PCB Layout & Gerber Generation for Mac OSX

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#1
PCB Layout & Gerber Generation for Mac OSX

Hey Folks,

So far I have been drawing all my PCB layouts in a regular illustration program, generating film negatives, exposing, etching, drilling, etc... Now I want to make multiples of a board design, and I'm realizing that the board houses don't particularly agree with my approach. So, I'm looking into redrawing these circuits in a proper PCB layout program, generating gerber files, etc.

The boards are pretty simple -- mostly used for switching low-level signals, and for my Lundahls. I would like plate-through holes, silk-screening and a solder mask, and even one-sided would suffice. I'm looking for the simplest approach. Also, I'm running Mac OSX, and although I can get Virtual PC, I would prefer a native Mac app.

Can anyone make any suggestions? (I realize this topic has beeen covered briefly about two years ago, but both threads got a bit off topic and... well, 2 years is a long time in the computer world!)

Thanks in advance.

-RobRoy

Any comments on the following would be greaty appreciated:

McCad - http://www.mccad.com/

Osmond - http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html

PCB Warrior - http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/2231
 
#3
Hmm, I've been trying to get Vectoworks 10 to work as a schematic capture tool for Osmond, but so far, no dice. The howto is described on the Osmond site, but it says it has only been tested up to VW9, and should work with later versions...

Looks like I'll have to stick with Virtual PC for the time being. Which when maximised, is actually quite fast and useable, but my app freezes and crashes just tha same as on a PC.

One thing that has crossed my mind is trying to run the Linux version of Eagle under an X-windows session on Darwin (OS-X's "chassis"). There are tools to run X sessions that look like Aqua.
Of course there's a possibility someone (clever) could port Eagle.

I'm looking for Schematic capture to netlist, PCB layout, and output to Gerber and Printer.

I don't need Simulation, Stock lists, or Auto routing.

Glad the debate is open again...
 
#5
Well I've just noticed the title of this post, and it doesn't mention "Schematic". Since many of the complexities of these app's are caused by the schematic section and it's interaction with the layout section, maybe one of those simpler programs will do.

The thing that irritates me most abour these programs is the amount of time that is needed in drawing your own components. None is well equipped for audio (or video) electronic. On a new project, I often spend more time drawing and checking components than doing the PCB.
This is the biggest problem (bigger than learning), about switching apps.
 
#6
Hi Folks,

Funny enough, concerning user interface and ease of use, the best schematic drawing programs were written for the Mac!

I’ve seen lots and lots of programs for the Mac and PC as well as for Unix. For schematic entry the program that stands outs the rest is DesignWorks Professional from Capilano Computing. It has very powerful scripting capabilities and a logical and intuitive user interface. I am using it on a 68K Mac emulator on the PC as a front end for Ultiboard at the moment. (I wouldn’t recommend Ultiboard but I have to live with it at the moment)

Indeed the best program for schematic+PCB for the Mac was undoubtedly RUN. It’s a pity it didn’t survive. A good PCB program for the Mac is still Douglas CADCAM but it is not as good as RUN.

Some 10 years ago I bought McCad from Vamp. Although I paid $15K those days for it (actually my boss paid 😉 ) I got no support at all. It was buggy with loads of bombs and very difficult to learn. Really rubbish! Do yourself a favour and skip it please. It is somewhat strange McCad still exist and RUN is no more :bawling:

RobRoy,

If you can manage to convert your current design to a gif or bmp bitmap image then I think this (PC) program will be of help to you, provided you have access to a PC or have a PC emulator for your Mac:

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/sprint-layout.html

It is a simple plain 2 layer PCB drawing program. Very easy to use and quick to learn and it outputs Gerber and Excellon files for around EU 40,- You can use a .gif or .bmp image in the background as a template and draw your actual design on top of it. This is also a good and affordable PCB program for those looking for a simple PCB program that produces neat PCB boards. For DIY you hardly need more.

Cheers 😉
 
#9
Hmm,

Just looked a bit into Osmond - http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html

Looks very interesting. Thanks for that link RobRoy. Unfortunately it runs on mininmal System 8.6 for a 68K Mac. Unfortunately the highest OS that runs stable on the Basilisk Mac emulator is System 7.5. Any suggestions? And uhm no, I have no real Mac at work at the moment :bawling:

John, if you are looking for a schematic front end, look at the Capilano stuff. Although a bit expensive for DIY, it is really worth the money IMHO. You can make any component/netlist file for almost any PCB program with it. It took me a few hours to write a script for the somewhat archaic Ultiboard format.

Cheers 😉
 
#11
peranders said:
Wouldn't it be great if they removed the dongle and made this program to freeware! It's a 15 KUSD program!
Click to expand...

Hi Per,

That would be great! 🙂 Even if they make it available as shareware for a few hundred bucks it would be great.

Since you are a legal user of it, you are the first to discus it with the RUN guys. Good luck...

😉
 
#12
I will try to get in contact with Mr. Spivey (which I should have done long time ago) because:

1 I have 12 years of pcb layouts and I don't want to migrate to www.Bartels.de (they have translation software) because their software looks like 🤐 :yikes: :yuck: 🤐

2 I want to get rid of the dongle so I can use RUN on non-ADB Macs and hopefully in Classic environment as long as necessary.

