Howdy all
The DIY bug has bitten now that the kids are grown up, cars are done and I have time....
I have the old drivers out of my old B&W DM220's. They weren't bad speakers but a blown tweeter in one and torn driver cone in another put paid to them as a pair.
I have left 3 of the drivers (BZ200/16) and one tweeter (RZ26) - what I am hoping is that I can build something out of these. Being *very* new to the DIY scene can anyone suggest some tweeters to use and maybe a suitable crossover. I only ask as I have no idea what to look for at this early stage. Of course there is also the option that entails not using the drivers because they are useless - if that is true then they will probably just become something to chuck in the garage.....
Any help with this initial little project would be appreciated.
Cheers
Bruce
The DIY bug has bitten now that the kids are grown up, cars are done and I have time....
I have the old drivers out of my old B&W DM220's. They weren't bad speakers but a blown tweeter in one and torn driver cone in another put paid to them as a pair.
I have left 3 of the drivers (BZ200/16) and one tweeter (RZ26) - what I am hoping is that I can build something out of these. Being *very* new to the DIY scene can anyone suggest some tweeters to use and maybe a suitable crossover. I only ask as I have no idea what to look for at this early stage. Of course there is also the option that entails not using the drivers because they are useless - if that is true then they will probably just become something to chuck in the garage.....
Any help with this initial little project would be appreciated.
Cheers
Bruce
Hi Bruce
Do you think you could repair that cone with some paper/wood glue? It will work if the tear is not too bad; just realign the broken bits and then apply the glue, letting it soak into the paper.
To get the best from these drivers I would mate them to a Dayton RS52 mid and budget tweeter (I was once in the same position you are, except that both tweeters were fine, though the torn cone was repaired in an unsightly way).
See zaphaudio.com for some comparative test results and projects.
Good luck
Do you think you could repair that cone with some paper/wood glue? It will work if the tear is not too bad; just realign the broken bits and then apply the glue, letting it soak into the paper.
To get the best from these drivers I would mate them to a Dayton RS52 mid and budget tweeter (I was once in the same position you are, except that both tweeters were fine, though the torn cone was repaired in an unsightly way).
See zaphaudio.com for some comparative test results and projects.
Good luck
Don't B&W sell replacment drivers? I managed to get 25 year old drivers form mission audio. Worth emailing them if you liked the sound.
Hi Shaun
The tear isn't too bad, it actually looks like I tried to repair it at some point as the tear has tape (!) on the back of the cone. I will very carefully try and remove that and go with the wood glue.
Am I reading you correctly in assuming that I can use a pair of those with a Dayton and a budget tweeter - e.g. Hi-Vi SD1.1A tweeter (only know that one because it is in a project I would like to build one day over at diyaudioprojects.com) or do you mean use one driver with a Dayton & tweeter?
I also had a look over on zaphaudio.com but they were a little above my head. Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Bruce
The tear isn't too bad, it actually looks like I tried to repair it at some point as the tear has tape (!) on the back of the cone. I will very carefully try and remove that and go with the wood glue.
Am I reading you correctly in assuming that I can use a pair of those with a Dayton and a budget tweeter - e.g. Hi-Vi SD1.1A tweeter (only know that one because it is in a project I would like to build one day over at diyaudioprojects.com) or do you mean use one driver with a Dayton & tweeter?
I also had a look over on zaphaudio.com but they were a little above my head. Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Bruce
A little too late for that I'm afraid, I butchered the cabinets a few years ago when I was playing with other drivers. The drivers, tweeter & crossovers is all I have now....
Cheers
Bruce
Just reviving this thread, I would like to try a simple 2 way with these drivers. If I grab, say, a Jaycar tweeter (ct2009) can anyone suggest a simple project to do as a starter DYI using 1 driver and a tweeter per box. Suggestions on a crossover would also be appreciated.
I would be driving these initially with a 100w amp and them (maybe) later a Gainclone.
Off course, if anyone has any other configuration suggestions, they too would be welcome although it has to be a budget type solution just to "play" with.....
Hoping someone can help.
Cheers
Bruce
I would be driving these initially with a 100w amp and them (maybe) later a Gainclone.
Off course, if anyone has any other configuration suggestions, they too would be welcome although it has to be a budget type solution just to "play" with.....
Hoping someone can help.
Cheers
Bruce
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Any generic crossover recommendation would not give you the optimal result, as the crossover has to be custom designed for the specific enclosure and driver combination. See if you can trace a fellow DIYer in your area who has measurement capability. You'll need to firstly determine the Thiele/Small parameters of the woofer, design your enclosure, mount the drivers and then do the acoustic measurements before getting down to the crossover design.
Thanks Shaun
I think it is becoming pretty clear that I should just sell all these drivers to someone who needs B&W spares. I neither have the resources or know how to accomplish DIY of this level.
Anyone that needs a driver for the aged B&W speakers, please contact me - I have 3 BZ200 woofers available.
Cheers
Bruce
I think it is becoming pretty clear that I should just sell all these drivers to someone who needs B&W spares. I neither have the resources or know how to accomplish DIY of this level.
Anyone that needs a driver for the aged B&W speakers, please contact me - I have 3 BZ200 woofers available.
Cheers
Bruce
My intention was not to discourage you. There are many successful designs that were done "by ear" and rule of thumb: you can still try this approach. For instance, someone who has used the Jaycar tweet could identify a minimum crossover frequency for the driver, and you could work from there...
A simple solution would be to buy a plate amp (for example Hypex DS1.2) and use the bass drivers to build a subwoofer with all four drivers. If you can't or don't want to measure the drivers you can just build the subwoofer roughly the same size as the original DM220 (=double that if you use all four drivers). If you make the enclosure sealed I don't think you can go wrong. The result may not be perfectly optimized but it will be very good value for money.
