Hey guys.
I was wondering about the performance of the OS speakers compared to other commercial speakers. More specifically in the $500-600 range (BW685, MA BX2/RX2, PSB B6, etc.)
Right now I have a pair of Cambridge Audio S30s and a pair of Behringer 2030ps. How would the OS speakers compare to those?
I was wondering about the performance of the OS speakers compared to other commercial speakers. More specifically in the $500-600 range (BW685, MA BX2/RX2, PSB B6, etc.)
Right now I have a pair of Cambridge Audio S30s and a pair of Behringer 2030ps. How would the OS speakers compare to those?
No opinions? It doesnt specifically have to be the overnight sensations. How would any diy speaker around 200 bucks compare to commercial speakers?
You might want to post this at parts express tech talk forum. you'll find many who have built them there.
Hi,
Be realistic about what they can compare to.
At £120 and with a very simple x/o also
be realistic about the S30's capabilities.
In both cases your not talking $500-$600.
rgds, sreten.
I suspect with measuring equipment the S30's
can be turned into a very different speaker.
Be realistic about what they can compare to.
At £120 and with a very simple x/o also
be realistic about the S30's capabilities.
In both cases your not talking $500-$600.
rgds, sreten.
I suspect with measuring equipment the S30's
can be turned into a very different speaker.
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I wasnt trying to compare the s30s with the $500 speakers. Basically what im trying to see is, would the OSs be an upgrade to the s30s or 2030ps.
Also, are there any diy speaker kits that ARE on par with the commercial speakers i mentioned? I mean kits that are priced lower than 500.
Also, are there any diy speaker kits that ARE on par with the commercial speakers i mentioned? I mean kits that are priced lower than 500.
Many choices are out there
I would suggest you visit DIY Speaker Components | Replacement Speakers | and Speaker kits from Meniscus Audio Group or The Madisound Speaker Store. Together they have 10-15 great designs that fit in your price range.
I have built the O/S kits in both the MT and MTM versions and they do very well (I use them for front stage, LCR, in a HT set up in my living room and I am very happy with them). They are still a 4" woofer and a very small tweeter, i.e. not going to compete with 5.25", or a 6.5" woofer, or play very loud without distortion, so they will not beat most of the speakers you asked to compare them to.
I have built Chris Roemer's "Nano Neo" kit again has a 4" woofer, but this woofer has some massive excursion, so they can put out almost as much bass as a 6.5" woofer, as long as you stay at lower volumes and it can also be build as a MTM version for louder volumes and a bit more bass. Here is the link for the write-up on them. on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO))
I have built the "Classix II" by Paul Carmody, his site is https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/, and he also has 6-8 DIY builds that fit your price range. I personally have similar taste to Paul, in that he likes a good amount of bass and has a relaxed mid-range and tweeter, so it sounds good with all types of music and recordings and you can listen for hours without fatigue. These have a 6.5" woofer with a larger size tweeter, and have an f3 in the high-30's , and they sound very good to my ears, but they are not "reference" type speakers, they are an all-around good speaker to build yourself, that is also inexpensive.
Take a look at these sites and come back with some specific questions on DIY kits, myself and others will be glad to offer assistance where we can.
I would suggest you visit DIY Speaker Components | Replacement Speakers | and Speaker kits from Meniscus Audio Group or The Madisound Speaker Store. Together they have 10-15 great designs that fit in your price range.
I have built the O/S kits in both the MT and MTM versions and they do very well (I use them for front stage, LCR, in a HT set up in my living room and I am very happy with them). They are still a 4" woofer and a very small tweeter, i.e. not going to compete with 5.25", or a 6.5" woofer, or play very loud without distortion, so they will not beat most of the speakers you asked to compare them to.
I have built Chris Roemer's "Nano Neo" kit again has a 4" woofer, but this woofer has some massive excursion, so they can put out almost as much bass as a 6.5" woofer, as long as you stay at lower volumes and it can also be build as a MTM version for louder volumes and a bit more bass. Here is the link for the write-up on them. on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO))
I have built the "Classix II" by Paul Carmody, his site is https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/, and he also has 6-8 DIY builds that fit your price range. I personally have similar taste to Paul, in that he likes a good amount of bass and has a relaxed mid-range and tweeter, so it sounds good with all types of music and recordings and you can listen for hours without fatigue. These have a 6.5" woofer with a larger size tweeter, and have an f3 in the high-30's , and they sound very good to my ears, but they are not "reference" type speakers, they are an all-around good speaker to build yourself, that is also inexpensive.
Take a look at these sites and come back with some specific questions on DIY kits, myself and others will be glad to offer assistance where we can.
If compact size is not a hang up......I built some Silver AL's "UE" and in a 1cuft cabinet they are quite nice for the $150 in parts (not including cabinet).
I would say they are on par with the handful of $4-500 commercial speakers that are available to listen to in my location.
If a floor-stander is not out of the question I really enjoy the TriTrix MTM kit ($230 including cabinets) from Parts Express I built a couple of years back.
