Hello,
First post here so hello to all.
My Marantz CD-63SE was skipping quite a bit, so I bought and have installed a replacement VAM1202. Tested with three CDs all of which would not play well before, and all three played through perfectly. I was very happy.
But - the fourth CD - the player could not detect. Nor a few others. In fact only about 50%.
So, I tried adjusting the pot on the laser assy. Some improvement but still not perfect. Then I tried adjusting the two tiny torx screws as suggested on the CD63-67 thread on here. Again, some improvement, but still only about a 75% success rate. The "old" laser assembly never had this problem, it read any CD I tried, just often skipped during playback.
The seller of the replacement laser suggested "adjusting the servo" but has not explained what that means. Also he says that there is no chance the VAM1202 is faulty, which contradicts what I have read on here that some boards are duff on arrival!
So, can anyone please give me any advice on what to try next?
Many thanks,
Richard
First post here so hello to all.
My Marantz CD-63SE was skipping quite a bit, so I bought and have installed a replacement VAM1202. Tested with three CDs all of which would not play well before, and all three played through perfectly. I was very happy.
But - the fourth CD - the player could not detect. Nor a few others. In fact only about 50%.
So, I tried adjusting the pot on the laser assy. Some improvement but still not perfect. Then I tried adjusting the two tiny torx screws as suggested on the CD63-67 thread on here. Again, some improvement, but still only about a 75% success rate. The "old" laser assembly never had this problem, it read any CD I tried, just often skipped during playback.
The seller of the replacement laser suggested "adjusting the servo" but has not explained what that means. Also he says that there is no chance the VAM1202 is faulty, which contradicts what I have read on here that some boards are duff on arrival!
So, can anyone please give me any advice on what to try next?
Many thanks,
Richard
The CD mech. is a Philips mech. There is little adjustment if any required. I would purchase another assembly to prove the one you have now is faulty. Adjusting the laser power will void any sort of warranty!
I would be inclined to try and fix the original if you still have it and its untouched alignment eise. Most skipping issues are down to dried out grease.
There are no servo adjustments possible on these type of pickups and tbh, once you have altered the alignment of the optics and laser power then you will never satisfactorily be able to realign it with highly specialised equipment.
The replacements I have had experience of were grim (and that was some years ago).
There are no servo adjustments possible on these type of pickups and tbh, once you have altered the alignment of the optics and laser power then you will never satisfactorily be able to realign it with highly specialised equipment.
The replacements I have had experience of were grim (and that was some years ago).
Are these commercial cds or ones that you have burnt yourself?
If commercial then there is little doubt that the new laser is faulty.
Regards
Pete
If commercial then there is little doubt that the new laser is faulty.
Regards
Pete
If you order a CDM12.2 that is the original Philips mech, not the cheap Chinese replica.
I would check the spindle motor on your old mech.
I would check the spindle motor on your old mech.
Thanks for all the replies – interesting to know that the adjustments shouldn’t be touched and the seller suggesting it should be sounds like he just doesn’t want the hassle of sending me a replacement.
@Mooly – yes I have not touched the alignment on the old one, so could try to fix it – are you suggesting adding some more grease? Out of interest, the skipping was always at certain points on certain CDs, does that sound more like the laser was having trouble at those points?
@ChivvyP – A mixture of commercial and CD-Rs, so as you say I think the replacement is faulty.
@JonSnell – the replacement I have fitted does have a Philips sticker on it, but the box looks rather cheap and nasty. How do you know what you are getting when buying a replacement? When you say check the spindle motor, do you mean add more grease (it does look a bit dried-up). But as I said to Mooly, if this skipping was always at the same points on certain tracks, does that point to the laser rather than the motor?
@Mooly – yes I have not touched the alignment on the old one, so could try to fix it – are you suggesting adding some more grease? Out of interest, the skipping was always at certain points on certain CDs, does that sound more like the laser was having trouble at those points?
@ChivvyP – A mixture of commercial and CD-Rs, so as you say I think the replacement is faulty.
