Greetings,
I'm a long time lurker and with the big help of another DIYAudio member I am getting a LOT of help building an F5T amp with the volume control and source selector built into the amp as well.
Ever since I joined the forum and finding the Pass Labs section Nelson Pass's amp designed have intrigued me and became a thing of great desire.
I'm not an electronics guy so the other forum member is going to actually do the build for me. I know I'm wimping out by not taking the task on myself but I now live in a small apartment and don't have the room to setup a work area to do the build either. Next after I buy my last house and sell off a few other components of other my hobbies (guns and motorcycles and motorcycles) I will build one...but for now this is the way it is.
Currently my audio collection includes a tube amp system consisting of a VTA ST-120 and Cary SLP03 and also a Yamaha CA-2010. I also have a few turntables and CD players, tuners, receivers and speakers.
OK ...now to the point.
Compared to the other amplification components I have can someone tell me how the sound quality is for an F5T? How about the other amp designs such as the Aleph or the F4? Are they sonically as good as Nelson Pass's consumer components that are considerably more expensive and higher in power? I understand that the additional power does not in itself improve sound quality but rather it just gives the amp more headroom that allows the amp to have a wider dynamic range and ability to be turned up louder.
Compared to other consumer brands how are they? I imagine it also depends on the choice of components chosen as well as maybe the actual quality of the build.
You input put is appreciated. Thank you. ...Blake
I'm a long time lurker and with the big help of another DIYAudio member I am getting a LOT of help building an F5T amp with the volume control and source selector built into the amp as well.
Ever since I joined the forum and finding the Pass Labs section Nelson Pass's amp designed have intrigued me and became a thing of great desire.
I'm not an electronics guy so the other forum member is going to actually do the build for me. I know I'm wimping out by not taking the task on myself but I now live in a small apartment and don't have the room to setup a work area to do the build either. Next after I buy my last house and sell off a few other components of other my hobbies (guns and motorcycles and motorcycles) I will build one...but for now this is the way it is.
Currently my audio collection includes a tube amp system consisting of a VTA ST-120 and Cary SLP03 and also a Yamaha CA-2010. I also have a few turntables and CD players, tuners, receivers and speakers.
OK ...now to the point.
Compared to the other amplification components I have can someone tell me how the sound quality is for an F5T? How about the other amp designs such as the Aleph or the F4? Are they sonically as good as Nelson Pass's consumer components that are considerably more expensive and higher in power? I understand that the additional power does not in itself improve sound quality but rather it just gives the amp more headroom that allows the amp to have a wider dynamic range and ability to be turned up louder.
Compared to other consumer brands how are they? I imagine it also depends on the choice of components chosen as well as maybe the actual quality of the build.
You input put is appreciated. Thank you. ...Blake
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naah
sissy amps
go to 6moon and read all FW and PL tests
say XA30.8 , then go backwards
they're mostly odes , with special distinctive approach to audio and everything by Srajan
sissy amps
go to 6moon and read all FW and PL tests
say XA30.8 , then go backwards
they're mostly odes , with special distinctive approach to audio and everything by Srajan
Well.
My humble opinion is...
I had in past build fully balanced F4's, and past 4 years i build f5 and AlephJ
For my ears (and the boy at now 17 with good ears) the AlephJ is best at all kind of music.
F5 is best for "good recordings aka DireStraits and like)
F4 demands a really hot preamp, but then its the best (noise and stuff not mentioned here with this combe, but for me, it was a little problem)
BUT this is religion 🙂...
Build all of them, and compare yourself 😀
RG; Jesper
My humble opinion is...
I had in past build fully balanced F4's, and past 4 years i build f5 and AlephJ
For my ears (and the boy at now 17 with good ears) the AlephJ is best at all kind of music.
F5 is best for "good recordings aka DireStraits and like)
F4 demands a really hot preamp, but then its the best (noise and stuff not mentioned here with this combe, but for me, it was a little problem)
BUT this is religion 🙂...
Build all of them, and compare yourself 😀
RG; Jesper
My musical tastes range from the bands I grew up with in the late 60's and 70's so that would be The Beatles, Led Zepplin and Pink Floyd to the blues bands I learned to play drums with in the 80's which include Muddy Waters, B. B. King, Albert King, and Buddy Guy
to Jazz including Fusion to Techno Electronica like Kraftwerk, Orbital, FSOL and Underworld to Classical. I've recently acquired new 180 gram LP's of the Jazz greats like Davis, Brubeck, Mingus and Monk which I think sound perfect on my tube system.
I never to put the Pass Amp that I will be acquiring in the same sonic quality level as my Yamaha. I was just using that as a system to use for comparison...even if the Yamaha is considered to lower than whale manure.
to Jazz including Fusion to Techno Electronica like Kraftwerk, Orbital, FSOL and Underworld to Classical. I've recently acquired new 180 gram LP's of the Jazz greats like Davis, Brubeck, Mingus and Monk which I think sound perfect on my tube system.