I'd say they would trade blows with most $6-700 commercial speakers that I have listened to locally.
I've also read very positive things about the AviaTrix Sealed MTM kit ($285).
I have a friend that built the Overnight Sensation MTM kit ($170/pr.) and he is quite satisfied with the final result.
I would say they are on par with the handful of $4-500 commercial speakers that are available to listen to in my location.
If a floor-stander is not out of the question I really enjoy the TriTrix MTM kit ($230 including cabinets) from Parts Express I built a couple of years back.
I'd say they would trade blows with most $6-700 commercial speakers that I have listened to locally.
I've also read very positive things about the AviaTrix Sealed MTM kit ($285).
I have a friend that built the Overnight Sensation MTM kit ($170/pr.) and he is quite satisfied with the final result.
OS is a well designed small diy 2-way. A commercial loudspeaker in the 500-600 range would need to be exceptional to beat it up.
I heard the OS a1st at a VI diyFEST where they sounded good but were quickly trounced by a similarily priced (in Canada, so the OS had more shipping) EL70eN based speaker (fullrange/1way).
At a later date, Kyle brought them by with an optimized miniDSP setup (using the budget miniDSP chip amps) and they were even better.
dave
I heard the OS a1st at a VI diyFEST where they sounded good but were quickly trounced by a similarily priced (in Canada, so the OS had more shipping) EL70eN based speaker (fullrange/1way).
At a later date, Kyle brought them by with an optimized miniDSP setup (using the budget miniDSP chip amps) and they were even better.
dave
The overnight sensations are a very low budget pair of DIY speakers with some of the least expensive drivers (but nevertheless decent) you can buy.
Where the DIY arena gets interesting is when you get into designs that use drivers that maximise the price/performance ratio where performance isn't skimped on for the sake of a still, less expensive, driver.
Examples of such would be Zaphs own ZA5.5 designs and pretty much any good design that uses the RS series of drivers in two ways.
For example the Amiga
Once you've got something using drivers of excellent quality, you really have to spend big to get any kind of worthwhile improvement.
Where the DIY arena gets interesting is when you get into designs that use drivers that maximise the price/performance ratio where performance isn't skimped on for the sake of a still, less expensive, driver.
Examples of such would be Zaphs own ZA5.5 designs and pretty much any good design that uses the RS series of drivers in two ways.
For example the Amiga
Once you've got something using drivers of excellent quality, you really have to spend big to get any kind of worthwhile improvement.
Wow thanks for all the replies guys, got a lot to choose from now. One thing though, it seems a lot of these speakers are pretty hard to drive. My amp is only 2x14w and i plan on making a tube amp in the near future thats even less than that.
If you don't have a large room to fill you don't really NEED more than 20W or so. More is nice though.
While you may not get 100db SPL performance with 14w, you can still get 70-80db on most of these suggestions. Just browse through the suggested sites and look for something in the neighborhood of 85-86db/SPL efficient, because most DIY kits are an average over the whole Frequency Response, where a lot of manufactures list their peek, or for a small section of the FR (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that).
The kits from meniscus look good but unfortunately they dont do enclosures anymore. I have no access to any woodworking tools so i need premade enclosures too. Diysoundgroup has some. Anyone have any experience with The Tango? Their waveguide speaker kits look good too, anyone have experience with those?
Look at some of the RS kits from Parts Express, some of the 5-6" 2-ways come with cabinets and everything you need.
You mentioned the diysoundgroup designs. Those are descended from the Econowave DIY designs from a few years back, which used pro sound woofers and compression drives with inexpensive waveguide horns on them. The bass response will be a bit restricted, but the efficiency will be high (very nice for low powered amps).
I knocked together a pair of floorstanding two-ways using custom made tractrix horns and 10" pro sound drivers in old Klipsch cabs. The results were way better than the original Klipsch (with its really cheap drivers), but still too much like a PA speaker for my taste. I can hear lots of potential there, though.
The SEOS kits at diysoundgroup are properly engineered (as opposed to my hasty amateur project). A lot of people think they're great. The Fusion-8 Alchemy kit looks promising (designed by Jeff Bagby, comes with the drivers, xo parts and baffle, and there's an inexpensive raw cabinet available too) -- Fusion-8 Alchemy - Waveguide Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group
--
I knocked together a pair of floorstanding two-ways using custom made tractrix horns and 10" pro sound drivers in old Klipsch cabs. The results were way better than the original Klipsch (with its really cheap drivers), but still too much like a PA speaker for my taste. I can hear lots of potential there, though.
The SEOS kits at diysoundgroup are properly engineered (as opposed to my hasty amateur project). A lot of people think they're great. The Fusion-8 Alchemy kit looks promising (designed by Jeff Bagby, comes with the drivers, xo parts and baffle, and there's an inexpensive raw cabinet available too) -- Fusion-8 Alchemy - Waveguide Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group
--
the fusion 8 is actually the kit i was looking at. im to understand though that these speakers are more for PA rather than hifi, or am i wrong? Whats the difference anyway?
