PA Subwoofers to use with EV ELX200-15p Speakers

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imperyal

Member
Joined 2017
#1
Hello!

I'm in the process of buying or building a pair of subs to use with the EV ELX200 15inch speakers I recently bought second hand.
The speakers can be replaced in the future so, for the subs I don't mind to go a little overkill.

I think it would be better to build instead of buying because of my requirements:
  • Max weight 35Kg
  • SPL 134db or more
  • Frequency response starting at 30hz (-3db)
  • Size, under 24inches (bigger side of the box)
  • Active would be great, but a passive will be preferable due to cost

I don't even know if this requirements can be meet...
A tried and tested design would be ideal... But I'm open to suggestions.

Woofers that were recommended to me (and are available in Europe):
  • B&C Speakers 18DS115, 4 ohm, 18 inch
  • Beyma 21LEX1600Nd, 8 ohm, 21 inch
 
#3
Thank you, that's exactly why I'm seeking for help/advise here. I'm far from an expert.

Amps with DSP:

Depending on the woofer used:
  • Woofer 1: Beyma 21LEX1600Nd, 8 ohm, 21 inch
  • Woofer 2: B&C Speakers 18DS115, 4 ohm, 18 inch

These amp/woofer combos where suggested by a friend.
They are expensive options, if I can get away with less expensive options the better.
The 21 inch woofer may require too big of a box for me...

My main requirements are size and weight.
These will be used for music in general, some EDM and Hiphop, latin and reggaeton...
Frequencywise, I guess 40hz at -3db would work well...

Some options I did consider if I were to buy an of the shelf sub:

The Yamaha looks good, but is very heavy and expensive...

My budget for this is around 2200 Euros (don't mind to pay less of course).
 
#4
imperyal said:
I think it would be better to build instead of buying because of my requirements:
  • Max weight 35Kg
  • SPL 134db or more
  • Frequency response starting at 30hz (-3db)
  • Size, under 24inches (bigger side of the box)
  • Active would be great, but a passive will be preferable due to cost
Click to expand...
Yeah those requirements would be very difficult to meet, I sympathize but there is only so much that can be done.. you only get to pic two of these three... loud, low, small. I'd also suggest you forget about 4ohm drivers and big power handling specs, loudspeakers are voltage responsive so the goals should be amplifiers with hugh voltage swing driving high impedance drivers to minimize dissipated power.

I own some EV EKX18sp subs, they are pretty good but the max SPL specs are overstated.. this is not uncommon in the industry. That means you won't be happy with the output of the EKX15SP or the ELX118P which is less powerful, you may like the output of the Yamaha but yeah it is big and heavy.
There is a manufacturer in China that have some high power sub plate amps that appear to meet specs based on a recent thread I read, Here is a link to thier biggest model which could power a pair of drivers or a pair of single driver boxes.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002051566963.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.1db91719zKPRP1&algo_pvid=64491dc0-3805-455d-b0c6-af7c4f635535&algo_exp_id=64491dc0-3805-455d-b0c6-af7c4f635535-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000018584028681"}&pdp_npi=3@dis!CAD!582.62!582.62!!!!!@21021a7216778698930604086d0765!12000018584028681!sea!CA!0&curPageLogUid=FPGjNUHrxF94
 
#5
I'd actually rather go for 4ohm drivers, in order to maximise amp output. Modern high-power drivers need to be hit with a decent amount of power to utilise their output potential.

Flat down to 40Hz beats most portable subwoofers, and is a reasonable target. I'd go for a high-power 18" driver in a ported box, and hit it with as much power as it can handle. NB - Read up online about the amps you're talking about. IIRC, some of the cheaper Crown models fall apart when used for bass.

Chris
 
#7
your weight requirment is very low. To meet your SPL requirment and LF corner you would be looking at a 21" sub-woofer weighing about 80kg if constructed from birch ply. I would aim for 40Hz to reduce size and weight. If you can build out of fiberglass this can reduce weight.
 
#8
Thank you @chris661 for your remarks. In this day and age it's difficult to trust manufacturers.

@conanski, you have experience with EV EKX18sp subs, do you think they are a good pair for the ELX200 15 speakers I have? The frequency response is very similar to that of the Yamaha DXS18, maybe a little less SPL on the EV's... And they are less expensive, lighter and smaller...

@neo2015, Josh Ricci CKRAM looks very good but it is too big (and potentially heavy), It will not fit in my car along with top speakers and other DJ gear...

@kipman725 yeah, 80kg is a no go and I can't do it on fiberglass...

Maybe I should try another approach, let's say.. Can I replicate the EV EKX18sp (or improve that a bit) and save a significant amount of money?
 
#9
#10
imperyal said:
@conanski, you have experience with EV EKX18sp subs, do you think they are a good pair for the ELX200 15 speakers I have? The frequency response is very similar to that of the Yamaha DXS18, maybe a little less SPL on the EV's... And they are less expensive, lighter and smaller...