I never to put the Pass Amp that I will be acquiring in the same sonic quality level as my Yamaha. I was just using that as a system to use for comparison...even if the Yamaha is considered to lower than whale manure.
I have built F5 and F4 with Aikido tube preamp. Both sounded quite good (at least I thought of) until I built Symasym or DOGC-H amplifier which does everything better at lower heat, weight and with more power.
Firstwatt series amplifiers are low power amps, not with the best specs and most of them needs carefully chosen loudspeakers. Most of them color the sound or can´t handle complex music with enough resolution. But there are two amps from FW which I would recommend, if you´ve got right speakers - J2 and Aleph J.
I would recommend you to build DOGC-H amp, it will cost less, weight much less and generate much less heat than F5T. It is also simple amplifier to build and more powerful.
I am not trying bashing FW amps, but they are more kitchen-table playground amps to explore different ideas with varying technical performance, which is mostly mediocre.
Firstwatt series amplifiers are low power amps, not with the best specs and most of them needs carefully chosen loudspeakers. Most of them color the sound or can´t handle complex music with enough resolution. But there are two amps from FW which I would recommend, if you´ve got right speakers - J2 and Aleph J.
I would recommend you to build DOGC-H amp, it will cost less, weight much less and generate much less heat than F5T. It is also simple amplifier to build and more powerful.
I am not trying bashing FW amps, but they are more kitchen-table playground amps to explore different ideas with varying technical performance, which is mostly mediocre.
it's all in the speaker load, like you said FW amps are lowish gain/power so they are not meant for the most commercial speakers. F5T, or F5X, should however kick some @%# even in the power hungry speakers. smaller Alephs will lack the bottom but excell at vocals, especially with "simpler" music and when running hot with a lot of bias. there is tons of testimonials around the forum to different amps' great performance with the right speakers. my next undertaking will be BA-3B (with F4s in the output stage).
Manure whale is much more valuable than any hiend amp.
If you like rock and always listens it, an amplifier of this forum all you will provide is warm in winter and an increase in electricity bill.
If you like listening to music like jazz or chamber music, welcome to the world of class A, Iykkedk has answered you clearly since he has built different types of amplifiers Pass World.
If you like rock and always listens it, an amplifier of this forum all you will provide is warm in winter and an increase in electricity bill.
If you like listening to music like jazz or chamber music, welcome to the world of class A, Iykkedk has answered you clearly since he has built different types of amplifiers Pass World.
IME, it's not only what type of music one listens to and what speaker he has - very important is the fact how loud you listen to the music. In low level room listening sessions (SPL of about 60dB) AB class amps mentioned by kacernator are totally untollerable for me - transient distortions and the presence of high order odd harmonics are giving me a headache after about half an hour (I didn't have that problem 10 or 20 years ago but now, in my late 40's it is so).
SuSy topology cures this pain nicely but it raises complexity (two amps per channel are needed).
When it comes to FW designs, my personal favorite, by a large margin, is F5 made with 3 pairs of k2013/j313 instead of HEXFETS in the output stage. It does perfectly everything that I need, but not everybody will be sastisfied with 20W of power per channel, non-negligible heat and required heatsink dimmensions...
SuSy topology cures this pain nicely but it raises complexity (two amps per channel are needed).
When it comes to FW designs, my personal favorite, by a large margin, is F5 made with 3 pairs of k2013/j313 instead of HEXFETS in the output stage. It does perfectly everything that I need, but not everybody will be sastisfied with 20W of power per channel, non-negligible heat and required heatsink dimmensions...
Dynamic range of Bruckner or Mahler(90dB?) is not the same of Miles Davis. A chord of Opera like Nabuco could stress any amp and the transients could be monsters. Maybe 20watt depending of the SPL of the speaker system. I to short. Recently in a CSX1 a friend of me, he measured transient peaks of 60watts with a rate power no more of 15. F5T in biamp with a F3 for midrange and treble?
Best Regards Gentlemen
Best Regards Gentlemen
If you compare (Pass) DIY and a commercial amp at the same costs, the DIY amp is by far the winner.
Don't forget the golden electronics rule of consumer tech - 1/8 of the street price is parts cost, another 1/8 is assembly cost. A commercial 1000$ amp has roughly ~130 $ worth of parts inside.
If you compare (Pass) DIY with the big guys (Krell, Mark Levinson etc), there will not be too many people around here that can help you with that.
It's a DIY forum after all 😉
EDIT: by the way - if you want an affordable way to taste Nelson's commercial amps, try to get one of the old Threshold amps. With a few exceptions, they can be had for the amount of money you would need to build them yourself - I would call that very cheap! That also applies to the preamps.
Just take care somebody brings in particular the ClassA heaters back to their old glory by servicing them.
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