@JonSnell – the replacement I have fitted does have a Philips sticker on it, but the box looks rather cheap and nasty. How do you know what you are getting when buying a replacement? When you say check the spindle motor, do you mean add more grease (it does look a bit dried-up). But as I said to Mooly, if this skipping was always at the same points on certain tracks, does that point to the laser rather than the motor?
Post #4 here details what to do. Skipping at certain points is almost certainly a grease issue. Friction causes the sled to stick which causes the voltage across the sled motor to then rise until that friction is overcome. The result is the sled suddenly jerks forward losing its sync with the data on the disc.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ntz-cd6000ose-ki-not-reading.html#post3060200
This is the grease. Not cheap for a one off job I'm afraid.
SPG35SL - ELECTROLUBE - SPECIAL PLASTICS GREASE 35ML | CPC
The quantity of grease needed is so small that you could perhaps scavenge some off the "new" pickup. You only need a smear. Another source might be a an old VCR as these use similar lubricants on all the gears and carriage. You must remove all the old stuff though because the problem is that it has hardened and become granular.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ntz-cd6000ose-ki-not-reading.html#post3060200
This is the grease. Not cheap for a one off job I'm afraid.
SPG35SL - ELECTROLUBE - SPECIAL PLASTICS GREASE 35ML | CPC
The quantity of grease needed is so small that you could perhaps scavenge some off the "new" pickup. You only need a smear. Another source might be a an old VCR as these use similar lubricants on all the gears and carriage. You must remove all the old stuff though because the problem is that it has hardened and become granular.
Very interesting to know. Are this NOS parts from Philips?
Do you know, if there are also CDM12.4 heads or mechanism available, that is not cheap Chinese replica ?
I need it for replace in some CD Players like Primare, Thule, Cyrus DAD and some other. The main issue by the copies is the fact, that this laser units work partly but the RF signal is very bad and too low at the same time. For checking the laser units I use the CDR765 - go to
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/75656-philips-cdr765-service-manual-anyone.html
Thanks for your advices.
check out this threads in this case:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...am1254-cdm12pro-vau1254-cdm12-4-compatib.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...dm-12-4-transport-compatible-replacement.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...lt0h30pa-inside-philips-cdm12-vam12-mech.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/118902-stripdown-clean-cdm12-4-a.html
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Update...
I contacted the seller and suggested the replacement was faulty. He strongly denied this and told me that people are saying there are a lot of defective VAM1202's around as "they do not know what they are doing". He said that I need to make "adjustments to the servo adjustments within either the service menu, or the controls on the main board" (which means nothing to me, but as far as I can see there is nothing you can adjust in the service menu). However, he then said he would send a replacement VAM1202 free of charge...!
So I have fitted that this afternoon, and things are much better. The player will read nearly all of the CDs I have tried. Of the few it won't read, they are all CD-Rs and five out of the six are ones I have very recently burned (from the same batch of Verbatim discs). The player spins the discs but cannot read the TOC, the display just says "disc". I have tried in service mode, and for the discs it cannot read, it gives error 10 which I have looked up as "radial error".
So I am not sure what to do now. I could go down the route as Mooly suggested of trying to fix the old laser assembly, but since I have got this far I am wondering if something else is at fault?
I would *really* appreciate any advice as to what next to test - as much as anything I would like to understand what the problem is as much as to fix it!
I contacted the seller and suggested the replacement was faulty. He strongly denied this and told me that people are saying there are a lot of defective VAM1202's around as "they do not know what they are doing". He said that I need to make "adjustments to the servo adjustments within either the service menu, or the controls on the main board" (which means nothing to me, but as far as I can see there is nothing you can adjust in the service menu). However, he then said he would send a replacement VAM1202 free of charge...!
So I have fitted that this afternoon, and things are much better. The player will read nearly all of the CDs I have tried. Of the few it won't read, they are all CD-Rs and five out of the six are ones I have very recently burned (from the same batch of Verbatim discs). The player spins the discs but cannot read the TOC, the display just says "disc". I have tried in service mode, and for the discs it cannot read, it gives error 10 which I have looked up as "radial error".
