marantz all too clearly.
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=snell+k
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3048743294...customid=837d3e16-f9fc-11ee-8294-323133386336
https://www.hifishark.com/model/ads-l-500
Ideally, though, I'd do a hifishark.com search... and IGNORE Rip Off Artists like Reverb.
I would NOT use JBL L100. That combination would be way too boomy with muted treble.
Oh, tell your buddy to get the wired remote too! RC-4 it's called.
I'm currently driving a pair of ADS L810 speakers with my Marantz 2325. It's a very good match.
The Marantz has an old, kind of dark sound, the ADS mask its shortcomings. Of course, everything has been fully restored.
I sure hope your friend's 4400 has been fully restored. A quad set of ADS L500s would be simply an awesome set up with the Marantz.
Did he get the SQA decoder plug in? Then, get four speakers.... I used to have a quad set of PSB Alpha speakers hooked up to my restored 4415 and it was fun to play with the "dimension" control.
Remember, the Marantz is an old unit, and even after fully rebuilding it, it will still sound "dark". I wouldn't use a modern high end speaker on it.
Maybe a used Snell E, J or K? Ideally, look for something that has about 89, or better, efficiency and is on the smooth side of things without being too forward or "detailed". The KEFs are the wrong type of speaker. It will show the shortcomings of the Marantz all too clearly.
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=snell+k
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3048743294...customid=837d3e16-f9fc-11ee-8294-323133386336
https://www.hifishark.com/model/ads-l-500
Ideally, though, I'd do a hifishark.com search... and IGNORE Rip Off Artists like Reverb.
I would NOT use JBL L100. That combination would be way too boomy with muted treble.
Oh, tell your buddy to get the wired remote too! RC-4 it's called.
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