3 Share or freeware had been :up:

I'm thinking of Protel. Opinions?
 
#14
peranders said:
I'm thinking of Protel. Opinions?
Click to expand...

Protel and PADS (from Mentor) are huge expensive :yikes: In that case I would prefer PADS. At the moment I am looking into WinBoard from http://www.ivex.com/ Looks as powerful for much less money.

But after all, all those MS-Win programs don’t look very encouraging to use. Nearly all have that DOS text based flavour :bawling: So I will stick to Ultiboard for the moment.

😉
 
#15
Thanks to all who contributed here... After much consideration (including compiling Unix apps, researching cheap PC alternatives & accompanying software, playing around with Douglas, etc.) I've decided to use the wonderful OSMOND_X.

As I said earlier, my needs are pretty simple. Osmond offers way more than I need, but not at the expense of simplicity and ease of use. The tutorial and reference manual are very well written, the program is intuitive, and there's even a Yahoo user's group! I'm sold, especially on the price! (It's free!)

I'm excited to finally have plate-through holes, a solder mask, silk screen, two or more layers, and perfect drilling of hole size and placement. These are all things that I just could not do accurately, if at all, by etching the boards at home. And with dkemppai's tip on www.eprotos.com these things should be good and inexpensive.

I'll post a pic of the final board when I get it back from the fabricators. (I still have to design it, so it will be a bit of time yet.)

Thanks again, fellow D.I.Y.ers.

-RobRoy
 
#16
Mac OS PCB design tools

I stumbled across this thread while searching for something else. I have read all of the comments and have to laugh. I have used the McCAD products on Macintosh for about 12 years now and produced hundreds of designs. Of all the tools I have used to date ( an they include early RUN, Protel, OrCAD, PCAD... yes I use a PC as well) McCAD is the best for getting most of my jobs done quickly. Note that I didn't say all, but probably 98%. The comment about the lack of support, baffles me somewhat since I have never had a problem getting answers from their tech support people when I call. After hour emails are usually responded to the next day. Compared to some of these other companies they have been great.

Yes, in the early days there may have been some issues, but those have long since been resolved when better development tools for the Mac came along. The last update I got for PCAD (original seat license cost $30000 USD) was about ten years ago, it cost a fortune and came with a list of about 150 Known issues and things to avoid doing; one of which was reported to wipe your hardrive clean. And they called it a release version. I have NEVER had that kind of issue with the McCAD products. In fact should you discover a problem and report it to them, they usually will have a patch within 12-48 hrs ready to download from their web-site. No.. I have to say the support is one of McCAD's best features and strengths.

I still have an early copy of RUN which I tried to use many years ago. It had problems as well. That copy cost a bunch of money and I never did manage to produce a final result. At that time support was not good and the instruction manual suffered from translationitis. I gave up on it and tried to return the product but was unable to reach the local rep. That was a bad burn and left a very sour taste.

I have tried a lot of the FREEWARE (I too would like to save money) but I guess I am not that good of a software geek. I have downloaded and built and tried to build a number of these applications. Some I succeeded other were a bust. On the whole what I got would not allow me to make my living at it.. McCAD is relatively complete and it just works... Yes they do charge for it, but as one of my clients once said to me " when your time is not worth much , you can afford to waste it!" I have to agree. But that doesn't stop me from hope that some day one of these FREEWAREs will actually do the job...

By the way I know this sounds like a ringing endorsement of McCAD, but there are things that its not perfect at either. It needs improvement in a number of areas... Things I will deal with at another time.


BTW I have owned and have used the following software tools:
Macintosh:
McCAD EDS
McCAD GView
McCAD Trailblazer
McCAD Simplus
DesignWorks
Douglas
Osmond
RUN

MSWindows:
PCAD
Protel
OrCAD
PADS
Massteck

Unfotunately only my McCAD Stuff is current.. I just wanted to balance the view a bit..
 
#18
One more thought on Mac PCBs

One last thought did occur to me. In one of the earlier comments someone was lamenting what happened to RUN..and why some of these other companies were still around and RUN was not.

That should be self evidenticiary. Its hard enough being in business; but to survive 23+ years in this business does not usually happen without a good reason. The companies that are still in business have to have products that do the job and they continue to support those products. If they didn't they would be gone just like RUN and the others who are no longer in business.

Cheers...
 
#19
Eagle

For Anechoic

I forgot to mention Eagle. Its more prvalent on the Windows side of things. A lot of people use it because there is a free version floating around the web. The Mac version, at least the version, I tried a few years back did not at that time run under the native mac os. I think it required you to run under Unix shell. Don't remember all the details. My problem with it was that I didn't find it all that intuitive. It also tended to terminate on me alot. The newer versions may be better. I just didn't like the interface..
 
#20
eagle

yeah it runs in X-11 (like GIMP)
so the interface is rather clunky and bad
but I comitted to learning it since it is the MS Word of the pcb layout world
and although I've begged expresspcb.com to port their app to OS X and Linux I'm not holding my breath
so I'm curious to check out some of the recommended apps for OS X mentioned here...
🙂
 
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