Hi guys
I have sent an email to B&W in the UK asking if they have the parameters however once I have them (if they can supply) I have no idea what to do with them.
When I came across this site I thought it would be similar to the car DIY site I am a member of. I took my own car DIY to the extreme and stripped it to a bare shell and replaced everything with later model stuff - suspension, wiring, interior - I mean everything - all inside 5 weeks. I learnt a tremendous amount from the guys on that site while I was doing it (although I was a car nut to start with).
I am not an audiophile by any means, I am just trying to get a good sounding set of speakers that perform a hell of alot better than my Mac, which is currently the best sounding thing in the house. I looked at DIY as there is no way on Gods green earth I could afford to stroll into an audio shop and slap 2, 3, $4000 on a set of speakers. The DM 220's and a pair of KEF C10's were my most expensive purchases in the area of speakers and that was probably because I didn't know any better.
I love learning about new things and adding to my knowledge base. As I love a wide range of music types I would love to hear them as they should be heard, or at least as close as I can realistically get. I plan to tackle a Gainsclone soon for not only the experience but also to see what they sound like.
Is there anywhere where I can better understand the "art" of speaker design in a language that a newbie can understand. There are so many acronyms that I scratch my head about and I struggle to understand some of the threads I peruse. If I gained just a little more knowledge I probably wouldn't ask dumb questions like the one above.
thomsva: Good possibility and one I never knew existed. I always imagined that you had to use a specific subwoofer for that purpose. Besides, I only really have 2 woofers available as one is potentially sold and the other is torn.
Please do not look upon me as ungrateful, I just do not understand half of what is being said at times.
CHeers
Bruce
I have sent an email to B&W in the UK asking if they have the parameters however once I have them (if they can supply) I have no idea what to do with them.
When I came across this site I thought it would be similar to the car DIY site I am a member of. I took my own car DIY to the extreme and stripped it to a bare shell and replaced everything with later model stuff - suspension, wiring, interior - I mean everything - all inside 5 weeks. I learnt a tremendous amount from the guys on that site while I was doing it (although I was a car nut to start with).
I am not an audiophile by any means, I am just trying to get a good sounding set of speakers that perform a hell of alot better than my Mac, which is currently the best sounding thing in the house. I looked at DIY as there is no way on Gods green earth I could afford to stroll into an audio shop and slap 2, 3, $4000 on a set of speakers. The DM 220's and a pair of KEF C10's were my most expensive purchases in the area of speakers and that was probably because I didn't know any better.
I love learning about new things and adding to my knowledge base. As I love a wide range of music types I would love to hear them as they should be heard, or at least as close as I can realistically get. I plan to tackle a Gainsclone soon for not only the experience but also to see what they sound like.
Is there anywhere where I can better understand the "art" of speaker design in a language that a newbie can understand. There are so many acronyms that I scratch my head about and I struggle to understand some of the threads I peruse. If I gained just a little more knowledge I probably wouldn't ask dumb questions like the one above.
thomsva: Good possibility and one I never knew existed. I always imagined that you had to use a specific subwoofer for that purpose. Besides, I only really have 2 woofers available as one is potentially sold and the other is torn.
Please do not look upon me as ungrateful, I just do not understand half of what is being said at times.
CHeers
Bruce
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Yes you are right that there are drivers better suited for subwoofer use. For loud and low frequency bass you would need big expensive drivers, lots of power and a large enclosure, so you should not expect too much. But if I recall correctly the DM220:s performed very nicely in the bass range so a subwoofer with these drivers could be pretty useful. But I think it would be nicer to be able to use all four drivers for a subwoofer. 🙂
That sounds like a great option, I have the sizes for a DM110 cabinet.
Do you think I could use the DM220 x-overs and just not connect the bottom woofer or am I just showing my newbieness again?
I wasn't really thinking when I said DM110- this will work best if the two models use the same driver. However, what will work is to put one 8"er in a sealed cabinet half the size (volume) of a DM220. Re-using the crossover is tricky... this time you have only one woofer, so sensitivity will be down. Then, again: is the DM220 a 2-way or 2.5-way? The latter means that one of woofers (usually the lower one) has lower upper frequency cut-off. There is nothing to say that you cannot try it. At least you may have to attenuate the tweeter.
Hi Shaun
Yup, the DM110 thru 330 used the same drivers, was just the box size difference (in *my* terms!)
Don't know if the crossover is 2 to 2.5, I have attached the pics of the crossover info sent to me by another forum member. Crossovers are a black art to me at the moment...
Cheers
Bruce
Yup, the DM110 thru 330 used the same drivers, was just the box size difference (in *my* terms!)
Don't know if the crossover is 2 to 2.5, I have attached the pics of the crossover info sent to me by another forum member. Crossovers are a black art to me at the moment...
Cheers
Bruce
Attachments
Okay, then: this is 2.5-way. You can see that the lower bass driver has an extra inductor in series. Start by using the connection for the upper bass driver, and match tweeter level by tweaking the resistor. My guess is that this configuration will require some baffle step compensation. If you can get the schematic of a DM110, it will bring you a step closer wrt baffle step compensation.
One more thing: now that it has been ascertained that the driver are the same, I would recommend a bass reflex enclosure as per the original DM110. From what I recall, the DM220 has a tighter bass, but the DM110 had a bit more kick. If you could get the Thiele-Small parameters, you could model a design design that goes lower than the DM220, but still control the Q such that it is not boomy.
Thanks again Shaun, I have an email out to B&W now asking if they have that info for the drivers. As yet no reply...
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
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