So I am not sure what to do now. I could go down the route as Mooly suggested of trying to fix the old laser assembly, but since I have got this far I am wondering if something else is at fault?
I would *really* appreciate any advice as to what next to test - as much as anything I would like to understand what the problem is as much as to fix it!
I think that as the deck was produced 15 years ago, before recordable discs so you may have a compatibility issue.
You need to look at the signal coming off the disc with an oscilloscope paying attention to the amplitude and general "quality" of the data. Burned discs are an unknown... and comparing the signal from these vs pressed Red Book commercial discs would be revealing. I found that signal quality improved with faster burning speeds, which goes against normal advice, but the oscilloscope showed otherwise.
There are no adjustments and nothing you can realistically do to the pickup to improve things. They should be 100% perfect out of the box but as mentioned, CDR's are an unknown.
There are no adjustments and nothing you can realistically do to the pickup to improve things. They should be 100% perfect out of the box but as mentioned, CDR's are an unknown.
@JonSnell - maybe, but the original laser never had a problem reading the CD-Rs (just playing them 😉 )
@Mooly - I do not have an oscilliscope but have been thinking about getting one for a while, maybe this is a good excuse. How do you go about looking at the signal coming off the disc (appreciate that's not a one-line reply - any webpage you could point me to?) Do you think some of that grease you mentioned might help matters on this laser (I will probably end up getting some in any case as if I can't get this second laser to work, I might as well try the original one as per your first suggestion).
Having actually listened to some CDs now - the thing is skipping again!!! I am beginning to think this CD player might be heading for the dustbin - if it weren't for the fact I would really like to work out what the fault is...
@Mooly - I do not have an oscilliscope but have been thinking about getting one for a while, maybe this is a good excuse. How do you go about looking at the signal coming off the disc (appreciate that's not a one-line reply - any webpage you could point me to?) Do you think some of that grease you mentioned might help matters on this laser (I will probably end up getting some in any case as if I can't get this second laser to work, I might as well try the original one as per your first suggestion).
Having actually listened to some CDs now - the thing is skipping again!!! I am beginning to think this CD player might be heading for the dustbin - if it weren't for the fact I would really like to work out what the fault is...
The RF signal from the disc is easily picked up at the output of the "RF amplifier".
Identifying that point on an unknown player is something an experienced tech can usually do in a few seconds, otherwise you need to look at the service manual which will detail the test point or at the very least show the path of the signal.
Any player and any (commercial) disc gives the same basic pattern that is used as the basis to evaluate what is going on. Post #1 here shows some real scope shots of the signal.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/226288-sony-cdp790-kss240-restoration-project.html
Identifying that point on an unknown player is something an experienced tech can usually do in a few seconds, otherwise you need to look at the service manual which will detail the test point or at the very least show the path of the signal.
Any player and any (commercial) disc gives the same basic pattern that is used as the basis to evaluate what is going on. Post #1 here shows some real scope shots of the signal.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/226288-sony-cdp790-kss240-restoration-project.html
vam 1202 sets have been canibalized seriously as we speak
We currently replace an average of 20-25 sets per year ...
VAm 1202 in the range of 15-30 euro are after market sets that actually work OK BUT the latest 2 years the worldwide market is full of the same set that doesnt work ...
IN a CD player like that an original pick up is a drop in thing no adjustments to be made at all and trust me is capable to read the disk even before the tray is completely closed .
Messing up with screws and trimmers will cost you `a new laser
There is a chance that you get an original 1202 set but it will cost you something like 70-85 euro ... so its up to you
Kind regards
Sakis
We currently replace an average of 20-25 sets per year ...
VAm 1202 in the range of 15-30 euro are after market sets that actually work OK BUT the latest 2 years the worldwide market is full of the same set that doesnt work ...
IN a CD player like that an original pick up is a drop in thing no adjustments to be made at all and trust me is capable to read the disk even before the tray is completely closed .
