Pair of subs to go with my 2 ways

[alexm84]

I'm looking at building a pair of subs to sit under my 2 ways as stands.

My current 2 ways are the Seas Idunn kit, but i am planning on building the kairos kit as a sealed enclosure and crossing around 200hz.


The idunn's were the first kit i ever built and have never looked into building subs.

Sticking with the seas brand for the current setup, i was thinking of running the seas L26ROY 10" Subwoofers. Amp, i was leaning towards a Crown XLS1500 as it has crossover control to let me play around with the subs depending on what speaker i am running with.

The subs will eventually make it into a theather room for the house we are building. Theater will be 4x5m or 5x6m.

Can anyone recommend what they would do in my situation? Do you think the seas L26ROY's will work well? I just wanted to sort out drivers and the amp first and order them. Then worry about enclosure design and stuff later on.

 

[chris661]

Picking a driver and seeing what you can get out of it is one way to do it.

Alternatively, what're your goals?
How low, how loud, how big?

Chris

 

[alexm84]

Picking a driver and seeing what you can get out of it is one way to do it.

Alternatively, what're your goals?
How low, how loud, how big?

Chris

It's a hard call as i've never built my own or know what sort of levels i want to achieve (as in SPL).
I currently have a Klipsch SUB-10 subwoofer (amp has died) which is plenty loud enough if that helps in comparison, but wouldn't mind having a pair to give me a bit extra for movies, and to act as stands for the 2 ways.

It will be about 50/50 music and home theater. I don't want mind numbing loudness and won't be playing at cinema levels so i guess just some nice tight subs that will work for theater and music.

Since i'm in australia, i can also get hold of Dayton subs through loudspeakerkit store. So was looking at the daytons or the seas one from madisound (though that will cost heaps more in shipping).

 

[sine143]

The dayton dvc series is solid for low 20hz tuning. Just built a ported box tuned to 22.5hz for the 12 inch and was happily surprised with its output.

 

[alexm84]

The dayton dvc series is solid for low 20hz tuning. Just built a ported box tuned to 22.5hz for the 12 inch and was happily surprised with its output.

Would you say go for a pair of 12's or 10's for a 5x6 meter room if i decide the daytons?

 

[sreten]

Hi,

The Seas is a great driver, but so are some of the Dayton subs.
Value wise Dayton is always going to win out over Seas.

rgds, sreten.

 

[alexm84]

Hi,

The Seas is a great driver, but so are some of the Dayton subs.
Value wise Dayton is always going to win out over Seas.

rgds, sreten.

Thanks Sreten, I have read good things about the seas. Problem is they are $360 to ship two to australia, this plus the $250 each to buy when converted to australian dollars (dollar is really low at the moment) is $1120 which is pushing it for 2 $250 subs.

Next question i guess, is which Dayton sub is the better one? The australian store that i can get them through is here Loudspeaker Components Loudspeaker Drivers Subwoofers
but there are so many sorts.

Do you htink a ported enclosure would be better in my situation? That will at least bring the choice of sub one step closer

 

[sreten]

Hi,

I'm a big fan of ported tuned to maximise F-6dB to F-10dB
rather than F-3dB. Tune for a quasi first order roll-off that
maximises use of room gain, and the low port tuning means
you generally have far less low bass power handling issues.

The damped rolloff gives tight and tuneful bass.

rgds, sreten.

 

[alexm84]

Hi,

I'm a big fan of ported tuned to maximise F-6dB to F-10dB
rather than F-3dB. Tune for a quasi first order roll-off that
maximises use of room gain, and the low port tuning means
you generally have far less low bass power handling issues.

The damped rolloff gives tight and tuneful bass.

rgds, sreten.

Wow, i didn't realise how little i knew till i read that paragraph.
I don't suppose you can suggest one of the subs from that site to go with? I was thinking the reference 12" but don't know which one to go for? I see they do an 8ohm and 4 ohm one as well as a High Output one.
Would i be right in saying the 4 ohm will be easier to get higher power to from the amp than the 8 ohm? If so, do i go the standard or the HO (high output) one?


Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm

Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm

Dayton Audio RSS315HO-4 12" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 Ohm

 

[sreten]

Hi,

The HO versions tend to have lower Vas and higher
Fs and tend to suit cars in more compact cabinets.

rgds, sreten.

 

[sine143]

if you have the space. the 2 of the 12s (or 2 of the 10s) shouldnt have an issue filling that space. the DVC, not the RSS.

The RSS is better for smaller enclosures, but the DVC is better bang for the buck imo.

 

[alexm84]

Yeah i think i'll go with 2 12's. Which dual voice coil one do you mean? The HO version? or this ultimax Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohm Per Coil

 

[chris661]

Link's broken, but the Ultimax has been very well reviewed in the 'States.

Try searching for Dayton Ultimax Forum and see what comes up - chances are you'll get some discussion/comparison by people that've tried both.

Chris

 

[alexm84]

I see the ultimax are a dual 2 ohm voice coil. So i could wire these into a 4 ohm load?

The crown XLS1500 i am looking at 525W into 4 ohm per channel if running as a 2 ch.
That should be plenty for these subs?

So looks like i need to decide on the reference 4 ohm and the ultimax dual 2 ohm subs depending on enclosure. I'm hoping once i order them i can get some advice on enclosure design,

Would you recommend a sealed or ported enclosure if i am using them under 2 ways? Would the ported end up being too big?

