Hi again. I am going to replace all of the small electrolytics in my M-505 power amp as a few are leaking.
The main caps appear to be good, so I am not touching them for now.
I want you'all to take a look at the schematic and capacitor list and tell me which grade of cap you would put where if you were looking for a warm, fatigue free but transparent and totally balance sound with good soundstage and imaging.
The cap list is as follows:
2x 10uf 35v
2x 10uf 50v
1x 33uf 16v
4x 47uf 6.3v
2x 47uf 50v
4x 100uf 16v
4x 220uf 6.3v
1x 220uf 16v
4x 220 35v
1x 1000uf 16v
The amp has all Nichicon capacitors, so I will likely be sticking with those unless Elna Cerafine or Silmics will work better in a few places.
All capacitors must have low ESR and low impedance.
You can read more about the amp in question here: https://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-505-e.html
The main caps appear to be good, so I am not touching them for now.
I want you'all to take a look at the schematic and capacitor list and tell me which grade of cap you would put where if you were looking for a warm, fatigue free but transparent and totally balance sound with good soundstage and imaging.
The cap list is as follows:
2x 10uf 35v
2x 10uf 50v
1x 33uf 16v
4x 47uf 6.3v
2x 47uf 50v
4x 100uf 16v
4x 220uf 6.3v
1x 220uf 16v
4x 220 35v
1x 1000uf 16v
The amp has all Nichicon capacitors, so I will likely be sticking with those unless Elna Cerafine or Silmics will work better in a few places.
All capacitors must have low ESR and low impedance.
You can read more about the amp in question here: https://audio-database.com/ONKYO/amp/integram-505-e.html
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There are ZERO electrolytic capacitors in the audio signal path except maybe the Subsonic Filter. All of the electrolytics are contained in the auxiliary power supplies and protection circuits. The Nichicon UPW series are good for power supplies.
Craig
Craig
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I have two of these (as part of the full Onkyo set - P-303/E-30/U-30/M-505) - one as a main amplifier in living room and one as spare.
Both of these:
Both of these:
- fully recapped except the big lytics (Panasonic FM/FC);
- input board lytics replaced with film capacitors;
- input board switch disassembled and cleaned;
- speaker protection relay replaced (contacts deteriorated visibly);
- IMPORTANT! unsolder and clean the adjustment trimpots if you do not want to risk frying the amp (do not ask how I know).
Yes, but here's the thing. They used 4 different types of "for audio" caps on the amp boards. These types even sell for cheaper than the series you suggest (which are used only on the protection board).
I have found that even power caps noticeably affect sound.
I heard that these sound cold and sterile.
I thought about this as well. But what film cap is completely neutral and transparent, and without costing a fortune? Where will they fit?
I wasn't going to touch these as both the bias and dc offset measure in spec.
The input pots need cleaning however as one is noisy.
I went ahead and looked at the Panasonic FC/FM/FR series. They measure well, and many consider them to be more balanced and transparent than the Nichicons.
What do they sound like in your amps Madis?
What do they sound like in your amps Madis?
OK. So I am down to determining which caps are polar and which are bi.
I know that the main caps are polar, and caps in the feedback loops are bi, but what about the rest of them?
I am thinking of using mostly MUSE and Silmics in the amp boards.
I know that the main caps are polar, and caps in the feedback loops are bi, but what about the rest of them?
I am thinking of using mostly MUSE and Silmics in the amp boards.
Sorry, we seem to be in different camps 😉
They do not "sound" at all and regarding people who write that this or that brand of capacitors is "grainy" or "musical" - I really do not waste my time on that.
In very general view - in signal path I have replaced lytics with film caps, in power sections I have tried to use 105-degrees rated lytics.
M-505 is very "generous" for your task - you can do one half at a time and measure/listen to the results.
You will hear what you hear...
All of the electrolytics are polarized, I see NO Bipolar electrolytics on the schematic. All of the electrolytic capacitors are annotated with + and -. All film capacitors are bipolar. There are several pF capacitors scattered around the schematic, I would use some type C0G(NP0) capacitor, not sure what's in it now. What else do you want to know. If that amp was in my shop I would use Panasonic FCs as all of the capacitors are power supply related or it just doesn't matter if not in a power supply role.
Craig
Craig
It doesn't make sense to use polarized caps in the feedback loops. They are known to sound bad there.
Also, it is commonly believed that bipolars can safetly sub for polars. Is this not true?
All boards are loaded with film caps and audio grade electrolytics.
Not a single ceramic to be found.
Not a single ceramic to be found.
The Service Manual doesn't have any of that info, I'm just looking at the schematic. Unusual for small pF values to be film, Mouser doesn't list anything under 10pf in film. There several 3pF and 5pF capacitors in the circuit. Digikey doesn't have any films under 33pF.
You have the service manual ?
That will tell you most of what you need to know.
You have the amp in your hands.
That will tell you everything else you need to know.
If between these two things that you have in hands, you are unable to identify what parts you need.
Then I respectfully suggest that this is maybe something you should Not be attempting.
As for the 'sound' of different electrolytic caps, instead of demanding to know what we believe, why not do your own research and see what others believe.
EDIT, by research I mean go and search out and read other posts instead of sitting there asking what others have asked 5 bazillion times already.
I took the cover off for a closer look. There is one ceramic on each amp board near power input.
The rest of the small caps are mica's.
The rest of the small caps are mica's.
Some of the caps are buried and hard to see. These are the ones that are leaking.
My only real question was where I could sub bipolars since there are MUSE caps in values that are hard to find in Silmics.
Thank you 🤣 🤔
I'm here all week.
In ye olden days, us decrepit's had to travel to a place that stored lots of things scrawled with sticks of charcoal on bits of processed timber pulp.
Then we had to search through all these prophetic writings in the hope of finding what we seek.
If only they would invent some sort of device that would allow you to search many locations all from the comfort of your own home.
Ahhhhhhh but thats just the pipe dream of a very old man.
Doubt I'll ever see it in my time.
I'm here all week.
In ye olden days, us decrepit's had to travel to a place that stored lots of things scrawled with sticks of charcoal on bits of processed timber pulp.
Then we had to search through all these prophetic writings in the hope of finding what we seek.
If only they would invent some sort of device that would allow you to search many locations all from the comfort of your own home.
Ahhhhhhh but thats just the pipe dream of a very old man.
Doubt I'll ever see it in my time.