A PA (sound reinforcement) speaker is meant to be played very loud (high power handling) and needs to have controlled dispersion (the sound goes where you aim the speaker, and not so much elsewhere). That helps with reducing feedback from the main speakers' sound bleeding into the onstage microphones.
Those SEOS speakers are *supposed* to be for home theater, not for PA at all. They use the horns' controlled directivity to reduce unwanted reflections off the side walls, ceiling and floor. I understand that home theater speakers are required to be very clear for dialog intelligibility (perhaps a presence boost compared to most hifi speakers?) and need to be very dynamic for reproducing the booms and crashes in movie soundtracks. That said, an accurate speaker is an accurate speaker, so if they're accurate with smooth frequency response, they should sound great for music too.
If you've ever heard one of the better Klipsch speakers, SEOS style designs are supposed to be a noticeable improvement over those. If you've heard one of the better Klipsch speaker models and absolutely hated them, then a SEOS type of speaker probably wouldn't float your boat.
All I can say is that an awful lot of people have flipped over these waveguide-based speakers. I like my homebrew tractrix horn speakers, but not well enough that they've become my main speakers for music listening. They could get there, if I had the crossover design chops (and time and energy) to smooth out their frequency response problems. As it is, they sound very good but are a bit light in the bass and shouty in the mids. Still better than the Klipsch speakers in their stock form. FWIW...
There was a lot of buzz over the Econowave speakers a few years ago. Those threads are still around.
Those SEOS speakers are *supposed* to be for home theater, not for PA at all. They use the horns' controlled directivity to reduce unwanted reflections off the side walls, ceiling and floor. I understand that home theater speakers are required to be very clear for dialog intelligibility (perhaps a presence boost compared to most hifi speakers?) and need to be very dynamic for reproducing the booms and crashes in movie soundtracks. That said, an accurate speaker is an accurate speaker, so if they're accurate with smooth frequency response, they should sound great for music too.
If you've ever heard one of the better Klipsch speakers, SEOS style designs are supposed to be a noticeable improvement over those. If you've heard one of the better Klipsch speaker models and absolutely hated them, then a SEOS type of speaker probably wouldn't float your boat.
All I can say is that an awful lot of people have flipped over these waveguide-based speakers. I like my homebrew tractrix horn speakers, but not well enough that they've become my main speakers for music listening. They could get there, if I had the crossover design chops (and time and energy) to smooth out their frequency response problems. As it is, they sound very good but are a bit light in the bass and shouty in the mids. Still better than the Klipsch speakers in their stock form. FWIW...
There was a lot of buzz over the Econowave speakers a few years ago. Those threads are still around.
Hi,
On paper the fusion 8 looks good for low powered amplifiers,
but seems to ignore baffle step issues completely, and I
wouldn't trust that response graph much, it is not possible.
Still you could build it and precede your amplifier with :
Baffle Step Compensation
Which will convert a decent PA speaker into a hifi speaker.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the Behringers are pretty good for the money, with
BSC they still have decent efficiency, but not much bass.
On paper the fusion 8 looks good for low powered amplifiers,
but seems to ignore baffle step issues completely, and I
wouldn't trust that response graph much, it is not possible.
Still you could build it and precede your amplifier with :
Baffle Step Compensation
Which will convert a decent PA speaker into a hifi speaker.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW the Behringers are pretty good for the money, with
BSC they still have decent efficiency, but not much bass.
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Jeff Bagby is a pretty well respected designer, I think he knows what he's doing with regards to baffle step.
FWIW, I'm using a pair of the same Eminence Beta 8a in an active setup, but I tried modeling them in Passive Crossover Designer using published frd & zma files. It looked like a suitably sized inductor would provide the needed BSC and act as the first element in a 2nd order electrical network. I'm not trying to reverse engineer Bagby's work, but to understand it, and I believe his results.
The extremely flat published FR is probably spliced from near-field and gated far field curves. I doubt you could get the same result in-room, but I do expect the finished speaker is pretty darned flat.
The limitation of the Beta's is that they won't make much bass, 70 Hz or so in the recommended boxes. I get closer to 60 in small MLTL cab's. The Fusion 8's are intended to be used with a sub (or multiple subs). The larger Fusion 12's should have pretty satisfying bass down to 40 or so, but of course are larger and cost more. The 12's are another jump more sensitive than the 8's so they will get even more from your small amp. That might help justify the price.
Bill
Hi,
Well that is a load of the proverbial. I'm sure JB knows when he
is and isn't ignoring baffle step, and the Fusion 8 ignores it, EOS.
rgds, sreten.
The above is impossible without ignoring BSC.
Well that is a load of the proverbial. I'm sure JB knows when he
is and isn't ignoring baffle step, and the Fusion 8 ignores it, EOS.
rgds, sreten.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The above is impossible without ignoring BSC.
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