Messing up with screws and trimmers will cost you `a new laser
There is a chance that you get an original 1202 set but it will cost you something like 70-85 euro ... so its up to you
Kind regards
Sakis
@Mooly - thanks for the advice. I am going to look into getting a scope - I've been thinking about it for a while, maybe this is the time. Of couse I could buy a new CD player for the price of that, but then I would still have one which needs fixing 🙂
@ EastElectronics - you have confirmed what others have said - there are no adjustments on the laser, so either the seller has misunderstood or is not telling the whole truth... and I would tend to agree with your comment that there are a lot of dodgy VAM1202s on the market - why else would the first one have only read about 50% of CDs, and the second one (nearly) all of them (without any "servo adjustments" that the seller claimed were necessary...)
Having read more on the internet, there is some talk of an incompatibility between the grey spindle platter on the original, and the black one on the replacement VAM1202:
CD M12.1 Mechanism / Marantz CD 63 KI Where to source? - Page 2 - pink fish media
I shall investigate that further.
And also try Mooly's first idea of trying to mend the original by cleaning the gears and applying new grease.
Thanks to all who have posted on this topic. I'll make sure to post back once I have (eventually) explored some of these options.
@ EastElectronics - you have confirmed what others have said - there are no adjustments on the laser, so either the seller has misunderstood or is not telling the whole truth... and I would tend to agree with your comment that there are a lot of dodgy VAM1202s on the market - why else would the first one have only read about 50% of CDs, and the second one (nearly) all of them (without any "servo adjustments" that the seller claimed were necessary...)
Having read more on the internet, there is some talk of an incompatibility between the grey spindle platter on the original, and the black one on the replacement VAM1202:
CD M12.1 Mechanism / Marantz CD 63 KI Where to source? - Page 2 - pink fish media
I shall investigate that further.
And also try Mooly's first idea of trying to mend the original by cleaning the gears and applying new grease.
Thanks to all who have posted on this topic. I'll make sure to post back once I have (eventually) explored some of these options.
Platters and gears did indeed vary between different mechs.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...em-meridian-508-20-transport.html#post2694841
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...em-meridian-508-20-transport.html#post2694841
In the service bulletins from Philips (from the last clean cd player models) there are explain in detail the differences between VAM1201 and VAM1202. The links therefore I have posted anywhere here on diyaudio.
check also out post #11 under
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...z-cd63-loading-discs-off-centre-wobbly-2.html
The replace of only the laser diode (not the laser head at whole) from the VAL1250 is a genuine Sharp part and a helpful solution to get good results after replace this in the old laser head
check out therefore this URLs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/83432-what-players-use-vam1250.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-S...LTOH30PAH25-30PAH25T-Transistor-/331039872619
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...lt0h30pa-inside-philips-cdm12-vam12-mech.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/118902-stripdown-clean-cdm12-4-a.html
BTW - is this also a VAM1202?
original Philips laser lens pickup for LINN SONDEK CD12 Cd-Player | eBay
Unfortunately there is no picture from the actually item.
check also out post #11 under
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...z-cd63-loading-discs-off-centre-wobbly-2.html
The replace of only the laser diode (not the laser head at whole) from the VAL1250 is a genuine Sharp part and a helpful solution to get good results after replace this in the old laser head
check out therefore this URLs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/83432-what-players-use-vam1250.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-S...LTOH30PAH25-30PAH25T-Transistor-/331039872619
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...lt0h30pa-inside-philips-cdm12-vam12-mech.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/118902-stripdown-clean-cdm12-4-a.html
BTW - is this also a VAM1202?
original Philips laser lens pickup for LINN SONDEK CD12 Cd-Player | eBay
Unfortunately there is no picture from the actually item.
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I just installed a new chinese kit into a cd-63 Mk. II K.I. and upon doing that, it reads toc really fast on anything. But skips a bit on the first two to three songs. I then took out the drive, upside down, and cleaned the gears and slide pin with isopropylalcohol. Then applied a little bit of teflon oil to a cotton stick and applied that on to the parts I just cleaned. Works perfectly now,a dn plays anything. And no skipping.
Cheers,
Redfox.
Cheers,
Redfox.