Maybe I should try another approach, let's say.. Can I replicate the EV EKX18sp (or improve that a bit) and save a significant amount of money?
Click to expand...
Yes they would pair well with the ELX200-15p, I use them in different numbers with ZLX12p's, EKX12p, or Yamaha DXR15's and they aren't too bad to move. You can certainly beat thier perfromance with a DIY build though, I need some more but at almost $2K/box here in Canada they are no longer cost effective since I know I can build a pair of boxes for that. The combo I have been contemplating is the B&C 18TBW100 with one of those import plate amps in a box similar in size to the EKX sub.
 
#11
What about...

2x Plate amps:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...b916781856830068916ee113!12000027060195335!sh

To use with the 18" B&C 18TBW100 woofers:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-b-c-speakers-18tbw100-4-ohm-18-inch.html

I read somewhere that you typically use an amp ratted for program power of your speaker, B&C states this woofer delivers 3000w program power, so these plate amps may be underpowered...

O don't think I can get an external amp that delivers 2400w at 4ohms x2 channels with DSP for less, but the rating on these plate amps from china... I don't know...
There's a recent thread about these plate amps where @Caleb Chia tested two of them:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/anybody-used-getshow-plate-amps.388159/

That would cost 1454€ for the amps and woofers alone.
I think I can get the two boxes done for less then 500€ (done myself).
Final cost would be around 2000€.

Two EKX18SP would cost me 2600€ delivered (in Portugal).
Potential savings for the DIY solution: 600€

I don't know if this solution would beat the EKX18SP subs, I'm guessing that they will.

Please let me know if I'm missing something.
 
#12
#13
Just for comparison:

Here’s the EKX18SP woofer:
https://www.tescanada.com/parts/electro-voice/ev-ekx/ev-subwoofer-evs-18c

There is no specs or price here, but for what I could dig out, I think they sell these replacement woofers for around 200€.

The power handling (EV site, EKX18S, the non powered version that uses the same woofer) is 400w continuous, 1600W peak. And it’s an 8 ohm woofer.

So yeah, not on the same ballpark as B&C 18TBW100…

Price wise, the Chinese amps make sense when compared to the Behringer @neo2015 talks about. There’s the advantage of redundancy, if I use two Chinese vs 1 Behringer.
 
#14
imperyal said:
What about...

2x Plate amps:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001114739848.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.16.1e0e2b4aBpJF67&pdp_npi=2@dis!EUR!€ 321,98!€ 321,98!!!!!@210318b916781856830068916ee113!12000027060195335!sh

To use with the 18" B&C 18TBW100 woofers:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-b-c-speakers-18tbw100-4-ohm-18-inch.html

I read somewhere that you typically use an amp ratted for program power of your speaker, B&C states this woofer delivers 3000w program power, so these plate amps may be underpowered...
Click to expand...
That is the combo I'm considering except that I'd buy the 8ohm version of the driver, the 4ohm version just consumes more power for the same output SPL.. note that the respone graphs correctly shows the difference in 1w sensitivity of about 3dB.
Yes the drivers would technically be underpowered with these amps but not in a significant way.. only 3dB ignoring power compression. To utilize a 3000w amplifier with these drivers requires more advanced limiting than what is included with these plate amps, from what I can tell it has peak limiting only.

imperyal said:
There's a recent thread about these plate amps where @Caleb Chia tested two of them:

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/anybody-used-getshow-plate-amps.388159/
Click to expand...
Yeah they tested pretty good there I thought, most class D amplifers are not built to produce a full power sine wave... they target a noise signal with 6dB crest factor instead because it better simulates music. The Behringer Inuke and all the other light weight rack amps are the same... they come up a bit short of the spec using sine waves and will shut down or reduce output pretty quickly on sustained tones.
 
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#15
Port design is quite important for a compact sub, I have had great results following the attached paper. I designed a 60Hz tuned 12" compact monitor speaker using a continously radiused port made using CNC cut stacked wooden rings and it kicks unbelivably with no hint of port noise. Compared to simlar straight port speakers its remarkable. Unfortunatly I don't have any measured data but the paper is full of it.

To me 3dB is actualy quite a lot to leave on the table, at bass frequencies less dB increase is required to have a double percived volume than at higher freqs. I actualy worked this out from the equal loudness curves when deciding on a subwoofer upgrade for myself:
1678266190191.png
 

Attachments

#18
I found some commercial designs on youtube..
JBL:
EV:
YAMAHA:

They are "simple" builds.. What do you think? I like the JBL and EV horizontal style better..
(This guy's channel is full of plans...)

As I mentioned, I would prefer to use a tried and tested design...
 
#19
The Yamaha design looks good on the basis that the grill size is reduced by the front chamber and the port has fewer bends. As you probobly can't manufacture a complex bent grill this is the easiest design to copy. I don't like how the handles protrude into the port for the JBL design. You may want to consider extra bracing for all the designs.
 
#20
Thank you @kipman725 🙂

The grill manufacture is fine for me.
Both the JBL and EV designs have handles on both sides (missing on the EV video), in fact they are very similar designs.

Woofer on the EV box from the video: https://www.tescanada.com/parts/electro-voice/etx/ev-subwoofer-dvx3180a

The frequency response on the Yamaha is not very linear (according to Yamaha og specs). But some DSP would correct this if it arises.
 
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