 

[Shadydave]

Many roads

What is too big?
Using 2 drivers in an 11 ft.^3 (311 Liters) TQWT cabinet you can get 15 Hz to 60 Hz @ 112 dB with 500 watts and not require a HP filter to protect the speaker.

You can use the 2 ft.^3 (56.6 liter) cabinet that PE sells with the 12" driver and use the same 500 watts in one speaker to get 112 dB @ 60 Hz, 109 dB @ 34 Hz and - 10 (102) dB @ 22 Hz.
Some would call this a very adequate Subwoofer.
This also does not require a HP filter to protect from over excursion at low frequencies.

However there are a number of alignments that use smaller boxes 4 to 5 ft.^3 and tuned with ports that will get twice as loud with the same 500 watts in one speaker.
These would all require a steep High Pass filter (BW4 at 18 to 20 Hz) to protect the driver from hitting it's stops at lower frequencies.

Do a search, there are numerous designs on this forum (and others)

Dave

 

[alexm84]

What is too big?
Using 2 drivers in an 11 ft.^3 (311 Liters) TQWT cabinet you can get 15 Hz to 60 Hz @ 112 dB with 500 watts total and not require a HP filter to protect the speaker.
In this case the speakers are lightly loaded so distortion is probably fairly low.

You can use the 2 ft.^3 (56.6 liter) cabinet that PE sells with the 12" driver and use the same 500 watts to get 112 dB @ 60 Hz, 109 dB @ 34 Hz and - 10 (102) dB @ 22 Hz.
Some would call this a very adequate Subwoofer.
This also does not require a HP filter to protect from over excursion at low frequencies.

However there are a number of alignments that use smaller boxes 4 to 5 ft.^3 and tuned with ports that will get twice as loud with the same 500 watts.
These would all require a steep High Pass filter (BW4 at 18 to 20 Hz) to protect the driver from hitting it's stops at lower frequencies.

Do a search, there are numerous designs on this forum (and others)

Dave

I want them to sit under the 2 ways which have this enclosure. http://www.seas.no/images/stories/diykits/pdfdataheet/idunn.pdf

I'm guessing i want to keep the tweeter around ear height for my two ways so the box height will be limited and i'll just have to build out the width and depth to get the volume i need.

I am reading up now on boxes. Looks like a hell of a lot to learn.

I think i have decided on the reference sub over the ultimax after reading some build threads and reviews. The HF i read is more "musical" but the HO can go in a much smaller enclosure.


Other option is drop to dual 10" subs. Looks like the ported box size drops from 4.54ft to 1.68ft. I may do this. Before my klipsch died, i only had a single 10" sub, so a pair of 10's receiving double the power each should be ample for my needs.... i think 🙁

I'm still struggling to find a good site that starts with the basics for box design. I dont suppose you have any links on where to start off?

 

[Shadydave]

For anyone interested in a middle of the road enclosure for the Ultimax 12-22 here is a ported 4 cu. ft. box.
4 ft. internal after braces and the volume taken up by the speaker.
A 5" diameter port, 29.4" long and a little stuffing glued to the walls.
This port may require a 90 to fit in the box, a shelf port may be better.
I'll let the sim do the talking.

UM-12_4 ft_20 Hz .PNG

UM-12_4 ft_20 Hz Fb.PNG

UM-12_4 ft_LR2 15 Hz High Pass.PNG

LR2 15Hz HP_LR8 100 Hz LP.PNG

This should be a good sounding, middle of the road sub that is easy to build.
It does require a High Pass filter, and a low pass wouldn't hurt.
I strongly suggest anyone wanting to build a sub to learn Hornresponse.
This is DIY after all.

Dave

 

[alexm84]

OK, i've made a decision, I'm going to keep it simple and get 2 of the reference HF 12" subs and build them as per Zaph Audio's build into a sealed box. But instead of plate amps i'll run the crown external.

The more i read, the more i realise i have no idea about designing boxes/ports etc so figure i'll follow Zaph's setup to start with and can work on building a different enclosure as i learn what im doing.

This is one of the build threads i found. Can get all the build plans from Zaph's site which suits me to a tee for my current knowledge level.
"The Raven" DIY 12" Subwoofer - Blu-ray Forum

Hopefully i learn the art of design and winisd quickly to start playing around down the track 🙂

 

[mrgreenjeans]

I was just modeling the Dayton RSS315HF-4 for use in my Jeep. Taking cabin gain into account, a box about 1.5cu ft will yield an F3 of 40ish. I prefer sealed boxes, especially in a car install. The EBP(efficiency bandwidth product) is Fs/Qes. In this case its 53. Below 50 favor a sealed woofer. 50 to 90 either sealed or ported, and ported only above 90. This driver is can work in either, but is so close to 50 that I'd go with sealed. If your going with a ported box, what sreten has to say sounds right. But the determining factor for me would be group delay. Badly aligned ported boxes have it, sealed boxed don't. I read recently that GD is only inaudible as long as the delay isn't too long and to further complicate things, GD gets more audible the lower you go in frequency.(pretty sure) Not trying to trip you up here, but I think this also should be a consideration when tuning your ported box. If you can get the Seas relatively cheaper owing to shipping costs I'd take the Seas. Unless you're constantly building diy speakers, why not get the better driver?

 

[kiwijunglist]

Hey Alex. I'm from nz. I was looking at getting an 18 or 15" dayton ultimax but shipping and gst costs too high. In the end i bought 4x jbl gto 1514 drivers. This ended up costing almost the same as 1x ultimax. Maybe you can check out the local price in aus.

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